JB's picture in the laundry room

Not to ignore the Ramsey psychodynamics but, as detectives know, people often stage murder scenes not simply to point away from themselves but to make their guilt seem preposterous. 'There's no way the father (mother, sibling, relative, close friend) did that,' or 'If she was smart enough to hide this or that, why would she leave this other thing that puts her right in the frame?'

I think PR and JR covered both ends of the spectrum. Any staged injuries to JBR were meant to seem too shocking for any family member to have inflicted them. When the ransom note mocks JR, it inevitably raises the question of why either parent would be so clumsily obvious. At both extremes -- too awful, too dumb -- the staged elements succeeded in straining credibility and hamstringing a unified theory of the crime. I mean, look at us, 20 years on, still trying to connect all the pieces. That kind of success rarely comes by chance.

So again, not discounting possible subtexts (heh : ) I think the end of the ransom note and a number of other things were "duh" staging. I've wondered whether the Rams were capable of that much misleading detail under the circumstances, then realized I was trying again to understand them by thinking like a normal person - not the best method. Yes, I think the Rams were capable of that kind of spontaneous misleading detail, for two reasons.

In DOI, JR tells of how he began dating Patsy before breaking things off with the soon to be former girlfriend. The two women ended up walking towards John's apartment, Patsy with two soon to be used wine glasses in hand. Patsy avoided an altercation by saying (as John cowered behind the door) that she was a neighbor and was returning the glasses she'd borrowed. John was in awe of Patsy's ability to lie quickly, easily and well. In one way it's a funny story, but given JBR's horrendous injuries and murder, and the fact that the girlfriend Patsy headed off was the same one John had been cheating on his wife with for a year, we have to cross out "light-hearted anecdote" and say what was really going on; namely, that John and Patsy were bonding over shared values of pretense, avoiding blame, skillful lying, and pleasure in deceiving people they disliked or found inferior (This clannishness is to some degree rooted in Southern culture, but with the Rams there is some individual pathology too.)

The second reason I think the Rams were capable of many spontaneous staging details, verbal and visual, is that people whose egos are disordered in the way theirs were/are have a relationship with lying very different from other people's. Think for a moment about someone who sings well. This person has been a member of choirs and vocal groups off and on for years, and so on any singing occasion - around a bonfire on the beach, at holidays, just listening to music - this person can improvise harmonies, virtuality without thinking about it. Threading through the melody and chord structure is second nature. People like the Rams have the same sort of relationship with lying and deceiving. They've been doing it for years, they do it a little all the time; they blend in well. It's instinctive, second nature, no analytic thought required.

As to the pictures in the basement, although the police sound like they're recording the demo tape for How Not To Conduct An Interview, Patsy is marvelously unhelpful.

Meara - I couldn't have put it better myself.

I think the piece of paintbush stick inserted into the tape was part of their staging - designed to lead the investigation away from themselves. (Only an intruder - a pervert, could do such a thing, etc.).

It's why they, so readily, latched onto some of Lou Smit's idiotic theories. A stun gun, for heaven's sake! Nobody in their right mind would think a family member would use a stun gun on a child. Another one of Lou's red herrings, however, it did the trick because there are still people who believe that happened.

The R's probably thought that anyone who believed their fantasy scenario of an intruder killing their daughter must be nuts. And Lou Smit would have been at the top of their list - under the heading 'Useful idiots'
 
Thanks Cranberry. Good catch. I wrote from memory and appreciate your quoting from the original because you're right; the difference between "cool as a cucumber" and "smooth as a cucumber" is telling (I remember now recoiling the first time I read that phrase and thinking he made it sound kinky, somehow...... which I guess says something not good about one of us.....!).



Miz A, thank you. The paintbrush is a good example and, sadly, "useful idiot" belongs in the discussion. The fact that some people, ignoring reason and evidence, still believe a stun gun was used demonstrates how strong denial can be in the face of something as abhorrent as filicide, and how denial and staging work synergistically. The friends who gathered at the house that morning observed first hand what we've only read about - Patsy in the same outfit, the weird behavior, the way John + Patsy avoided each other, the Patsy- sounding ransom note, the indifference to not hearing from the kidnappers, etc. - and for a long time still found it easier to believe in an intruder than to accept that everything pointed to the family. And all of that despite knowing the family dynamics were skewed around JBR - so skewed that they had planned an intervention!
 
Good point about the Whites and the Fernies, Meara - despite everything they saw that morning, they still wanted to believe their friends did not do such a heinous thing. But it didn't last past the funeral with the Whites, which makes sense - FW saw more than anyone that day. But even the Fernies didn't stick by them forever. Barb aired various concerns to police in January 1998 and according to Kolar, "the Fernies indicated that they severed their contact with the family following their observation of that [misleading ad about the "broken lock" the Rams put in the paper]." So: those closest to the action were not fooled.

And who DID stand by the Ramseys? Susan and Glen Stine, supposedly not at all close to the Ramseys prior to the murder. Susan aka "Patsy's Pitbull" seemed to be slavishly devoted - why? Because she looked up to Patsy? Pam Archuleta, who wrote a book about her experiences with the Ramseys as the wife of their pilot, certainly did. It comes through in every line. Patsy was the classy, rich, sophisticated woman Pam wanted to be and she clearly felt that she was blessed for a woman like Patsy to show friendship to a mere "pilot's wife" (as she repeatedly refers to herself in the book). Even Pam expresses some doubts about their innocence but keeps reminding herself - these are good, Christian people, they couldn't be involved!

Linda McLean, Patsy's old coach? What does she know? I mean she wrote a book about her great memories with Patsy but what does she really know about the murder? Nothing. What does Crazy Aunt Pam know? I'd guess nothing as well. I find all that pretty telling.
 
I've also been trying to figure out what the Fernies and the Stines knew. Maybe the Stines had heard the old saying about keeping your enemies close to you. They could have been worried that they might also get 'thrown under the bus' if they spoke to the cops and let slip something that might go against the R's.

The Fernies - they severed all ties with the R's. PR said she didn't know why.

Something that always seemed a bit strange to me was that the Fernies (one of them I can't remember which one it was) stated they read the ransom note through the door to the butler's pantry. This is when the note was on the floor. Surely the note would have been sideways to the door? Why not simply open the door, come in and read the note?

There seem to have been a lot of contortions going on that day - Patsy managing to jump over the steps (or maybe she slid down the handrail?) rather than simply picking up the notes off the steps, or kicking them aside, as I would have done. At that time they were just pieces of paper (she didn't know it was a 'ransom note') so didn't need to be overly careful with them. Patsy stated the kids often used to leave stuff on the steps.
 
I've also been trying to figure out what the Fernies and the Stines knew. Maybe the Stines had heard the old saying about keeping your enemies close to you. They could have been worried that they might also get 'thrown under the bus' if they spoke to the cops and let slip something that might go against the R's.

The Fernies - they severed all ties with the R's. PR said she didn't know why.

Something that always seemed a bit strange to me was that the Fernies (one of them I can't remember which one it was) stated they read the ransom note through the door to the butler's pantry. This is when the note was on the floor. Surely the note would have been sideways to the door? Why not simply open the door, come in and read the note?

There seem to have been a lot of contortions going on that day - Patsy managing to jump over the steps (or maybe she slid down the handrail?) rather than simply picking up the notes off the steps, or kicking them aside, as I would have done. At that time they were just pieces of paper (she didn't know it was a 'ransom note') so didn't need to be overly careful with them. Patsy stated the kids often used to leave stuff on the steps.
From PMPT, ​"Fernie parked his car in the alley behind the Ramseys' house and ran to the patio door on the south side, which he always used. It was locked. When he looked through the glass-paneled door, the lights were on and he could see some papers lying on the wooden floor. They were not facing him, but from where he stood, he could read the first few lines of one page. That was all he needed. He understood immediately that JonBenet had been kidnapped. Once inside the house he read the entire ransom note...."
 
Am I right in thinking that later that morning JR told one of the police officers that the butler's door was open?
 
I think John's story was that later he was told the butler's door was open but clearly it wasn't since Fernie couldn't get in that way. I don't recall where but I think he said that was the door he usually came in. [edit: DUH it was just in the PMPT quote posted above. Oops.] IIRC the story was that later in the day the door was opened by police. Whether JR truly thought the door was open that morning (doubt it, he told officers he checked all the doors) or was spinning some misinformation that was conveniently out in the ether (probably), I'm not sure.

It always struck me as odd that Fernie was able to read the note through the door, presumably upside down. But I don't know why he'd lie about it either. He said the same thing under oath, along with the door being locked:
http://www.acandyrose.com/06132001fernietestimony.htm


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I think John's story was that later he was told the butler's door was open but clearly it wasn't since Fernie couldn't get in that way. I don't recall where but I think he said that was the door he usually came in. [edit: DUH it was just in the PMPT quote posted above. Oops.] IIRC the story was that later in the day the door was opened by police. Whether JR truly thought the door was open that morning (doubt it, he told officers he checked all the doors) or was spinning some misinformation that was conveniently out in the ether (probably), I'm not sure.

It always struck me as odd that Fernie was able to read the note through the door, presumably upside down. But I don't know why he'd lie about it either. He said the same thing under oath, along with the door being locked:
http://www.acandyrose.com/06132001fernietestimony.htm


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The strangest part about it for me is that the police got there at 5:59. Presumably it would take Fernie about 10 minutes to drive there and 5 minutes to throw some clothes on. (or the other way around!), but 15 minutes in total. I can't imagine why the note would still be on the floor after the police got there, they'd want to look at it immediately.

Did Patsy call Fernie before she called the police, and did he get there at roughly the same time as the police?
 
I think John's story was that later he was told the butler's door was open but clearly it wasn't since Fernie couldn't get in that way. I don't recall where but I think he said that was the door he usually came in. [edit: DUH it was just in the PMPT quote posted above. Oops.] IIRC the story was that later in the day the door was opened by police. Whether JR truly thought the door was open that morning (doubt it, he told officers he checked all the doors) or was spinning some misinformation that was conveniently out in the ether (probably), I'm not sure.

It always struck me as odd that Fernie was able to read the note through the door, presumably upside down. But I don't know why he'd lie about it either. He said the same thing under oath, along with the door being locked:
http://www.acandyrose.com/06132001fernietestimony.htm

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Oh, DrollFF, I have every confidence that you would've been able to read that ransom novel even if it was upside-down or sideways. Just to see the first words - "Listen carefully!", and then the $118K in the next paragraph would have probably jumped out at you, I think.

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The strangest part about it for me is that the police got there at 5:59. Presumably it would take Fernie about 10 minutes to drive there and 5 minutes to throw some clothes on. (or the other way around!), but 15 minutes in total. I can't imagine why the note would still be on the floor after the police got there, they'd want to look at it immediately.

Did Patsy call Fernie before she called the police, and did he get there at roughly the same time as the police?
I wondered about it being on the floor that late too.
Supposedly Patsy called her friends after 911, which I believe is true but we really only have Patsy's word for it.
According to the deposition at the link, FW and PW were there along with the police when he arrived, then his wife got there (they came separately?) and then the Reverend.



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Another thing about John Fernie, I recall him defending the Ramseys in the press early on by disputing the police report saying no footprints were found around the house, saying his would have been there. I wondered why he would say that because duh, they didn't see his footprints because they looked before he arrived! He knew the police got there first. Sounds like he was in some deep denial.

I couldn't find that article but while I was looking for it I found this old post from local reporter Frank Coffman about Fernie and the open door. Again, what's up with this? He believed and told people that the door was open but in PMPT and his depo he admits the door was locked and he had to go around to the front when he first got there.
There was NO open door at the Ramseys' house on the morning of Dec. 26, 1996. John Ramsey himself found all the doors closed and locked that morning. Here are the FACTS:
* According to John Ramsey, ALL the doors were LOCKED. John Ramsey told the police that "I looked around the house that morning and... and all the doors were locked and I checked every door on the first floor... and they appeared to be locked." (Thomas, p. 172)
* Sgt. Paul Reichenbach checked all the doors at the Ramsey house in the early morning of Dec. 26, 1996. He found no open doors and no signs of a break-in.
* In June 2001, Linda Arndt testified at her civil trial that there were no signs of a break-in or other identifiable points of entry for an intruder into the Ramsey home.
* Patsy Ramsey told a guest at the memorial service on Dec. 29, 1996 that all the doors were closed and locked.
* Police chief Mark Beckner told me that the northside door (the so-called "butler's pantry door") was opened by a crime scene technician early that morining. The police technicians went to work at the Ramsey house by 6:50 a.m. on Dec. 26, 1996.
* Lou Smit himself told me a few months ago that he agreed that the "butler's pantry door" was probably left open by a police technician, just as Beckner said.
I have to admit: at one time, I was taken in by the myth of the "open door" because it was reported in a newspaper story and it was touted by others. Since then, I have learned that there were no open or unlocked doors. Neither the police nor John Ramsey found any open doors. The mistaken notion about an "open door" got started after John Fernie noticed that the northside "butler's pantry door" was ajar. Fernie didn't know that the door was left open by a police technician." ( From a Websleuths post by Masked Man dated August 20, 2001)


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Here's the door by the kitchen that John Fernie says he looked through:
jonbenet-ramsey-home05.jpg



Here's the butler's pantry door on the other side of the house:
attachment.php


Have to go to the airport - back when I can --
 
Hmm, thanks Meara, I always forget about the other door. Is the kitchen door actually that dark or is it just the lighting?


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I wondered about it being on the floor that late too.
Supposedly Patsy called her friends after 911, which I believe is true but we really only have Patsy's word for it.
According to the deposition at the link, FW and PW were there along with the police when he arrived, then his wife got there (they came separately?) and then the Reverend.



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Great discussion -- fantastic posts, Meara.

Yes, I've always wondered this also. As Tortoise says above, how did FW get there so quickly? The one thing I always found strange was, PR obviously left the phone off the hook when she made the initial police call -- this is indisputable -- but how long was the phone off the hook exactly? I imagine the police operator stayed on the line until the phone was completely re-hung, right? Meaning, the operator didn't hang up before the phone had been hung-up on the other end. We know she stayed on the line at least for a little bit (you can hear her saying "Patsy?" multiple times), but I wonder if it was ever confirmed how long the phone had been off the hook; and if it was off the hook, how did PR call her friends over so quickly (if she didn't call them before she called police)? I'm sorry, this has probably already been answered.
 
When Patsy first saw the note she said she somehow 'got around it' which would be an almost impossible tast without touching it. There is only one handrail on a spiral stairse, the right hand one, and that was covered with a green garland. She would have needed to hold onto the handrail with BOTH hands and almost jump onto the step below the note.

I have tried this myself and that is how I know how difficult it is. And I didn't have a garland on my staircase at the time.

According to her interview with Haney or Trujillo she ran back upstairs (presumably stepping over the note again?) to check on JBR - (whose bedroom door incidentally was CLOSED - another strange thing about this whole business).

John then came downstairs and the pair of them presumably jumped over the note which was still on the steps because Patsy stated she hadn't picked it up.

I reckon John slid down the handrail and caught Patsy as she jumped. Lol
 
Userid, I was confused about that floorplan as well but the first photo is of the door closest to the staircase. You can see it's next to the study, which kind of juts out of the house in a semi-circle. I believe the butler door is the one on the other side of the floorplan where it's labeled Lower Hall and there's just a flat wall, like in the second picture. God this house is a nightmare.


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When Patsy first saw the note she said she somehow 'got around it' which would be an almost impossible tast without touching it. There is only one handrail on a spiral stairse, the right hand one, and that was covered with a green garland. She would have needed to hold onto the handrail with BOTH hands and almost jump onto the step below the note.

I have tried this myself and that is how I know how difficult it is. And I didn't have a garland on my staircase at the time.

According to her interview with Haney or Trujillo she ran back upstairs (presumably stepping over the note again?) to check on JBR - (whose bedroom door incidentally was CLOSED - another strange thing about this whole business).

John then came downstairs and the pair of them presumably jumped over the note which was still on the steps because Patsy stated she hadn't picked it up.

I reckon John slid down the handrail and caught Patsy as she jumped. Lol
In a previous life, I lived in a log cabin with a spiral staircase just like the one in chez Ramsey. It went from the basement to the first floor, and on to the second floor. Even the former long-legged mr kanzz who sometimes took two steps going up, never took more than one going down. Not only is it too dangerous, it's just too unwieldy.

IMO, that ransom novella was never on the spiral staircase. She put it on the floor near where she replaced the sharpie. That's why JR was there on his hands and knees reading it and that's why Fernie saw it there.


About the door used by Fernie, the timing, etc. I found this on pbworks:
After 5:59 AM "French himself stated in a Vanity Fair interview that after being greeted by Patsy on arrival, 'John Ramsey directed me through the house and pointed out a three-page handwritten note which was laid on the wooden floor just west of the kitchen area'."
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682461/December 26

And remember - From PMPT, "Fernie parked his car in the alley behind the Ramseys' house and ran to the patio door on the south side, which he always used. It was locked. When he looked through the glass-paneled door, the lights were on and he could see some papers lying on the wooden floor. They were not facing him, but from where he stood, he could read the first few lines of one page. That was all he needed. He understood immediately that JonBenet had been kidnapped. Once inside the house he read the entire ransom note...."

So, just west of the kitchen area would probably be just under the word "Hall" on this floor plan?
enticing-jonbent-ramsey-floor-plans.jpg
 
When Patsy first saw the note she said she somehow 'got around it' which would be an almost impossible tast without touching it. There is only one handrail on a spiral stairse, the right hand one, and that was covered with a green garland. She would have needed to hold onto the handrail with BOTH hands and almost jump onto the step below the note.

I have tried this myself and that is how I know how difficult it is. And I didn't have a garland on my staircase at the time.

According to her interview with Haney or Trujillo she ran back upstairs (presumably stepping over the note again?) to check on JBR - (whose bedroom door incidentally was CLOSED - another strange thing about this whole business).

John then came downstairs and the pair of them presumably jumped over the note which was still on the steps because Patsy stated she hadn't picked it up.

I reckon John slid down the handrail and caught Patsy as she jumped. Lol

Miz Adventure,
That sounds comical, lets do the hokey cokey says JR. Patently the R's version of events is really fiction, e.g. BR sound asleep as a homicide is unraveling!

Another thing that we cannot verify is if the R's phoned anyone during the staging?

Personally I think they did and were given the green light to stage. This is why their story sounds convincing, plus they probably knew all they had to do was keep BR out of the limelight.

Remember FW says mid afternoon on 12/26/1996 he had JR's legal representatives at his door. This takes forward planning, not least by the legal reps' themselves, so JR had it all sown up before the 911 call.

I could even imagine the R's, alike the Everly Brothers who had a Radio Show on KMA and KFNF in Shenandoah, it started: Hello this is Daddy Everly and here is Little Donnie and Baby Boy Phil to sing you a song,
acting out their 911 call in a similar pseudo dramatic manner.

Hello this is Mommy Ramsey, and little baby JonBenet has gone missing

duh ...

.
.
 
:laughing:Stop it!

When you say maybe they got the green light for the staging....are you saying you think they rang their lawyers as soon as they found JBR's body?
 

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