JLM: Psych Thread - Professional and Non-Professional Opinions/Theories

[psyquestor]

Have you read any biography on him? He detested school, was a loner with few friends, argued with teachers, and failed plenty of test before dropping out, some of his teachers even considered him a dunce!

TH Do you have a link to this information? I had not read this previously.

TIA

***ETA I see this has been previously asked. I guess I'm not alone on this point. ***

 

[ThinkHard]

Would you please provide references to the bio's, failed tests, teachers comments, arguments with teachers, reference to loner, comments about detesting school.

Very interested in seeing this thanks

Sure NO Problem at all.....here's a quick note on him from the history channel

IS IT TRUE THAT EINSTEIN WAS A LOUSY STUDENT?
In some ways, yes. When he was very young, Einstein’s parents worried that he had a learning disability because he was very slow to learn to talk. (He also avoided other children and had extraordinary temper tantrums.) When he started school, he did very well-he was a creative and persistent problem-solver-but he hated the rote, disciplined style of the teachers at his Munich school, and he dropped out when he was 15. Then, when he took the entrance examination for a polytechnic school in Zurich, he flunked. (He passed the math part, but failed the botany, zoology and language sections.) Einstein kept studying and was admitted to the polytechnic institute the following year, but even then he continued to struggle: His professors thought that he was smart but much too pleased with himself, and some doubted that he would graduate. He did, but not by much-which is how the young physicist found himself working in the Swiss Patent Office instead of at a school or university.

http://www.history.com/topics/einsteins-life-facts-and-fiction

And here's another brief clip

Although Einstein is now considered the epitome of genius, in the first two decades of his life, many people thought Einstein was the exact opposite. Right after Einstein was born, relatives were concerned with Einstein's pointy head. Then, when Einstein didn't talk until he was three years old, his parents worried something was wrong with him. Einstein also failed to impress his teachers. From elementary school through college, his teachers and professors thought him lazy, sloppy, and insubordinate. Many of his teachers thought he would never amount to anything.

http://history1900s.about.com/od/people/a/Einstein.htm

But if you would like a recommendation at something full length like a novel, just let me know.

He is also believed to have beeen Autistic by many current professionals, as is Thomas Jefferson. That's all a bit off topic though. So PM if you want actual author/book info.

Clearly JM is nothing like the genius of these men. But school smarts and "out of the box" smarts are two very different things. JM had a LD (IMO). LD does NOT mean dumb. Many people with LD's have above average to even superior IQ's.

Perhaps he learned to use the fact that everyone thought he was dumb, to help hide the likelihood of anyone ever suspecting he even had the intellectual capacity to pull off these acts...

 

[psyquestor]

TH Thank you. The way I read your previous comment, it seemed you were referring to JLM not Albert Einstein. My bad.

 

[Priester]

JM while likely stupid knows exactly what he was doing to these girls

Listen to the Coy Barefoot interview with a forensic Psychologist about how focused these low IQ SKs can get in order to achieve their goals with victims. It 's enlightening.

 

[ThinkHard]

Listen to the Coy Barefoot interview with a forensic Psychologist about how focused these low IQ SKs can get in order to achieve their goals with victims. It 's enlightening.

Despite what most people think, many types of "IQ" tests are highly cultural biased. In addition, it can often be difficult to test the knowledge inside someone head, when the issues with that person effect their ability to process sensory information or verbal output....if you can't understand the question, you can't give an accurate answer. Sometimes its not that people don't know something but in how it is being asked.
And if you have issues with verbal communication, even if you understand the question and know the answer, your ability to articulate this knowledge might effect the score.

Additionally there are many "types" of things being tested for on various IQ tests, such as long-term retrieval, short term memory, processing speed, auditory processing, spatial awareness, comprehensive knowledge, fluid reasoning...

Often with children who have an LD they will show "splintering" skills. Meaning they might lack strengths such as "auditory processing" that make learning in school very difficult. Yet have superior abilities in fluid reasoning....which would aid in say their ability to think of how all the pieces need to come together in order to get away with murder.

Thankfully. Those that do use their "gift" in a highly specialized aspect of intelligence, typically use it for good...not for murder.

Yet free choice is there.

So my point is even if someone has tested and has slightly below average IQ (under 90), it is not a true reflection of how "smart" they really are.

 

[ksj3]

http://www.nbc29.com/story/27289950/reports-of-sexual-assault-up-at-uva

Not sure where sexual assaults at UVA were being discussed, but this seems as appropriate as any other thread. "Reports of Sexual Assault up at UVA" while the U.S. Department of Education is reviewing 42 universities on how they handle reports of sexual assault.

 

[SolverGameChanger]

http://www.nbc29.com/story/27289950/reports-of-sexual-assault-up-at-uva

Not sure where sexual assaults at UVA were being discussed, but this seems as appropriate as any other thread. "Reports of Sexual Assault up at UVA" while the U.S. Department of Education is reviewing 42 universities on how they handle reports of sexual assault.

Take a close look at this picture on this link. Click on the picture for a blow up and let me know what your impressions are.

http://wvir.images.worldnow.com/images/4928575_G.jpg

from this article.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/26669644/past-encounters-with-jesse-matthew-remembered

I believe it is useful to consider JLM's college environment with his football palyer status and young pretty college girls around he might have had become addicted to the girls while there and learn about date rape tactics from the guys or college culture.

Once he left the college, he knew where to go and knew what type to go for most probably from his fine tuned experience. He also knew how to charm certain girls on campus and used some of those lessons as well.

It is the image of the girls around him that draws more questions about what he became accustom to while on Campus and on the football teams.

He cerainly appeared to have developed his tactics well to improve his encounters with the girls.

I would like to hear more about how this first experience on campus would leave an impression and strong desire for the girls for long time and perhaps his frustration of not being able to get what he wanted and then once he got it he had no obvious choice but to prevent from getting caught.

Hopefull more pictures will come out on-line and more stories.

 

[rtjedarling]

from Thinkhard below: Often with children who have an LD they will show "splintering" skills. Meaning they might lack strengths such as "auditory processing" that make learning in school very difficult. Yet have superior abilities in fluid reasoning....which would aid in say their ability to think of how all the pieces need to come together in order to get away with murder.

I have talked with students prior to viewing their IQ scores at times and found they could present as an average kid in talking about school, family, interests in general but then viewed the IQ score and it would be well below average. Sometimes they may be very personable, ambitious, able to work to learn job tasks, yet have learning problems and low IQ. Some may score high in some areas such as spatial IQ but poor verbally and so may have strengths in one area but deficits in others and overall functioning below average or low average. People can have lower overall IQs but still be athletic, or creative, or people oriented, or dedicated workers even picking up job tasks quickly. I've always felt when there is deficit, strengths in other areas will be drawn upon and grow stronger as with deafness or blindness, other areas of the brain become better- better may not be super-duper better but at least stronger so that the person appears to function normally in some areas.

 

[Tink56]

from Thinkhard below: Often with children who have an LD they will show "splintering" skills. Meaning they might lack strengths such as "auditory processing" that make learning in school very difficult. Yet have superior abilities in fluid reasoning....which would aid in say their ability to think of how all the pieces need to come together in order to get away with murder.

I have talked with students prior to viewing their IQ scores at times and found they could present as an average kid in talking about school, family, interests in general but then viewed the IQ score and it would be well below average. Sometimes they may be very personable, ambitious, able to work to learn job tasks, yet have learning problems and low IQ. Some may score high in some areas such as spatial IQ but poor verbally and so may have strengths in one area but deficits in others and overall functioning below average or low average. People can have lower overall IQs but still be athletic, or creative, or people oriented, or dedicated workers even picking up job tasks quickly. I've always felt when there is deficit, strengths in other areas will be drawn upon and grow stronger as with deafness or blindness, other areas of the brain become better- better may not be super-duper better but at least stronger so that the person appears to function normally in some areas.

There is a VERY informative interview between Coy Barefoot and Dr. Jeffrey Fracher in the "Media Links-NO DISCUSSION" thread at the top of the Hannah forum.

http://insidecville.com/city/fracher-nov4/

Two things that Dr. Fracher mentioned that could pertain to JM. One, sexual deviants, who may not score well on IQ tests, tend to be successful rapists, etc., because their desires put them into a state of hyper-focus. Secondly, with a lower IQ they might have what we have called street smarts.

If you haven't listened to the interview it is certainly worth the 40+ minutes it takes to hear.

 

[Tink56]

Listen to the Coy Barefoot interview with a forensic Psychologist about how focused these low IQ SKs can get in order to achieve their goals with victims. It 's enlightening.

WHOOPS! See you mentioned this already....It IS excellent...

 

[ThinkHard]

Take a close look at this picture on this link. Click on the picture for a blow up and let me know what your impressions are.

http://wvir.images.worldnow.com/images/4928575_G.jpg

from this article.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/26669644/past-encounters-with-jesse-matthew-remembered

I believe it is useful to consider JLM's college environment with his football palyer status and young pretty college girls around he might have had become addicted to the girls while there and learn about date rape tactics from the guys or college culture.

Once he left the college, he knew where to go and knew what type to go for most probably from his fine tuned experience. He also knew how to charm certain girls on campus and used some of those lessons as well.

It is the image of the girls around him that draws more questions about what he became accustom to while on Campus and on the football teams.

He cerainly appeared to have developed his tactics well to improve his encounters with the girls.

I would like to hear more about how this first experience on campus would leave an impression and strong desire for the girls for long time and perhaps his frustration of not being able to get what he wanted and then once he got it he had no obvious choice but to prevent from getting caught.

Hopefull more pictures will come out on-line and more stories.

Maybe I'm not understanding. Are you suggesting that JM was absolutely fine growing up, but then just got totally warped by football culture...and that led him to be a SK?

I think your giving football culture alone far too much credit here. I think he was already off, and football culture just gave him somewhat of a green light. But cause it....no way. (IMHO)

 

[SolverGameChanger]

Maybe I'm not understanding. Are you suggesting that JM was absolutely fine growing up, but then just got totally warped by football culture...and that led him to be a SK?

I think your giving football culture alone far too much credit here. I think he was already off, and football culture just gave him somewhat of a green light. But cause it....no way. (IMHO)

I suggest that you read what I have posted as it is. nothing to challenge here but from what you want to get out of it.

 

[ThinkHard]

I suggest that you read what I have posted as it is. nothing to challenge here but from what you want to get out of it.

I read it several times. And I was confused by it. I guess I'm just having trouble following your logic. For starters even in HS he was an athlete, he was popular and well liked, students wore shirts with "we love LJ" on them. He would have been friends with plenty of girls even then.

Additionally he didn't go to a big ten school, he went to one of THE most hardcore Christian schools in the country. Which if anything, in that environment I would think the macho football player flanked by women image, would be HIGHLY discouraged.

Respectfully, I just disagree with you on this issue.

 

[SolVol]

I read it several times. And I was confused by it. I guess I'm just having trouble following your logic. For starters even in HS he was an athlete, he was popular and well liked, students wore shirts with "we love LJ" on them. He would have been friends with plenty of girls even then.

Additionally he didn't go to a big ten school, he went to one of THE most hardcore Christian schools in the country. Which if anything, in that environment I would think the macho football player flanked by women image, would be HIGHLY discouraged.

Respectfully, I just disagree with you on this issue.

ThinkHard, I think it was only Jesse who wore the 'we love LJ' TShirt, not the other students. Do you know for sure?

 

[SolVol]

Take a close look at this picture on this link. Click on the picture for a blow up and let me know what your impressions are.

http://wvir.images.worldnow.com/images/4928575_G.jpg

from this article.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/26669644/past-encounters-with-jesse-matthew-remembered

This is a photo of JLM when he was a taxi driver out on his own giving a ride to several girls who were going to the big fox hunt festival near Charlottesville. I'm not sure he was still with Yellow Cab or Access at that time, but had his own vehicle.

 

[FindHG]

Take a close look at this picture on this link. Click on the picture for a blow up and let me know what your impressions are.

http://wvir.images.worldnow.com/images/4928575_G.jpg

from this article.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/26669644/past-encounters-with-jesse-matthew-remembered

I believe it is useful to consider JLM's college environment with his football palyer status and young pretty college girls around he might have had become addicted to the girls while there and learn about date rape tactics from the guys or college culture.

Once he left the college, he knew where to go and knew what type to go for most probably from his fine tuned experience. He also knew how to charm certain girls on campus and used some of those lessons as well.

It is the image of the girls around him that draws more questions about what he became accustom to while on Campus and on the football teams.

He cerainly appeared to have developed his tactics well to improve his encounters with the girls.

I would like to hear more about how this first experience on campus would leave an impression and strong desire for the girls for long time and perhaps his frustration of not being able to get what he wanted and then once he got it he had no obvious choice but to prevent from getting caught.

Hopefull more pictures will come out on-line and more stories.

Really interesting. There's something in the time-line of the his college days, considering the deep pathology (arm chairing, no expert) that may have developed earlier with violence, sex, dominance, furtiveness, putting on a front and all. Maybe the move away from bad influences or something bad, to avoid 'gangs', then being away at school with fewer controls, he acted out, got stung, got angrier and more violent. I still have a nagging feeling there's stuff that may have happened that's very messed up when he was younger, in term of him hurting people and developing some pathology that equated others' pain with pleasure. He also learned to better hide it, to make excuses, to find space in any vulnerability his victims showed.

 

[SolverGameChanger]

I read it several times. And I was confused by it. I guess I'm just having trouble following your logic. For starters even in HS he was an athlete, he was popular and well liked, students wore shirts with "we love LJ" on them. He would have been friends with plenty of girls even then.

Additionally he didn't go to a big ten school, he went to one of THE most hardcore Christian schools in the country. Which if anything, in that environment I would think the macho football player flanked by women image, would be HIGHLY discouraged.

Respectfully, I just disagree with you on this issue.

There is no defense of what I have posted and no issue that I have made a point at making.

SInce you have decided to make a point I will make a this statement. Please simply tell me if this is factual or not "Christian campus are flawlessly disciplined, and all the boys and girls confine to the standards set by the school. Any activity contrary to this only occurs on Big 10 campuses."

If you decide that I am making a point and decide to disagree, that is OK. Consider the spirit of the message that in the end poses a question about environment and opportunity. There is no specific statement or point to consider so deeply. I am a researcher. They are words loosely placed that point to loosely formed ideas and inspire further exploration.

The picture and article I orginially posted was about UVA student's experience with JLM. I believe the picture is demonstrative of JLM ability to place himself within a group of young college girls whether on his campus as a football player, a cab driver around UVA or, socializing in a bar/club environment.

 

[4MYGUYS]

Take a close look at this picture on this link. Click on the picture for a blow up and let me know what your impressions are.

http://wvir.images.worldnow.com/images/4928575_G.jpg


from this article.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/26669644/past-encounters-with-jesse-matthew-remembered

This is a photo of JLM when he was a taxi driver out on his own giving a ride to several girls who were going to the big fox hunt festival near Charlottesville. I'm not sure he was still with Yellow Cab or Access at that time, but had his own vehicle.

My impression: After reading Dr. Fracher's articles, I'd say he was planning. He has his eyes on the girl with the long blonde hair in the front, and he has plans. I think these girls feel safe because there are 3 of them, but he knows if he can separate them, or give them his cards for "free" rides, he may have opportunity at a later date. Knowing what I know now, I'd say he's in full predator mode. Looking as harmless and innocent as he possibly can, all the while planning. JMO

 

[jbowman55]

My impression: After reading Dr. Fracher's articles, I'd say he was planning. He has his eyes on the girl with the long blonde hair in the front, and he has plans. I think these girls feel safe because there are 3 of them, but he knows if he can separate them, or give them his cards for "free" rides, he may have opportunity at a later date. Knowing what I know now, I'd say he's in full predator mode. Looking as harmless and innocent as he possibly can, all the while planning. JMO

I listened to the Nov 4 radio interview with Dr. Fracher and Coy Barefoot last night via a link I found here at WS. Toward the end of that interview there were a few callers from whom Dr. Fracher took questions and comments. I cannot quote exactly now because I can't listen again to get the exact statement, but one of the callers made a point to mention that some "normal" men have some pretty lascivious thoughts when they see pretty, young girls. He related that personal knowledge to his own daughters and stated that he wanted to make sure his daughters were taught how to stay safe around men.

So after hearing that last night, I look at that pic of JM with those three young ladies and I cannot even bring myself to type out the kind of nastiness that I think he's probably thinking. He knows the stuff he's done in the past; it's his big, bad secret. Just look at him grinning. He knows what it feels like to beat a woman to within an inch of her life, and then violently and, with the abandon of a wild animal, ravage and abuse that woman, in any way he thinks he'd like, for as long as he'd like, regardless of how it feels to her, perhaps even regardless of whether she's alive or dead. He's remembering all this, looking at those girls, and smiling.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying. Those are my impressions of that picture. I hope those three young ladies realize how lucky they are.

All imo.

The only other thing I'd add to that is that, if his environment turned him into what he is today, then some very, very terrible things must have happened to him. I'm still inclined to think that he was born this way, and he's smarter than people give him credit for, in an instinctive, predatory kind of way. I wonder if he was this good an actor when he was six or eight years old. Scary.

 

[southernmimi]

JM could be smart..full of street smarts...or whatever, but the girls he stalked and killed were impaired at the time. His main vantage point was that he waited until they were under the influence of something. Not much sport with those odds. I still think he is...bottom line...just a predator.