John Ramsey: Knots, Knowledge, and Know-how.

[Rain on my Parade]

Burke also said that JonBenet got a dollhouse for Xmas, but she didn't.

icedtea4me,
Oh, but she did.
Go to media links only, post #309.

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Oh, but she did.
Go to media links only, post #309.

I already know there's a dollhouse in her bedroom, but that doesn't mean she received it Xmas 1996. If we went by that logic, then that would mean she received the Beauty and the Beast bed linens for that Xmas too.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I already know there's a dollhouse in her bedroom, but that doesn't mean she received it Xmas 1996. If we went by that logic, then that would mean she received the Beauty and the Beast bed linens for that Xmas too.

icedtea4me,
Why do you suppose BR states JB got this dollhouse for Christmas that year?

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Why do you suppose BR states JB got this dollhouse for Christmas that year?

He stated she got the dollhouse because it was nearly 20 years later and he misremembered a gift she got from a previous Xmas with one she got for Xmas 1996.

 

[fr brown]

I doubt if that device was used for the actual strangulation. Nylon is stretchy and there were 17 useless inches of cord, I believe, between the stick and her neck. Steve Thomas says the cord was like a soft flat shoelace. That 17 inches doesn't include the length of cord looped around the stick. Some of the force used to pull the stick would merely go to compressing those loops against themselves. Keeping in mind that the business end of the device was more like a noose than a garrote, the direction of force would be upward on the single strand of cord and would lift the head/body up more than compress the neck--even if the perpetrator is kneeling on her back and I don't think there's evidence of that.

It would be more efficient to just loop that cord (or some other) around the neck, and once or twice around your hands, then pull in opposite directions more or less parallel to the ground. The "garrote" could be added later as window dressing.

I decided to make a shoelace garrote. I made a loop at the neck end like the Ramsey garrote and placed the cord around a 5lb dumbbell whose "neck" had a thick coating of Model Magic. I tied a simple knot around a dowel, passed it through the loop, and lifted the dumbbell with it. The shoelace instantly tightened all the way around the MM, making a 1/4" furrow on the front, back and sides. So I think the garrote could have been used to do the strangulation. It seemed shockingly efficient (even without all those loops at the stick end).

 

[fr brown]

I decided to make a shoelace garrote. I made a loop at the neck end like the Ramsey garrote and placed the cord around a 5lb dumbbell whose "neck" had a thick coating of Model Magic. I tied a simple knot around a dowel, passed it through the loop, and lifted the dumbbell with it. The shoelace instantly tightened all the way around the MM, making a 1/4" furrow on the front, back and sides. So I think the garrote could have been used to do the strangulation. It seemed shockingly efficient (even without all those loops at the stick end).

It might work well on someone who's unconscious, but if someone is conscious and struggling? The length of cord between neck and stick would place the victim too far from the perpetrator to be controlled.

My device relied on gravity. I don't see a conscious victim lying there meekly.

 

[Bekind89]

There isn't one doubt in my mind that JR did this. I think once PR was diagnosed with cancer he was convinced she would die. Had she not been rich she would have. Once she started going out of state for her chemo is when I think JR began to SA little JBR. He is a situational offender, IMHO.
That night I think he went too far with her and he hurt and frightened her very badly. I think she was crying uncontrollably and he could not calm her. This enraged him , plus the fear of getting caught. He was going to be exposed. JR is a malignant narcissist and a sadistic bully. He is a lie. He hides behind religion. Jmo.
I think JR wrote that RN to scare PR into not calling the police for fear the kidnapper would kill her child. JR had a suitcase in the basement ready for him to carry JBR out of the house claiming he is going to pay the ransom money.
JR threw every single person in his life under the bus, anything to deflect from his guilt. He hired THREE lawyers immediately. One for himself, one for PR, and one for his EX-WIFE. REALLY John? Now just what did she know about you that was so damaging that you deemed it necessary to hired an attorney to keep your ex-wife quite? Maybe trouble with the daughter who was killed in the auto accident? I am only speculating.
Anytime there is SA in a family it is statistically the oldest male in the home.
Never have i thought BR was involved in any way, PR either. JBR was her little mini-me.
PR was getting chemo treatments. She probably had chemo-brain, or cognitive dissonance. She was also medicated. I think JR was gaslighting her.
The RN threatened to behead JBR if the police were called. JR wrote that to frighten PR so she would not call the police. JR needed enough time to get the body out of the house.
But PR called the police anyway. Why? Was she suddenly frightened of John? I think she was at that moment.
PR chose to stay in denial about JT, IMHO. She had to know what he did but blocked it out. Did the money and the lifestyle mean that much to her that she could bury the knowledge of what that man did to her child? She was also afraid of getting arrested for this. JR, ever the insidious manipulater, was giving her a great impression of being the only one defending her, the only person on her side. He acted coldly to her in public, in the interviews they did. He never touched or comforted her once. But he could not leave her because he had to control both her and the narrative he had created.
Insidiously evil, imo.
As far as fibers from PR, that home was just filthy. Even their friends admitted they also had poor hygiene.
All of this is just my worthless speculation and opinion. Once I saw JR clearly, it all fell into place and once you see his guilt you can't unsee it. It is clear, at least to me.
He was trying to book a flight out of Colorado 30 minutes after finding his daughter dead. Consciousness of guilt, imo. Who does that?
Everything he has said and done from throwing accusations on all of his friends, refusing to take a polygraph, refusing to cooperate with investigators, sueing everyone , ect. Only someone with a lot to hide behave the way he has.
Thanks for allowing me to to express my opinion- ok, vent, This case affects me still. He got away with this because of money and it sickens me to my soul. Poor JB deserves justice. She deserved better from her parents. Very heartbreaking and disturbing.

 

[ferretnurse]

There isn't one doubt in my mind that JR did this. I think once PR was diagnosed with cancer he was convinced she would die. Had she not been rich she would have. Once she started going out of state for her chemo is when I think JR began to SA little JBR. He is a situational offender, IMHO.
That night I think he went too far with her and he hurt and frightened her very badly. I think she was crying uncontrollably and he could not calm her. This enraged him , plus the fear of getting caught. He was going to be exposed. JR is a malignant narcissist and a sadistic bully. He is a lie. He hides behind religion. Jmo.
I think JR wrote that RN to scare PR into not calling the police for fear the kidnapper would kill her child. JR had a suitcase in the basement ready for him to carry JBR out of the house claiming he is going to pay the ransom money.
JR threw every single person in his life under the bus, anything to deflect from his guilt. He hired THREE lawyers immediately. One for himself, one for PR, and one for his EX-WIFE. REALLY John? Now just what did she know about you that was so damaging that you deemed it necessary to hired an attorney to keep your ex-wife quite? Maybe trouble with the daughter who was killed in the auto accident? I am only speculating.
Anytime there is SA in a family it is statistically the oldest male in the home.
Never have i thought BR was involved in any way, PR either. JBR was her little mini-me.
PR was getting chemo treatments. She probably had chemo-brain, or cognitive dissonance. She was also medicated. I think JR was gaslighting her.
The RN threatened to behead JBR if the police were called. JR wrote that to frighten PR so she would not call the police. JR needed enough time to get the body out of the house.
But PR called the police anyway. Why? Was she suddenly frightened of John? I think she was at that moment.
PR chose to stay in denial about JT, IMHO. She had to know what he did but blocked it out. Did the money and the lifestyle mean that much to her that she could bury the knowledge of what that man did to her child? She was also afraid of getting arrested for this. JR, ever the insidious manipulater, was giving her a great impression of being the only one defending her, the only person on her side. He acted coldly to her in public, in the interviews they did. He never touched or comforted her once. But he could not leave her because he had to control both her and the narrative he had created.
Insidiously evil, imo.
As far as fibers from PR, that home was just filthy. Even their friends admitted they also had poor hygiene.
All of this is just my worthless speculation and opinion. Once I saw JR clearly, it all fell into place and once you see his guilt you can't unsee it. It is clear, at least to me.
He was trying to book a flight out of Colorado 30 minutes after finding his daughter dead. Consciousness of guilt, imo. Who does that?
Everything he has said and done from throwing accusations on all of his friends, refusing to take a polygraph, refusing to cooperate with investigators, sueing everyone , ect. Only someone with a lot to hide behave the way he has.
Thanks for allowing me to to express my opinion- ok, vent, This case affects me still. He got away with this because of money and it sickens me to my soul. Poor JB deserves justice. She deserved better from her parents. Very heartbreaking and disturbing.

I agree with almost everything you said. The only difference I believe, is that the abuse started more recently, around summer 1996. I read somewhere (Bonita papers, maybe?) that the bedwetting started in the summer of 96. If she was fully potty trained, and regressed at that time, that's a red flag for abuse. RIP, little one. ❤

 

[Rain on my Parade]

1998-07-21: Peter Boyles Radio Show 630KHOW

Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998
Linda Wilcox Interview
LINDA WILCOX: One, I keep hearing a lot of little things, misconceptions, that I wanted to clear up. The other, I personally have a very hard time with the Ramseys going on national television, blatantly lying and not having anyone speak up to contradict what they are saying.

PETER BOYLES: An example?

LINDA WILCOX: An example, when John Ramsey says to the camera, I didn't know she wet the bed, or not very much. I happen to know myself, he walked upstairs, she had wet her bed, I came in on a Monday morning and he said, "could you change her bed? She's wet it again." The thing that strikes me as odd, I knew her between 2 1/2 and 4. During that time, she did wet the bed but it wasn't chronic. It was every now and then. Early on, I mean 2 1/2 year olds always do, I mean it seems like they always have accidents. But, it got progressively worse. I would think that a 6 year old would wet the bed less than a 4 year old or a 2 year old. It actually got worse, it was moderate, she didn't have rubber sheets at that point, a pull-up would hold it. But her and Burke both wet the bed. Burke was 7 years old and he also wet the bed. I didn't think it was odd at the time, because it sometimes runs in families and it's more common in boys. And, their parents were lazy.

PETER BOYLES: Is it true you have knowledge of her bedwetting, prior to her death?

LINDA WILCOX: Prior to her death? Well, she did it for the 2 1/2 years I was there.

PETER BOYLES: Do you have any knowledge of her bedwetting just prior to her death, perhaps the weekend before her death?

LINDA WILCOX: No.


PMPT Page 198-202
Linda Hoffman-Pugh Story

I first met JonBenet when she was in preschool. She was home, like, half a day.

In the summer of "96, JonBenet started wearing those diaper type underpants-Pull-Ups. She even wore them to bed. There was always a wet one in the trash. By the end of the summer, Patsy was trying to get her to do without them. Then JonBenet started wetting the bed again. Almost every day I was there, there was a wet bed. Patsy said she wasn't going to use Pull-Ups again. She just put a plastic cover on the bed. No big deal to her. By the time I'd come in the morning, Patsy would have all the sheets off the bed and in the laundry. JonBenet's white blanket would already be in the dryer. The Ramseys had two washer-dryers-one in the basement and a stackable unit in a closet just outside JonBenet's room.

 

[proust20]

According to the above statement by LHP, JonBenet's white blanket would be placed in the dryer right after a bed-wetting incident. Later, the blanket was found there after the murder. So, one might conclude reasonably that there had been this kind of incident just prior to the killing. Who put the blanket in the dryer? When had it last been laundered?

Tying bed-wetting directly to the crime is somewhat problematic. If JB ate the pineapple around midnight, she could not have been asleep in her bed very long for such an occurrence. Apparently, JB emptied her bladder just outside the WC.

Iced tea works as a diuretic. It seems an inappropriate late night drink for, at least, Burke, who also had toileting issues. An act of defiance by BR, or just more unregulated parenting?

PDI often employs bed-wetting as her motive for homicide. While not impossible, it does not explain the multiple brutalities inflicted on her daughter. The missing size 6s fit into this PDI scenario. And Patsy did know about the size 12s. Perhaps others may disagree, but I do not see BDI being connected essentially to bed-wetting as motive, even as he may have been the redresser. Although, there are his smeared pajamas on her bedroom floor. Unfortunately, we will never know what the kids wore to bed that night. Nor, if Patsy ever undressed after the Whites' party.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The one thing I have always felt for certain, Burke couldn't have carried a limp Jon Benet down to the basement, to that back room at age 9. He was not a big kid. And if it was the flashlight, over the head after stealing pineapple from Burke's bowl, that would have occurred in the dining room, not in the basement. How did she get there?

Use Burkes own words. "Someone took her down to the basement" Note, he did not say carried.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

That’s not all he said:
Bonita Papers on Burke Ramsey's Interview with Dr. Suzanne Bernard,Excerpt

Dr. Bernhard asked what he thought happened to his sister. Burke, showing the first signs of irritation during the interview, responded, "I know what happened, she was killed.” Burke's explanation to the doctor was “someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head." He said that the only thing he asked his dad was "where did you find her body", a highly unusual query from a child considering the possible questions a child might ask about the death of a sibling.

How did he know these details? He had to know what took place in order to state “I know what happened”. Took out a hammer or something and hit her on the head (all the while) he was going through the motions. Hmmm ….

On the late evening of the 25th and early morning hours of the 26th all 3 people in that home took part in this crime. There was no intruder.

 

[CloudedTruth]

That’s not all he said:
Bonita Papers on Burke Ramsey's Interview with Dr. Suzanne Bernard,Excerpt


How did he know these details? He had to know what took place in order to state “I know what happened”. Took out a hammer or something and hit her on the head (all the while) he was going through the motions. Hmmm ….

On the late evening of the 25th and early morning hours of the 26th all 3 people in that home took part in this crime. There was no intruder.

Good question. I don't think there is an account of exactly what was said and subsequently overheard, but there was also an incident I believe with BR and Doug Stine where they were in Doug's room and they were apparently discussing how the strangulation occurred, whether it was done manually or what. Susan Stine allegedly overheard the conversation and described to a friend their demeanor as "cold", as if they were just talking about a tv show. Yet another weird thing.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Good question. I don't think there is an account of exactly what was said and subsequently overheard, but there was also an incident I believe with BR and Doug Stine where they were in Doug's room and they were apparently discussing how the strangulation occurred, whether it was done manually or what. Susan Stine allegedly overheard the conversation and described to a friend their demeanor as "cold", as if they were just talking about a tv show. Yet another weird thing.

From Kolar's FF:

Upon returning from Atlanta on January 2, 1997, Kaempfer spoke to fellow parent Susan Stine and was told about a conversation Stine had overheard taking place between Burke and her son, Doug. This was reported to have taken place on the afternoon following the grief counseling session that had been hosted at JonBenéts school on the morning of Saturday, December 28, 1996.

Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenéts death.

Stine described the conversation as being very impersonal, and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were talking about a TV show. This discourse between Burke and Doug had taken place no more than 2 days following JonBenét’s murder and apparently had such an impact upon Stine that she brought it up in conversation with Mary Kaempfer at the first opportunity.

The conversation between Burke and Doug took place two days after the murder. How did he know this detail if he wasn’t a witness or participant? He was shy a few weeks before turning 10.
——————————————

Unfortunately the video portion of Burke’s interview with Dr. Bernhardt has been pulled … actions speak louder then words, here is a portion of the interview:

DR. SUZANNE BERNHARDT: So what did they tell you about why they wanted you to come talk to me?

BURKE: To see if they can find who... you know what.

DR. BERNHARDT: Well, let me tell you a couple things, Burke, first. My job is partly to get to know you as best as I can. Um, and make sure that you’re okay cause things are kind of been hard, I imagine. Okay. Are you going to school?

BURKE: No, because we’re trying to stay away from the press. My friend said that after school there’s all these media people waiting there going “Hello, hello. Did you see Burke in class today?” “Um, no, I did not. I think he was absent.” “Oh, thanks.”

DR. BERNHARDT: So do you feel like you’re pretty safe?

BURKE: Yeah.

DR. BERNHARDT: Yeah? Do you ever worry about it?

BURKE: Not really.

DR. BERNHARDT: No?

Page 66 of 84

BURKE: I’m usually just playing my Nintendo.

DR. BERNHARDT: Yeah.

DR. BERNHARDT: Do you have any secrets do you think?

BURKE: Um, I probably do—

DR. BERNHARDT: You do.

BURKE: ... but I don’t really remember them.

DR. BERNHARDT: Yeah.

BURKE: And if I did remember anything I don’t think I’d tell you.

DR. BERNHARDT: Why not? I’m a good person to tell secrets to.

BURKE: Because they’re secrets.

DR. BERNHARDT: That’s true. I was just kidding.

DR. BERNHARDT: So have things changed at your house a lot?

BURKE: Uh, a lot, yeah.

DR. BERNHARDT: Yeah, what’s changed?

BURKE: Well, you know, police have it blocked off and stuff.

DR. BERNHARDT: Well, what about for you and your parents?

BURKE: You know, my parents are sometimes crying.

DR. BERNHARDT: Yes.

BURKE: But, I’m, I’m basically just going on with my life, you know?

BURKE: I’m basically just going on with my life, you know?

Page 68 of 84

DR. BERNHARDT: So what do you think happened?

BURKE: I know what happened.

DR. BERNHARDT: You mean when she got killed? How do you think that happened?

BURKE: I think, well, I, I, I, I asked my dad where did they find her body? And my dad, my dad said “I found it down in the basement, and so—I think that someone took her very quietly and tiptoed down the basement and then maybe maybe took a knife out and he went. You know, something like that.

DR. BERNHARDT: Do you think that’s how she died?

BURKE: Or maybe a hammer—hit her in the head maybe.

BURKE: ... and then maybe took a knife out and he went. You know, something like that.

DR. BERNHARD: So what did your parents tell you about your sister dying?

BURKE: I just —now when I got there to the house for the kind of funeral type thing. My dad says JonBenét is in Heaven now.” Just kinda burst into tears.

Page 70 of 84

DR. BERNHARD: I’ll bet. How are they dealing with it now?

BURKE: I don’t know, I kind forget about it ‘cause I’m just going ‘beep.’

DR. BERNHARD: You’re just playing videogames all the time.

BURKE: Go, go, go, go, go, go.

And in his 1998 interview we have this:
Burke on finding out Jonbenet was dead

DS: When did you really find out that Jonbenet was -- was dead?

BR: Mm, (inaudible) at the Fernies’ house…

BR: And I was-- I thought Jonbenet was gonna be there, I thought they had found her. So I came in, got excited, and almost relieved...

DS: Uh huh.

BR: And I saw everyone was sad inside and my dad told me that Jonbenet was in heaven.

DS: What did you do?

BR: Started crying. Like, sobbing and - build up to a cry.

Building up to a cry, almost relieved; gets me every time!

 

[proust20]

I believe that there are additional, unreleased interviews with Burke. These all took place due to CO law. The parents cold not prevent them from happening. I assume that John coached his son. I wonder if BR admitted that he was present during the 911.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

My father was a Navy vet, and part and parcel was pride in knots and everyone knew it. I doubt John would knowingly draw attention to himself by featuring a relatively rare knot in the murder package.

But he disavows knowledge of knots altogether. That's a bit odd, right?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

But he disavows knowledge of knots altogether. That's a bit odd, right?

Sure, especially considering he and FW were sailboat buddies!

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Shambolic! I agree.

For generations the Ramsey family have passed down their traditions and skills in scouting, sailing, airplanes and aeronautics. John’s father, James D. Ramsey, was a scout during his youth, and became a distinguished pilot who flew numerous missions in World War II. After the war, Ramsey would continue his passion for flight and help advance the age of commercial airline travel as the Director of the Michigan Aeronautics Commission. He passed down his skills as a pilot to his sons, John and Jeff, and taught them everything about airplanes and how to fly. Long after John had left home for college and time in the Navy, James Ramsey stayed active in the Boy Scouts of America, as a sponsor and advisor for Explorer Post 317 in Michigan. In 1971, Ramsey planned and piloted a flight on which he presented an advanced Air Explorer Scout his distinguished Eagle award at 10,000 feet in the air. Following in his father’s footsteps, John would also become an advanced scout, pilot, and would go on to own multiple airplanes in his lifetime. In TOSOS, John reminisces about going out on his father’s boat and fishing with him on Lake Mecosta. John seemed to love boating and sailing on the water as much as he enjoyed flying in the air. As I mentioned before, John owned at least three sailing vessels throughout his life.

John’s first son, John Andrew Ramsey, didn’t fall far from the knots, knowledge, and know-how tree. JAR was in the scouting program for a long time during his adolescent and high-school years. He became a high-ranking advanced Eagle Scout. The climbing/outdoor rope and rucksack found in his room was his. John’s second daughter, Melinda also followed the tradition of the Ramsey family and became an Explorer Scout.

The culmination of all this knowledge, exptertise, and experience in these specific activities that require handling and tying of ropes into various scouting and nautical knots was funneled down to Burke Ramsey. Like all of the Ramsey men before him, he developed an enthusiasm and passion for scouting, sailing, and all things airplane. At the age of nine, almost ten, Burke had already become an advanced scout for his age. And why wouldn’t he be? He had excellent teachers with lifetimes of experience surrounding him. At the time of the murder, Burke had already been in the Boy Scouting program for over three years. He stood out by winning the Best All-around Camper award at Camp McSauba in his Charlevoix summer of 95’. This is the same year Burke took sailing lessons each day while at Summer Hill. He owned multiple pocketknives, including a Swiss Army Knife engraved with his name. In his 1998 interview with police, he rattled off the name of every tool on his knives, including “ this little hook thing that you tie better knots with.” Burke wore the best hiking shoes/boots at the time- Hi-Tec’s, complete with a compass on the shoelace to enhance his skills in scouting. In addition to the airplane wallpaper plastered on the walls of his bedroom, he showed off one of his many model airplanes by hanging it from the ceiling. This was the same model airplane that had white camping cord, tied in knots, hanging from it- shown in the crime scene photographs taken during the multiple-day processing of the house for evidence.

This is who Burke was. This is who the Ramseys were. The Ramseys didn’t approach these activities and develop these skill-sets, in a leisurely anecdotal hearsay, sort of way- but rather, a woven into the fabric of the family, sort of way. Given that a broken wooden stick, wood shavings, Hi-Tec shoeprint, white nylon camping cord, various knots, and a Swiss Army Knife are all found at ground zero of the crime scene, it's all important, it all matters.

"That one has a big knife, small knife, saw, corkscrew, screwdriver, flat head screwdriver, toothpick and tweezers. And I think that's it. And then I have another one that has a saw, scissors, it's got this little hook thing that you tie knots better with." - Burke Ramsey's 1998 interview with police.

“It reminds me of the days when my brother and I scrambled to get our gear into the small cedar strip fishing boat to go fishing with Dad on Lake Mecosta. And I think of the mornings when John Andrew was young and beside me preparing for takeoff into the rising sun in our small airplane.” - TOSOS.

I can't help but think if the materials found in JBR vagina were from the paintbrush and were transferred via digital penetration, then the cords were not staging but amateurish restraints. She screams once she realizes motive, head Injury, parents arrive on the scene. The stage was ready set. Suffocation by pillow on a already compromised person, wipe her down, tidy loose ends, and start making phone calls.
Tear apart my theory please.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

proust20,
I believe the fruit cocktail JB consumed took approx 30 to 40 minutes for her to digest. PR could have been taking care off last minute tasks before she actually headed up to bed and changed her cloths. The fiber evidence from her sweater (turned over to BPD a little over a year after JB passed) was a consistent match, where as JR fiber evidence was exact.

The question I’d like an answer to is why was JR fiber evidence in the folds of JB labia? Who was the SA of JB? I agree, was it a fit of rage or SA as the motive? Any family member could have their own personal reasons for a fit of rage. Maybe BR lost it over JB taking his food by hand or stomping on his toy. Maybe JB (on the 23rd) actually said she was going to tell on her abuser. After all, she was seen and spoken to sitting on the spiral staircase crying stating she didn’t feel pretty. I know she had put on makeup for the party and PR told her to march upstairs and take it off. If this is what upset her then it directly speaks to how the pageants were actually affecting her. It is not normal (IMO) for a 6 year old little girl to question whether or not she is pretty. There is more here then meets the eye. Pageants (IMO) for little girls is sexualizing them.

I wish they would open up the evidence files on this case. It seems the case was a total fumble from the moment the police arrived that morning. Which leads me further to believe that JR was on the horn calling government officials prior to the 911 call. Whatever happened all three members were involved in the coverup.

Couldn't those fibers gotten transferred earlier in the day? JBR needed help wiping herself. This would have required PR to at least put a sleeve in close proximity to her genitalia. Proper wiping of a female is front to back.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Couldn't those fibers gotten transferred earlier in the day? JBR needed help wiping herself. This would have required PR to at least put a sleeve in close proximity to her genitalia. Proper wiping of a female is front to back.

Same as JR, he could have wiped her after toileting earlier in the day as well. The parents fibers being there seems more plausible to be there because she still needed others to wipe her after toileting. What would be more telling would be I it was fibers from BR clothes. Sometimes you have weed out the noise of what would be there because of routine. I recall hearing she asked whoever was close to wipe her.