South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #2

[WaddupYo]

September can not get here fast enough.

 

[WaddupYo]

BL: What are the warning signs that bullying is occurring?

JB: Change in appetite, dramatic makeover attempts, lethargy and depression, excessive distractedness, inexplicable fits of rage, sudden increase or decrease in grades, diminished personal hygiene, cutting and dark moods. Many bullied kids write angry poetry or use other forms of creative outlets such as drawing, painting, etc., to express their pain.

From an interview talking about bullying

http://www.oprah.com/relationships/Phoebe-Prince-and-the-Tragedy-of-Bullying-Brad-Lamm/print/1

 

[WaddupYo]

Take care all..see ya around possibly tonight or the next few days but I will be gone all next week.

 

[thebear14]

There likely is something in that last bit of time at home that was the final straw. Maybe not texts she got, but perhaps going online and seeing something posted somewhere?

A combination of things? We haven't heard if anybody called her... if they had her phone number to text they could have called as well.

Just speculation until we hear details via documents/court proceedings.

yes I was also thinking perhaps she went online and saw something there...I have a feeling there was more going on online than what we're hearing about - and it could have been very bad. Also more harassment via text messages and phone calls. One can only imagine...I think I shall stock up on alcoholic products and stress balls for any future documents to be released....

 

[thebear14]

Phoebe told that boy that she was going to the dance with that she'd call him around dinner time that night. That night. The night it happened.

yep, she had plans, and I really don't believe those plans involved dying that night. Not at all.

 

[thebear14]

i started following this thread recently. i've seen rumors, can't remember where, that her parents are divorced/separated; and that she may have attempted suicide previously. is there anything to that? not that it's relevant to the current charges against the six, but if true it's likely to come up at some point either as evidence or leaks to the media. i'm asking in the spirit of trying to understand how this tragedy came about. somewhat lost or inextricably tied to the bullying issue is the issue of teen suicide. having a son just hitting his teens and a brother about to follow i'm a concerned parent. thanks

hello! There have been a few different stories about her parents. One of them is that the mother came over here with Phoebe and her younger sister while the father stayed in Ireland to sell their house. The other one is that they were indeed separated. We don't really know for sure right now. There have been random rumors that she previously attempted suicide but I've seen nothing in any published news article indicating that at all. There's a possibility she dealt with some bullying in her school in Ireland, but we don't know the facts surrounding that as of yet. From everything I've read she seemed to be a happy, optimistic, fun young girl and nothing I've personally read indicates any depression.

I'm sure further details regarding her parents, previous bullying, and possible depression or other suicide attempts would be revealed through court documents or when/if this case gets to trial, which is not until September.

Hope this helped!

 

[thebear14]

Sauerkraut posted this as a response to a comment on his blog yesterday, sorry if it was posted already:

[ed note: I am more of the opinion that fluffy is just a lonely old schlup. I think something did happen and it included the taking of pictures which were then circulated. When Phoebe found out what was being done with them, she freaked. Prior to then, she remained demure, hoping her passiveness would keep the pictures secret. That's my theory, and until I see something compelling to suggest otherwise, I am not changing it.]

http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/blaming-the-victim-part-i/#comments That's his response to the very last comment.

I don't think I've ever really thought of the possibility that she was keeping quiet to prevent something from coming out. As I said a few days ago, I figured one of the reasons she may have kept quiet was to prevent things from possibly getting worse for her and to prevent further retaliation if the girls were to have gotten in serious trouble (such as getting kicked off sports teams). I feel like if there were pictures that she was either trying to keep quiet or that were being circulated already that we would have heard about them by now - but if they only started being sent out the day she died then perhaps LE got involved real fast and shut it down before more could know about it.

Then again, we are talking about a group of kids who apparently mimicked her hanging and continued to talk bad about her after her death so, what would stop them from spreading the juicy tidbit that there were inappropriate pictures of Phoebe? Again, not saying that there are and I feel like we would have heard about them - I hope there aren't - but I don't think we can completely rule it out yet.

Just thought it was an interesting theory - sorry if it's been posted before or is common knowledge.

 

[Paladine]

i started following this thread recently. I've seen rumors, can't remember where, that her parents are divorced/separated; and that she may have attempted suicide previously. is there anything to that? not that it's relevant to the current charges against the six, but if true it's likely to come up at some point either as evidence or leaks to the media. I'm asking in the spirit of trying to understand how this tragedy came about. somewhat lost or inextricably tied to the bullying issue is the issue of teen suicide. having a son just hitting his teens and a brother about to follow I'm a concerned parent. thanks

Hi. IMO, it's not relevant whether her parents we're married or not...has no bearing on Sharon yelling in the cafeteria, or the gruesome threesome doing their dirty deeds in the library.

They are not being charged for Phoebe's suicide. They are being charged for harassment, stalking, stat rape. That has nothing to do with Phoebe's state of mind. Excuse my bluntness but Phoebe could have been a depressed, drug addled, alcoholic prostitute with 7 step-fathers...and it STILL is not OK to commit crimes against her.

ETA: This is a tough one for me. I've worked with women that weren't what society would call 'proper'. And I love many. I've heard their stories...they deserve the same protection under the law as we all do. imo.

And, as bear pointed out, we have accounts of a happy child in Ireland.

 

[Paladine]

"Prince case backlash spurs death threat"

A 22News investigation uncovered at least one death threat targeting a private citizen who publicly questioned school authorities.

the school has received about 10 to 12 threatening emails. All of them have been from anonymous senders, and some are from far away states

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/prince-case-stirs-up-death-threats

 

[Laurence]

"Prince case backlash spurs death threat"



http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/prince-case-stirs-up-death-threats

Did you catch this in regards to the threat made against the citizen that was critical of the school administration?

"Chief David Labrie of the South Hadley Police Department said that threat hasn't been brought to his attention."

But don't worry, he's all up to date on threats to the bullies and administration.

 

[Paladine]

Did you catch this in regards to the threat made against the citizen that was critical of the school administration?

"Chief David Labrie of the South Hadley Police Department said that threat hasn't been brought to his attention."

But don't worry, he's all up to date on threats to the bullies and administration.

I did catch that! But I sure am happy you highlighted it...stunning.

 

[jjenny]

Hi. IMO, it's not relevant whether her parents we're married or not...has no bearing on Sharon yelling in the cafeteria, or the gruesome threesome doing their dirty deeds in the library.

They are not being charged for Phoebe's suicide. They are being charged for harassment, stalking, stat rape. That has nothing to do with Phoebe's state of mind. Excuse my bluntness but Phoebe could have been a depressed, drug addled, alcoholic prostitute with 7 step-fathers...and it STILL is not OK to commit crimes against her.

ETA: This is a tough one for me. I've worked with women that weren't what society would call 'proper'. And I love many. I've heard their stories...they deserve the same protection under the law as we all do. imo.

And, as bear pointed out, we have accounts of a happy child in Ireland.

Actually we don't know that they are not being charged with the suicide. What about the charge of violation of civil rights with bodily injury resulting. What exactly is the injury they are being charged for?

 

[Paladine]

I just read the article posted at the top of the page from IrishCentral, and noticed some things. Here are a few quotes and my responses:

"'Early that morning she was " skipping around, she seemed great," a female friend said."

- Doesn't really sound like someone suicidal to me. In most cases people who are suicidal tend to separate their bonds (to whatever degree) shortly before their act.

"But after lunch Phoebe, seemed increasingly despondent to friends. She described an incident of bullying to them and said "I'll find a way out of this problem.""

- To me this actually sounds like it could have been more optimistic than anything. This is a statement in writing, with lack of vocal inflection to determine the spirit of her statement, so I can see how to the reader it looks more ominous. It also wouldn't take much to twist this very same statement to her impressionable young friends in hind sight.

"Little did the friends know she was talking about killing herself."

- The author is still under the assumption that it was suicide, and thus inferred that the friends could not have derived any further meaning from what she said.

"Her death confounded her friends, who pointed out that she signed off her text messages with a saying "life is an opportunity in itself."

-If you put this together with the above statements, it sounds to me like despite what she was going through, she was an eternal optimist. Optimists tend not to off themselves because optimists tend to see the bright side of things, present and future.

Also might I point out that if she were a writer and poet, then surely somewhere in her writings she would have mentioned her lack of will to live, and surely she would have shared such writings with one of her closest friends. I'm just thinking back to my days in high school and how kids were. It would be nice to know what was in her writings the week of her death.

Hey Kris ...another thought provoking post! I'm taking it all in...

Would you mind copying it and posting it on the suicide/murder thread, as well? Your posts are so full of good ideas to consider, I'd hate to lose them when this thread eventually closes...

 

[Paladine]

Someone, who shall remain nameless because I don't have permission to say , made an interesting observation...apparently, people mag reported Sharon was Kayla's friend in their report today. Can anyone confirm that? The dox seem to indicate Sharon was Flannery's friend.

Could people mag have gotten "the cell phone plugged in" info wrong? I have not seen one other confirmation of that...the cell phone plugged in. If anyone happens to come across, or knows of another report of the cell phone being plugged in, would you mind sharing the link? I'm not sure, now.

 

[jjenny]

Someone, who shall remain nameless because I don't have permission to say , made an interesting observation...apparently, people mag reported Sharon was Kayla's friend in their report today. Can anyone confirm that? The dox seem to indicate Sharon was Flannery's friend.

Could people mag have gotten "the cell phone plugged in" info wrong? I have not seen one other confirmation of that...the cell phone plugged in. If anyone happens to come across, or knows of another report of the cell phone being plugged in, would you mind sharing the link? I'm not sure, now.

As I recall, the article that said cell phone was plugged in also said she hung herself in the closet, yet apparently she did so in the stairwell. So I am also not convinced the cell phone info was in fact correct.

 

[Paladine]

As I recall, the article that said cell phone was plugged in also said she hung herself in the closet, yet apparently she did so in the stairwell. So I am also not convinced the cell phone info was in fact correct.

Thanks, jjenny. I wonder if the one who was in her closet, possibly had HER phone plugged in...maybe the journo conflated the 2 cases?

 

[MaureenN]

Actually we don't know that they are not being charged with the suicide. What about the charge of violation of civil rights with bodily injury resulting. What exactly is the injury they are being charged for?

I'm still not sure, either and haven't read the People article myself, yet. But, I believe that the People article mentions being shoved into lockers. Bodily injury could result from something like that. But, would that apply to everyone?

The thing that gets me re: the 'bodily injury' is that, at least on a federal level, there is an available charge of 'Civil rights violation resulting in death'. Not sure if that's available on a commonwealth level, though. But, if it is and if the intention is to charge the defendants with causing the suicide, then I would think that they would have used that charge, instead.

 

[BeenaBobba]

yeah I saw the same thing on formspring and also thought the same thing about how Phoebe was introduced to SM. The girl in question stated that SM was like a big brother to her and mentions him often so it's possible that's how she ended up getting to know SM. Either they met through mutual friends or SM noticed her and saw this girl being friendly with her and asked to be introduced. Just one possible scenario, anyway.

Is this someone with the initials K.B. you're referring to?

 

[AstuteLearner8]

Sorry for going off topic but today is April 16, Day of Silence. I was going to participate in it but I forgot that it was today :banghead:.

Here's more info on it:

The National Day of Silence brings attention to anti-LGBT name-calling, bullying and harassment in schools. Please participate in D.o.S. on Friday April 16th.
You can get a speaking card at http://dayofsilence.org/downloads/dos_speaking_card_09.pdf or make your own.

GSA has decided to make the quote for the day "It's times like these where silence means everything."

How will you raise awareness?

SPEAKING CARD~

"Please understand my reasons for not speaking today. I am participating in the Day of Silence (DOS), a national youth movement bringing attention to the silence faced by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgenderpeople and their allies. My deliberate silence echoes that silence, whichis caused by anti-LGBT bullying, name-calling and harassment.I believe that ending the silence is the fi rst step toward buildingawareness and making a commitment to address theseinjustices. Think about the voices you are not hearing today.

What are you going to do to end the Silence?"

That's what it says on the speaking card.... kinda lengthy.
Cut it down if you want...
My speaking card will just say:

"It's times like these where silence means everything."---I'm am choosing not speaking today as I participate in the Day of Silence to raise awareness of the voices of LGBT people and their allies that are silenced by homophobia and discrimination. What are you going to do to end the Silence

It was extremely successful at my school with a lot of people not speaking. Just wanted to say this.

 

[dcbrent]

Hi. IMO, it's not relevant whether her parents we're married or not...has no bearing on Sharon yelling in the cafeteria, or the gruesome threesome doing their dirty deeds in the library.

They are not being charged for Phoebe's suicide. They are being charged for harassment, stalking, stat rape. That has nothing to do with Phoebe's state of mind. Excuse my bluntness but Phoebe could have been a depressed, drug addled, alcoholic prostitute with 7 step-fathers...and it STILL is not OK to commit crimes against her.

ETA: This is a tough one for me. I've worked with women that weren't what society would call 'proper'. And I love many. I've heard their stories...they deserve the same protection under the law as we all do. imo.

And, as bear pointed out, we have accounts of a happy child in Ireland.

I wasn't trying to suggest that any personal issues, such as a divorce, depression or a previous suicide attempt, in any way lessened or excused the inhuman treatment she received from the six. No one deserves to be treated that way. I'm only trying to understand what in her life, if there was anything in addition to bullying, may have driven her to her desperate act. That's all. It has no bearing on the the guilt of the six, but it is relevant in understanding this teen's suicide. If the family files a civil action against the school and/or any of the six over her death, and I believe they should, it will undoubtedly be asked. But even more, it may be helpful and may save lives in the future to understand why it is that certain teens are driven to such measures. Obviously the bullying played a huge part. But was there anything else. By the way, to anyone who is interested, on the litterbox website there are some of her school writings available. One of them is a book report on a book about "cutting" and she mentions that the subject was of interest to her becaause some close to her had a problem with self mutilation. Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight or excuse any of the inhumane treatment she received nor am I judging her in any way. Just trying to understand a tragedy. Thanks for your feedback and your commitment to justice for Phoebe.