ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #15

[ILOKAL]

I know Generation Y overshares, but didn't JM call or text her mother that they went to the store to get feminine products? Must have mattered to HER. Documenting the visit was somehow important to her.

Only a few would consider that "documenting" the trip, IMO. To me, they had a conversation like they probably had often, and the trip to the store came up as a PART of that conversation. I can easily see two women laughing over the feminine products.

 

[MBK]

Do we know "for certain" that the diaper belonged to DeOrr??
.

This is an interesting question. Seems like a very isolated campsite . . I wonder how many campers even go there in a week. Seems unlikely that there would be another diaper-wearing toddler staying there so very recently. But then, of course, diapers have a long life . . they don't disintegrate or degrade like other items. Plastic bags, too. They're litter for a long time. That having been said, the diaper question - how many were brought, how many were worn by little Deorr - - is an interesting ancillary point.

 

[Dee10]

Agree. But if he was verified to be last seen having fun by ggp a hour or so before the call to police. Then what they did prior is somewhat miscellaneous. Unless he was harmed earlier and then later succumbed to head injuries. Then I think it's safe to say that he was happy and playing a hour or so prior to the police being called. Jmo

"But if he was verified" is the problem as there appears to be no independent witnesses other than the 4. If all four POIs had the same story and all passed their polys, and if pings matched the time/location maybe the previous time-period would not matter. In fact maybe everyone would believe this little boy accidentally got lost or tragically drowned. JMO

 

[MBK]

Agree. But if he was verified to be last seen having fun by ggp a hour or so before the call to police. Then what they did prior is somewhat miscellaneous. Unless he was harmed earlier and then later succumbed to head injuries. Then I think it's safe to say that he was happy and playing a hour or so prior to the police being called. Jmo

What they did that morning . .. let say the parents and Deorr went on a walk . . . where they went . . . might be revealing and could spark an idea in an investigator. I mean, I "hope" people don't go "camping" just to sleep in a car.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Ggp supposedly was watching deorr after the store trip. So in all honesty ; Why does the store trip matter?

It's not like they bought plastic garbage bags and duct tape with a big cooler. Jmo

Because if Deorr didn't go on that trip it gives a whole lot bigger time frame for him to disappear.

 

[DexterMorgan]

"But if he was verified" is the problem as there appears to be no independent witnesses other than the 4. If all four POIs had the same story and all passed their polys, and if pings matched the time/location maybe the previous time-period would not matter. In fact maybe everyone would believe this little boy accidentally got lost or tragically drowned. JMO

Ggp figured deorr followed mom and dad once he lost sight of him. The other guy was a little bit further down by the stream or whatever.

So unless they all 4 conspired. Then someone told le the truth.

I'm sure le asked the simplest questions. But as far as the time. Not too many people look at the time on a camping trip as they do on a daily basis. Jmo. But overall it seems like le is okay with the time of each persons account. Jmo

 

[MBK]

Because if Deorr didn't go on that trip it gives a whole lot bigger time frame for him to disappear.

And if he DID go on the trip, why did nobody see him in the store? Did he eat the french fries in the car? . . .someone hits on the brakes . .. chokes on french fries . . . car seat and kid disposed of . . . I dunno . . . <modsnip>

 

[DexterMorgan]

What they did that morning . .. let say the parents and Deorr went on a walk . . . where they went . . . might be revealing and could spark an idea in an investigator. I mean, I "hope" people don't go "camping" just to sleep in a car.

So you figure that ggp lied about his accounts of seeing Deorr?

 

[DexterMorgan]

Because if Deorr didn't go on that trip it gives a whole lot bigger time frame for him to disappear.

So ggp is involved and lied? Ggp has no integrity? What are we saying about ggp? The guy is very fragile. So are we saying that he went along with seeing Deorr but Deorr wasn't there? Just asking.

 

[MBK]

So you figure that ggp lied about his accounts of seeing Deorr?

Depending on his mental state, I might not call it lying. It could be confusion. Sure, Deorr may well have been there playing with hotwheels. But I doubt that's ALL he did from waking up until disappearing . . . .

 

[Hoosier952]

This is an interesting question. Seems like a very isolated campsite . . I wonder how many campers even go there in a week. Seems unlikely that there would be another diaper-wearing toddler staying there so very recently. But then, of course, diapers have a long life . . they don't disintegrate or degrade like other items. Plastic bags, too. They're litter for a long time. That having been said, the diaper question - how many were brought, how many were worn by little Deorr - - is an interesting ancillary point.

There's also the possibility of a church volunteer or family member bringing a young child to the campsite when they started searches. Not everyone would have a babysitter and I would imagine lots of local family would have come to show support and help out in any way they could.

 

[Trident]

So ggp is involved and lied? Ggp has no integrity? What are we saying about ggp? The guy is very fragile. So are we saying that he went along with seeing Deorr but Deorr wasn't there? Just asking.

Sometimes folks can be manipulated into believing they "saw" something they may not have, especially if they may be afraid they're becoming forgetful or some such.

:cow:

 

[ILOKAL]

"But if he was verified" is the problem as there appears to be no independent witnesses other than the 4. If all four POIs had the same story and all passed their polys, and if pings matched the time/location maybe the previous time-period would not matter. In fact maybe everyone would believe this little boy accidentally got lost or tragically drowned. JMO

There's been absolutely nothing to lead us to believe all those things DON'T match up and that all four didn't pass their polygraphs.

 

[desert-blue]

Only a few would consider that "documenting" the trip, IMO. To me, they had a conversation like they probably had often, and the trip to the store came up as a PART of that conversation. I can easily see two women laughing over the feminine products.

It would be interesting to see their texts. I agree that if it was only one part of a longer dialogue between the two, that it wouldn't be all that strange. But if that was the only purpose of the correspondence (to tell her mom they were going to the store to get feminine products) that might suggest she could be trying to document her movements.

 

[desert-blue]

There's been absolutely nothing to lead us to believe all those things DON'T match up and that all four didn't pass their polygraphs.

Other than the fact that LE won't release the polygraph results. If they all passed, I can see no reason to keep that secret.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

So ggp is involved and lied? Ggp has no integrity? What are we saying about ggp? The guy is very fragile. So are we saying that he went along with seeing Deorr but Deorr wasn't there? Just asking.

Yeah Dex, I guess some people are wondering that. Me included, sometimes.

I just can't decide what I think happened, I'm open to each and every option that's been thrown on this massive "15,000+ posts" table. I know that not one us can say for sure.

 

[desert-blue]

That would make SB out to be a first class liar then. Because it was after the polys were administered that he said he believed the parents and great-grandpa and felt IR had been truthful.

How long does it take for the results? Maybe he didn't know the results when he said that. I have no idea - just throwing that out there.

 

[OSpyder]

I am trying to find a link to where I read the polygraphs (and it didn't say whose that I remember) were inconclusive?

 

[Dee10]

There's been absolutely nothing to lead us to believe all those things DON'T match up and that all four didn't pass their polygraphs.

I have to disagree, KI has said there are discrepancy issues with the timeline and just yesterday polygraphs at the State and Federal level. The Sheriff has stated and I'm going to paraphrase that poly-experts can sometimes disagree with results and these were being sent along with behavior analysis to the FBI. These are just some reasons that may cause people to have questions, or form an opinion. People are free to give weight to whatever they believe or not or go with blind faith...it's all good.

 

[Lilibet]

:loveyou: Nice to see you, Dex. Thanks for your posts.

Ggp figured deorr followed mom and dad once he lost sight of him. The other guy was a little bit further down by the stream or whatever.

So unless they all 4 conspired. Then someone told le the truth.

I'm sure le asked the simplest questions. But as far as the time. Not too many people look at the time on a camping trip as they do on a daily basis. Jmo. But overall it seems like le is okay with the time of each persons account. Jmo