Identified! WI - Madison, WhtMale 18-35, 745UMWI, in chimney, fem clothing, German iron cross medallion, Sep'89 Ronnie Joe Kirk

[doyoulovemepfg]

Has LE explored the possibility that the UID could have been a local college student? The location he was found isn't far from The University of Wisconsin, Madison. Have they ever contacted students and faculty who would have been there around the time of this man's death? I didn't see that anyone had pursued this angle.

The fact that this UID was wearing an iron cross necklace really made me think of a potential UW student. I'm a UW alum and know that there is a really old secret society called the Iron Cross Society that I believe (don't quote me on this) wears/gives their members iron cross jewelry/pins upon joining. Someone should look into that connection as well.

 

[perfectingpink]

The fact that this UID was wearing an iron cross necklace really made me think of a potential UW student. I'm a UW alum and know that there is a really old secret society called the Iron Cross Society that I believe (don't quote me on this) wears/gives their members iron cross jewelry/pins upon joining. Someone should look into that connection as well.

Here is a list of initiates of the Iron Cross Society during the time:
https://apps.union.wisc.edu/ironcross/initiates9.html

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

Here is a list of initiates of the Iron Cross Society during the time:
https://apps.union.wisc.edu/ironcross/initiates9.html

I just noticed that 1987 was the first year they started initiating women. I don't think that means anything, but I would wager if our UID was indeed a member of Iron Cross, he was likely initiated between 1985 and 88.

 

[Pseudonymph]

This should be investigated as a possible hate crime, I think.

 

[squish]

I think the local LGBT groups should be contacted. It's worth a try, in case he was part of that community and any older members remember him.

I'm not confident in doing it myself, as I'm from England and don't know enough about the groups there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

I think the local LGBT groups should be contacted. It's worth a try, in case he was part of that community and any older members remember him.

I'm not confident in doing it myself, as I'm from England and don't know enough about the groups there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If he was a student, this would be a great place to start.

https://lgbt.wisc.edu

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

Update to the above link: The LGBT Campus Center did not exist around the time this UID was found. It's more likely that the UID would have gone to seek help and community from a local group, but I'm currently not sure which group would have been around in the late '80's and served students. I'm going to look into a group called OutReach and see if they were around at that time.

 

[madamx]

I came across this guy and I thought I would post it.. he is a little taller but the time range seems to fit



http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4618dmil.html

Phillip Wade Murphy
Case Classification: Missing
Missing Since: May 26, 1989
Location Last Seen: Decatur, Macon Co, Illinois


Physical Description
** Listed information is from the time of disappearance.

Date of Birth: July 21, 1966
Age at Time of Disappearance: 23
Race: White
Gender: Male
Height at Time of Disappearance: 5'9 to 6ft
Weight at Time of Disappearance: 145-160 lbs
Hair Color: Dark brown
Eye Color: Hazel
Alias(s) / Nickname(s): Phil

Distinguishing Marks/Features: Horseshoe scar on stomach,scar on upper lip. He was diagnosed with Bi-Polar and Schizophrenia.He took medication for his dissorders.

Dentals: Not available, He had a partial plate for a tooth that had been missing
Fingerprints: Not available
DNA: Not available
Clothing & Personal Items
Clothing: Unknown

Jewelry: Unknown

Additional Personal Items: Unknown

Circumstances of Disappearance
Phillip escaped from Adolf Meyers Mental Health Center in Decatur Il. May 1989. Phillip drew social security benifits because of his illness,the funds stopped after he disappeared.
He has lived in or has friends and family that live or lived in these states Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Washington, Arizona, Idaho, Colarado and Georgia.

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

I came across this guy and I thought I would post it.. he is a little taller but the time range seems to fit

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4618dmil.html

Phillip Wade Murphy
Case Classification: Missing
Missing Since: May 26, 1989
Location Last Seen: Decatur, Macon Co, Illinois


Physical Description
** Listed information is from the time of disappearance.

Date of Birth: July 21, 1966
Age at Time of Disappearance: 23
Race: White
Gender: Male
Height at Time of Disappearance: 5'9 to 6ft
Weight at Time of Disappearance: 145-160 lbs
Hair Color: Dark brown
Eye Color: Hazel
Alias(s) / Nickname(s): Phil

Distinguishing Marks/Features: Horseshoe scar on stomach,scar on upper lip. He was diagnosed with Bi-Polar and Schizophrenia.He took medication for his dissorders.

Dentals: Not available, He had a partial plate for a tooth that had been missing
Fingerprints: Not available
DNA: Not available
Clothing & Personal Items
Clothing: Unknown

Jewelry: Unknown

Additional Personal Items: Unknown

Circumstances of Disappearance
Phillip escaped from Adolf Meyers Mental Health Center in Decatur Il. May 1989. Phillip drew social security benifits because of his illness,the funds stopped after he disappeared.
He has lived in or has friends and family that live or lived in these states Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Washington, Arizona, Idaho, Colarado and Georgia.

It's worth a shot to submit it. Madison has always been a very "young" city with lots of college aged individuals.

IMO, this isn't our UID, solely because of height. I think the UID is a bit shorter than Phillip.

 

[madamx]

It's worth a shot to submit it. Madison has always been a very "young" city with lots of college aged individuals.

IMO, this isn't our UID, solely because of height. I think the UID is a bit shorter than Phillip.

yes your right doyoulovemepfg, I was thinking the same thing the height is off.. but I just thought I would put him up here anyway..i have not really found anyone else that seems to match

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

yes your right doyoulovemepfg, I was thinking the same thing the height is off.. but I just thought I would put him up here anyway..i have not really found anyone else that seems to match

I found a few in NamUs that are also long shots, but some of the circumstantial stuff looks similar.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/28485/9/ - this one I put in solely because of the previous suicide attempts and the mom telling him to leave. I feel like if our UID was LGBT during the AIDS crisis, those circumstances would align.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/10653/17/ - this one looks likely because of the weight. IMO the chin looks similar as well. There isn't a lot on this specific case, but I feel it's worth looking at because of facial features.

 

[madamx]

I found a few in NamUs that are also long shots, but some of the circumstantial stuff looks similar.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/28485/9/ - this one I put in solely because of the previous suicide attempts and the mom telling him to leave. I feel like if our UID was LGBT during the AIDS crisis, those circumstances would align.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/10653/17/ - this one looks likely because of the weight. IMO the chin looks similar as well. There isn't a lot on this specific case, but I feel it's worth looking at because of facial features.

I think the first guy might be closer to this UID.. because the second guy I read there and it said that in running his license he was picked up for a couple of DUI's in 1993.. that is well if it was really him that had the license and not someone else using it..Good searching on these though... sadly this UID seems a bit hard to find any close matches.

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

I think the first guy might be closer to this UID.. because the second guy I read there and it said that in running his license he was picked up for a couple of DUI's in 1993.. that is well if it was really him that had the license and not someone else using it..Good searching on these though... sadly this UID seems a bit hard to find any close matches.

IMO someone should submit Steven Hendricks. Indiana is (roughly) about a 6 hour drive from Madison, and the age, weight, etc. match up well.

I think this UID might be someone whose parents/loved ones weren't accepting and maybe didn't want anything to do with him

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

Update to the above link: The LGBT Campus Center did not exist around the time this UID was found. It's more likely that the UID would have gone to seek help and community from a local group, but I'm currently not sure which group would have been around in the late '80's and served students. I'm going to look into a group called OutReach and see if they were around at that time.

I looked into this group and found some interesting information about LGBT groups in Madison at the time this UID was found. Here is what I learned:

OutReach's history is rooted in the pasts of several different community organizations beginning with Crossroads of Madison, Inc. which was incorporated in 1969, followed by Renaissance of Madison, Inc. and the Madison Gay Center, which was located at 10 Langdon Street and offered information by phone, drop-in peer counseling, reading materials, and a joint lesbian and gay speakers bureau. After the Lesbian Switchboard closed, the Gay Center was renamed the Madison Gay and Lesbian Resource Center (MGLRC). In July of 1973, MGLRC was incorporated as a non-profit. It moved to several locations over the years, but its services were never interrupted. OutReach and its predecessors have offered the community continuous service for 34 years.

The United was formed in 1978 as a political action organization to defend the Madison's non-discrimination ordinance against the anti-LGB campaign led nationally by singer Anita Bryant and locally by an evangelical minister. After that threat passed, The United identified new battles and issues. After working collaboratively for nearly 15 years, the two organizations merged into a new agency called OutReach, Inc., on July 1, 1998.

http://www.lgbtoutreach.org/?q=node/13

Looks like the MGLRC would have been the iteration of Outreach that was around at that time. Not sure whether an organization like this would give detailed information about a case this far back though or even have knowledge.

 

[Ladyraven13]

This is my first post on this site. I watched a video about this case on the Lordenarts channel on YouTube and now I cannot seem to stop thinking about this. So let me start by saying that I work at a local bar in the downtown area of a college town, which has played into my thoughts on this case. I watched the video and read some on it, and also looked at the few cases that were listed on Namus of missing persons in the early 80s in this area. And after all this I am forming an idea that perhaps this was a prank or hazing gone very wrong. What made me start thinking this was an incident that happened at my bar. A guy was being hazed and had to dress up like a woman, climb on top of my bar, and yell something totally inappropriate and have a video of the whole thing. He was caught by the cops, and was wearing a dress and had used tube socks as breasts. So I am now wondering if he climbed on top of the building and fell. It does not explain things like the comb and butter knife, but I am not totally convinced that those came from this person. My other idea is that this person may have been transgender and on hrt. I am still confused as to how they have not got more information (DNA and the like) from the bones.

 

[silverjug]

Anything more known?

 

[houndpounder]

Michael Smalls went missing from Milwaukee July 28,1980. Michael stated he was going to New York State to live.Michael is a little taller but that is irrelevant. Michael was entered in Namus in 2015. His DNA was submitted but not tested yet. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/29102/

 

[carbuff]

He certainly resembles the decedent.

 

[houndpounder]

I submitted Michael Smalls to Lori at Namus earlier this evening.

 

[Al Ka]

Here's a link to some other (older) articles about this case. Of note:

a different, computer-generated recreation of the UID

Age estimated at 20 to 22

Pelvic fractures might be result of someone stomping on his genitals or from going in the chimney

The record store went in only about six weeks before he was found. It was previously the site of a Christian bookstore called the Bread Shop for six years.

http://www.surroundedbyreality.com/Misc/Know/SkeletonC.asp

Very good link with lots of information, thank you.

About 20 years old, 5 feet 5 inches tall, slim, with brown hair and an overbite. Post mortem estimated between one month up to 2 years.

I have seen conflicting information in those and some other articles about certain details. Record shop where remains were found were stated in one article to be there for 6 weeks, while another article claims record shop to be there about 2-3 month. If 3 month would be correct that could still be in timeframe of John Doe demise.

Height of chimney is stated there to be about 8 feet while latest article I read it claimed to be 27 feet (8,5 meters).

Body found in chimneys is quite rare occurance and bodies are not discovered in such places very quickly.

Just to get an idea, example of few cases:

Colorado - body found after 7 years in chimney of an abandoned cabin https://nypost.com/2015/09/30/body-of-18-year-old-missing-for-7-years-found-in-chimney/
Louisiana - body found after 27 years in chimney at the Abbeville National Bank (motive sounds obvious even though not stated in article) http://abcnews.go.com/US/skeleton-found-chimney-27-years-man-disappeared/story?id=14169501
Connecticut - body found after 5 years in the chimney of a Salvation Army Store (victim was known as burglar) https://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/21/...nd-in-chimney-is-named-and-tied-to-theft.html
Wisconcsin - body found within 4-5 month (lucky) in chimney at Magna Tool Corp (victim was known as burglar) http://journaltimes.com/news/local/...cle_6d55af26-252e-5d8e-8ac2-a284e7432cbf.html

And body found in Washington in 1987 - 30 years later he is still unidentified. Interesting details http://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article173627656.html

In most chimney cases motive is burglary but for some reasons like also others mentioned here, I don't really think this was the case here. Very likely prank going wrong, or prank of tipsy or under influence person trying to get to record shop (if it was within 3 month timeframe). Cloth could be due to pub crawl, stag do, halloween, initiation to clup/group etc which all would explain and point to intoxication prior to this incident.