CA - Unidentified & possible missing victims of Randy Kraft, 1971-1983

Were the detectives on the Kraft case negligent?

  • Yeah, they could have done more.

    Votes: 59 90.8%

  • No, I love cops.

    Votes: 6 9.2%
  • Total voters
    65

New Posts

CarlK90245 said:
I found Paul Fuchs' Junior photo in the 1974 Woodrow Wilson High School Yearbook.

2797585230045078242S600x600Q851_zps5513faaa.jpg


His Senior Photo is not in the 1975 book.
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Goecke said:
Oh my gosh, hello! I'm Maiwynne on the UID wiki. I think I saw your comment on there. I was the one who brought it up on the wiki, so I'm glad my theory is getting some attention.
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Hi Maiwynne / Goecke,

I really don't know much about Kraft, but I'm wondering if NamUS UPs 10639 and 10640 are "2 in 1 MV to PL". Maybe what was thought to have been a "V" is actually "L", as in "ML" (or Montara Light, where these two sets of remains were found). A problem is that these people appear to have died years apart; the second victim was found in December 1977 with a postmortem interval of two months, while the first was found in January 1975 after being dead for a few weeks to two months.

I have a thread open for UP#10639 right now and I have added UP#10640 to the Unidentified Wiki. I am not sure that they are connected to Kraft, but something is definitely not right here.

Also, I thought about Larry Dean Williams after learning about UP#10640, but seeing as he went missing from six hours away almost three years before UP#10640 was discovered, I think this is not very likely to be a match.
 
Fuuro said:
Hi Maiwynne / Goecke,

I really don't know much about Kraft, but I'm wondering if NamUS UPs 10639 and 10640 are "2 in 1 MV to PL". Maybe what was thought to have been a "V" is actually "L", as in "ML" (or Montara Light, where these two sets of remains were found). A problem is that these people appear to have died years apart; the second victim was found in December 1977 with a postmortem interval of two months, while the first was found in January 1975 after being dead for a few weeks to two months.

I have a thread open for UP#10639 right now and I have added UP#10640 to the Unidentified Wiki. I am not sure that they are connected to Kraft, but something is definitely not right here.

Also, I thought about Larry Dean Williams after learning about UP#10640, but seeing as he went missing from six hours away almost three years before UP#10640 was discovered, I think this is not very likely to be a match.
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I wish there was a high-resolution image of the scorecard available, but alas, with all of my Googling the best I could find were very small and/or blurry ones. However, the V in MV does seem to be a V, especially comparing it to the L in PL.

Also, I agree with you- there's no way that these two cases aren't connected. Whether or not they were killed by Kraft or not is a different story, but they're definitely connected.

Do you mind linking the thread for #10639?
 
Also, since this was added on the UID wiki, I figure I should add this here as well. Here's a newspaper article regarding #10639: Jan 13, 1975 Montara John Doe - Newspapers.com

It was originally thought that he was Paulo Tapete, an 8-year-old boy who drowned in a boating accident. His father was also killed in the accident, and his body was recovered shortly after. It doesn't seem like the remains were ever positively identified, but I'm not sure if Paulo was ruled out either.
Since the article mentioned him drowning instead of being killed in a manner that would have dismembered him, it would be VERY helpful to know if his head and limbs were missing due to disarticulation in the water or if he was intentionally dismembered.
Given the similarities to #10640, I'm inclined to think that these remains aren't Paulo's, but I wish we knew how this lead played out.

Edit: I just searched for Paulo Tapete on NamUs, and he's not listed. Googling his or his father's name didn't turn up any results either.
 
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Goecke said:
Also, since this was added on the UID wiki, I figure I should add this here as well. Here's a newspaper article regarding #10639: Jan 13, 1975 Montara John Doe - Newspapers.com

It was originally thought that he was Paulo Tapete, an 8-year-old boy who drowned in a boating accident. His father was also killed in the accident, and his body was recovered shortly after. It doesn't seem like the remains were ever positively identified, but I'm not sure if Paulo was ruled out either.
Since the article mentioned him drowning instead of being killed in a manner that would have dismembered him, it would be VERY helpful to know if his head and limbs were missing due to disarticulation in the water or if he was intentionally dismembered.
Given the similarities to #10640, I'm inclined to think that these remains aren't Paulo's, but I wish we knew how this lead played out.

Edit: I just searched for Paulo Tapete on NamUs, and he's not listed. Googling his or his father's name didn't turn up any results either.
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I was the one who added the Paulo Tapete article to the Wiki page earlier today, and yeah, I wasn't able to find any additional information on Paulo, his father Pablo, or the results of the identification attempt. Zero information on any developments past the date of those initial articles, which I believe were published on the day of discovery.

I am curious as to the nature of the dismemberment (whether or not it was done with tools, if any, and what kinds of tools) myself. It totally changes the dynamics of this case.

Also, here is a link to the UP#10639 thread on here:
CA - Montara - Male #UP10639, 7-8, dismembered w/plastic piece in rib cage
 
Sorry for all the posts in a row, I'm just submitting my findings as I find them.

JOHN DOE / CASE #77-1048 | Coroner
Cause of death for #10640 was related to drowning. So the 'dismemberment' could have been disarticulation from being in the water for a prolonged period. Knowing this, I'm more inclined to think that #10639 could have been another drowning victim, and Paulo Tapete is the most likely.

... I really thought we were onto something with these. Oh well.

I found the Pacifica torso on the coroner's website as well:
JOHN DOE / CASE #74-407 | Coroner
No COD listed. Out of the three, it seems most likely that he was a victim of foul play, imo.
 
[/QUOTE]Regarding the pronunciation of Paul Fuchs name. I went to Wilson High with an older brother. At the time his name was pronounced with a long "U." "Fukes." Or at least in the class or two I remember him.[/QUOTE]

This is absolutely correct
 
Here is a short newscast on Kraft's murder of two farm boys in Grand Rapids that is on his scorecard as GR2 in dec 82
Kraft was at a computer convention at the Hilton in Grand Rapids for three days ; on the final day he met those two farm boys who were drinking in the Hilton bar late at night ; he struck up a conversation and offered them a ride home to their farms on the outskirts of town , but before they left he bought them both a drink and spiked them with vallium ... they both passed out in his car as they were driving and he strangled them both ...incidentally , he was nearly caught as he left their keys in his hotel room , but the maid sent them to lost property and the connection was never made ..those two were desperately unlucky to run into that creep

The "Scorecard Killer" and the GR2 - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfqNHt8pZGA
 
My understanding is that he won't discuss these matters with you; part of his M.O. is to deny he committed these crimes, it's his way of maintaining control and mastery over his victims. Serial killers are narcissists, if you interact with Kraft, he will try to manipulate you for his own purposes. He's an evil sadist.


InquisitiveIndividual said:
Just another couple of point(s) to keep this thread active out of my own curiosity vìs-a-vìs Kraft's case:

There's been speculation over the accuracy of which victims have been correctly attributed to certain hit list entries, but has anyone gotten the chance to compile their own beliefs on which term is aligned with the proper victim and compare it to other people's constructed lists? I'm aware that there are numerous articles online that show detailed lists and their reasons for it, but after the amount of doubt in this thread about certain people being identified incorrectly and connections to unsolved 'ohn Does and missing persons makes me wonder otherwise.

Also, as a relatively young, out-and-about somewhat Anglo-Saxon bisexual dude, I was contemplating using my ascribed status to establish communication with Kraft to see if I can gain his trust and have him open up about the details of his crimes so that families can be brought some closure. I've studied the case enough to be aware of his sociopathic traits to manipulate people and deflect attention away from his guilt by never discussing his involvement for years now, (as well as the fabrication and mind games that he most likely will play with me,) but I've never heard of anyone of his preferred victim demographic reach out to him. If this is safe to successfully attempt to do, how should I go about it, and are there any potential threats that I could face?
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Cory Chia said:
My understanding is that he won't discuss these matters with you; part of his M.O. is to deny he committed these crimes, it's his way of maintaining control and mastery over his victims. Serial killers are narcissists, if you interact with Kraft, he will try to manipulate you for his own purposes. He's an evil sadist.
Click to expand...

I was able to infer that much from hearing about his attitudes through personal research, heck I even heard it in an email from Dennis McDougal, the author of the book that most explicitly describes the cases. Even though I did write and send him a letter that was non-confrontational and didn't refer to his crimes in the slightest, I never heard back from him. Whether or not he got it and didn't respond, nor did he ever receive it in the mailing process is beyond me, but I feel inclined to reach out to him again eventually.

Kraft's feigned disbelief at his sentencing despite the mountains of evidence implicating him in these crimes is irrefutably pathetic. He knows exactly what he did and is still withholding information that can give so many people closure.
 
Cory Chia said:
My understanding is that he won't discuss these matters with you; part of his M.O. is to deny he committed these crimes, it's his way of maintaining control and mastery over his victims. Serial killers are narcissists, if you interact with Kraft, he will try to manipulate you for his own purposes. He's an evil sadist.
Click to expand...

https://thepridela.com/2016/11/death-rows-scorecard-killer-k-freeway-killer-randy-kraft-speaks/

Here's an interesting article and video that proves your point.
 
Onfortuneswheel said:
I wonder if Andy Luna could possibly be USER? He went missing February 7, 1975 and I don't believe he was ever found. His car was found abandoned in Long Beach.
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I'm unable to locate any further information on Andy Luna, but I am wondering what makes you think that he could fit the USER entry? Or furthermore, how'd you stumble upon him?
 
TARLETON said:
In regards to aforemention victim KEITH ANTONY JACKSON who was last heard from in Los Angeles Cal, USA sept 1979
He may have been hitchhiking or just in a Bar and accepted a lift from the notorious serial killer , RANDY KRAFT .. the name ''ENGLAND '' is on his so called ''scorecard'' that was a proven list of his victims
Moreover, I was hitch-hiking exactly a year later in LA and actually ran into that creep, Kraft ... I too was on vacation from the UK , but I always thought that the ''England '' on his scorecard was in reference to me , a'' close miss ''.. I was living temporarily in L A during the summer of 1980 , but out of a sense of adventure and wanderlust I decided in my youthful innocence that I would H H around the western US and Canada , but I had enough sense to recognise that LA was ''serial killer central'' and therefore caught a bus to Nevada where my adventure began ; I travelled about 4000 in six weeks up to Canada and down to Houston, Texas before making my way back to LA in mid-late sept, but as fate would have it I caught a long ride from a Navy guy in Arizon who dropped me of less than 20 miles from my apartment in Torrance during rush hour traffic ; he left the freeway that was going into Torrance and dropped me off at the base of the off ramp, at the same time telling me that I should get back on the freeway and it would take me to my destination ; however, as I was getting my backpack out of his vehicle I heard a car horn hooting and saw that a brown car had stopped illegally on the zebra lines back up on the Freeway and the driver was motioning me to run back up and get in ; not quite believing my good luck I instantly ran up there even though other drivers were hooting their horns cos he was illegally parked .. as I got into the new brown car the driver a well dressed fellow in his 30s greeted me like an old friend ; infact I thought he must have been a ''holy roller'' cos he was euphoric ; he asked me where I was from etc and then offered me a beer but I declined as by that time I had recognised that he was an obvious *advertiser censored* ; he then asked me if I wanted to go to a Bar , but I naturally declined by pointing out that I was only 19 .. he persisted and asked me if I wanted to go to a party at his house in Long Beach , but I politely declined and as my apartment In in Torrance was coming up just asked him to let me out at the correct location .. when he did stop I couldn't help but notice that his whole demeanor had changed from euphoria to like an angry cat .. when I got back into the apartment I said to the other folks living there that ''I had just finished an epic odyssey around America and yet the last person to drop me off was an obvious *advertiser censored* , and so we just all laughed , but little did I know that I had just escaped certain death , even though it was many years later when watching a crime Doc that I instantly recognised the creep, Randy Kraft ; but what still surprised me is that he could claim so many victims when it was obvious to me within a few minutes of getting into his car that he was a *advertiser censored* (shrug) it's simply a mystery to me ; he was charming and charismatic , but how could any young man fail to recognise his intentions ?
It's possible that JACKSON ran into Kraft , but America and especially California, is such a dangerous place for a young traveller so it's possible that he was murdered by someone else .. who knows ? but the creep I ran into was both confident and reckless and apparently unable to control his lustful emotions as he was taking a huge risk , stopping illegally, on the freeway during rush hour traffic and having other drivers point and gesture at him , but apparently that didn't spook him one bit as he had been getting away with it for so long he assumed no one would remember him or his car number plate .. he was correct in his assumptions
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He did own a brown Datsun which he was driving when he was arrested in 1983.
 
I don’t know if someone already said this, and it’s a little off topic but I thought maybe England was 20 year old Dikran Knadjian. He vanished July 24 1972 from Yosemite National Park, assumed injured in wilderness. He had a British accent, and was only vacationing in the US while studying at Cambridge in England. I’m not very familiar with Kraft so I may be completely off.
 
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