Reasonable & Just
United We Stand
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. dbm
That's the problem with no-knock - people don't know it's the police breaking into their homes. Needlessly dangerous. As for the possibility that an LEO might be dead if the the man had fired? That didn't happen, though. Mr. Locke was the one who was killed, and for no good reason.bbm
That is certainly true !
I support people's rights to defend themselves in the event of a home invasion.
If, however, it's LE, it's wise not to have a gun in your hand -- as LE can't predict what you're going to do.
From the msm articles, LE did not fire because the weapon was on his nightstand -- he was holding it.
If they told him to drop it --he may not have listened ?
This entire situation was sad and unfortunate, but it was avoidable.
IF Amir had fired, a LEO might be dead or even someone else in that apartment.
Bullets can travel and a neighbor might have been killed :
4-year-old boy killed in Woodlawn is latest child shot in Chicago - Chicago Sun-Times
Imo.
bbmThat's the problem with no-knock - people don't know it's the police breaking into their homes. Needlessly dangerous. As for the possibility that an LEO might be dead if the the man had fired? That didn't happen, though. Mr. Locke was the one who was killed, and for no good reason.
Ita.This wasn't an execution. I don't want to live in a world where LE does not have tools to protect themselves. Moo.
bbmWell, the point is to shoot them before they shoot you.
I can't see how any cop would be in trouble over this since they had a warrant. Not sure what they are going to do about that type of warrant though. Seems like there are cases where there is no way LE should announce their presence. Best bet to avoid this situation is not to be around any criminals.
bbm
Lavender bolded : Actually, in Amir Locke's case, LE did not, "...barge it guns blazing...".
That is not how it happened, there's bodycam footage released by LE to support this.
They did not shoot until they saw the gun in Amir's hand.
They acted within protocol for the situation.
Green bolded : Respectfully, there is another view.
There is nothing "mental" about LE acting in a manner to defend themselves in an extremely hostile situation.
No one should expect LE to wait until the perp fires the first shot.
If that were the case, we might not have a police force at all and every man or woman for themselves.
Complete lawlessness without justice.
If it weren't for LE, there'd be no civilized society and instead there'd be anarchy which might give rise to a dictatorship.
Imo.
bbm
Good point. ^^^
But I'd imagine LE identified themselves, correct ?
From the articles it sounded like even though AL didn't fire his gun, he had it in his hand ?
Wouldn't LE perceive this as a threat ?
Imo.
I wouldn't exactly describe it as 'without incident'.This outcome here was foreseeable and is inevitable with no knocks. It unnecessarily creates a dangerous situation. Having a warrant may make it legal but doesn't make it right. In the end, they were able to arrest Speed without incident without using a no knock.
No-knock warrants: Growing consensus in law enforcement is risks outweigh rewards - CNN
I wouldn't exactly describe it as 'without incident'.
''On February 6, 2022, officers located Speed in Winona, Minnesota. When officers approached Speed, he attempted to run away. An officer grabbed Speed’s jacket. Speed struggled out of his jacket but was stopped and arrested. Officers searched Speed’s jacket. Speed had a loaded gun in his jacket.''
Well, the point is to shoot them before they shoot you.
I can't see how any cop would be in trouble over this since they had a warrant. Not sure what they are going to do about that type of warrant though. Seems like there are cases where there is no way LE should announce their presence. Best bet to avoid this situation is not to be around any criminals.
This was my first though, @Gardenista. My second one was, with the housing and rental prices nowadays, maybe people who are not criminals but poor are compelled to lodge with criminals, or in crime-laden areas, and carry guns? And sleep with guns under the pillows? I understand, this shooting was not premeditated, the victim merely ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, but it was his, only, life.
It’s a dangerous lifestyle and a person would put themselves at risk.Lodging with criminals, living in crime-laden areas, and sleeping with a gun are not crimes. And even if they were, the justice system decides the punishment - not LE.
It’s a dangerous lifestyle and a person would put themselves at risk.
This outcome here was foreseeable and is inevitable with no knocks. It unnecessarily creates a dangerous situation. Having a warrant may make it legal but doesn't make it right. In the end, they were able to arrest Speed without incident without using a no knock.
No-knock warrants: Growing consensus in law enforcement is risks outweigh rewards - CNN
I don't think they should be banned entirely. They can be necessary is some cases. But they need to be a rare occurance. Judges need to do a better job in scrutinizing them.They need to get rid of "no-knocks"-- they are dangerous and needless deaths of innocent people occur too often. It is so damn simple you cannot believe they still carry out such an inane action.
Not at all. But most of us don’t put themselves in such dangerous situations that we have to sleep with a gun.That sounds dangerously close to blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt.