Leslie Van Houten up for parole again

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Derph said:
I can't go thru life thinking that a person is irredeemable and can not turn their life around when given the chance.
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Respectfully snipped for focus.

I totally agree.

Some people are clearly irredeemable, but not all.

And people who committed equally if not more heinous crimes have been paroled much earlier than LVH was.

I have to believe that there is a reason they are all called departments of corrections and not departments of punishment.
 
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To add to my previous post:

I still believe that LVH would have been paroled for her crime long ago had it not been attached to the infamy of Manson.

As I said, people who have committed equally or more heinous crimes have been paroled much earlier than she was.
 
For example. Snipped

apnews.com

Parole allowed for man who buried California victim alive

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Gov. Gavin Newsom has allowed the release of a killer who served four decades in prison for the murder of a developmentally disabled California man who was buried alive, officials said Monday.
apnews.com apnews.com


SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Gov. Gavin Newsom has allowed the release of a killer who served four decades in prison for the murder of a developmentally disabled California man who was buried alive, officials said Monday.

...

Parole commissioners balanced Weidert’s youthful immaturity and lack of criminal record at the time and decades of good behavior in prison against what they called “an incredibly gruesome, violent, horrific murder” in deciding he is no longer a risk, according to a hearing transcript.
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LinasK said:
It wasn't a "mistake"! She willingly went knowing that she was going to murder people and she was vicious- 16 stab wounds. She felt that she missed out on the fun of the Tate murders. She's admitted this in interviews. She was sentenced to the Death Penalty. She deserves to die in prison for her crime as Susan Atkins did. That's my opinion, and it's never going to change. And I too have studied this case since it happened, I was living in LA at the time.
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I'm not going to take the word of a damaged, lovesick, child whose mind was blown up by daily acid trips for months and programing by a psychopath as the truth. She was with the Family for over a year before the murders. I would not be surprised if they dropped acid some 300 times just at the Spahn Ranch alone.Her reality was not reliable. Not then and her memory of things has to be questioned. Nothing that was said in that trial by those girls can be taken as the truth. It was all an act. Charlie told them what to say and do. If he could get the girls to take the blame, he doesn't go back to prison. That's quite a motivation for him to keep those girls acting crazy. They were willing to die for Charlie. Lying and acting was nothing to them. None of it was real to them. He prayed on their insecurities, plied them with drugs, threatened and beat some of them multiple times and controlled everything they did. So yeah, her mistake was falling in with Manson and getting caught up in his manipulations. Once out of his grasp LVH flew straight and never so much as had one single infraction in 53 years of incarceration. Fifty-Three YEARS IN PRISON. She was not a career criminal. Not a multiple offender. That says something to me.

As far as the death sentence is concerned. That trial was farce.No way, no how it was fair. A complete circus. There is enough dirt on Bugliosi that he would have been disbarred if he were practicing today. A snake prosecuted a snake. Tried today it would have been a very, very different trial so I hold no confidence in that verdict. There should have been a retrial, which ironically enough, would have probably happened if the death penalty verdict had held.

I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine. I respect your opinion. I just have a different one. Again, sorry if it makes you angry, that's not my intention.
 
Derph said:
I'm not going to take the word of a damaged, lovesick, child whose mind was blown up by daily acid trips for months and programing by a psychopath as the truth. She was with the Family for over a year before the murders. I would not be surprised if they dropped acid some 300 times just at the Spahn Ranch alone.Her reality was not reliable. Not then and her memory of things has to be questioned. Nothing that was said in that trial by those girls can be taken as the truth. It was all an act. Charlie told them what to say and do. If he could get the girls to take the blame, he doesn't go back to prison. That's quite a motivation for him to keep those girls acting crazy. They were willing to die for Charlie. Lying and acting was nothing to them. None of it was real to them. He prayed on their insecurities, plied them with drugs, threatened and beat some of them multiple times and controlled everything they did. So yeah, her mistake was falling in with Manson and getting caught up in his manipulations. Once out of his grasp LVH flew straight and never so much as had one single infraction in 53 years of incarceration. Fifty-Three YEARS IN PRISON. She was not a career criminal. Not a multiple offender. That says something to me.

As far as the death sentence is concerned. That trial was farce.No way, no how it was fair. A complete circus. There is enough dirt on Bugliosi that he would have been disbarred if he were practicing today. A snake prosecuted a snake. Tried today it would have been a very, very different trial so I hold no confidence in that verdict. There should have been a retrial, which ironically enough, would have probably happened if the death penalty verdict had held.

I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine. I respect your opinion. I just have a different one. Again, sorry if it makes you angry, that's not my intention.
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Van Houten was convicted in 1971 of two counts of first-degree murder and one count of conspiracy to commit the Tate murders.

Totally lucid, after the murders Van Houten changed clothes and drank chocolate milk from the couple's fridge, according to The New York Times, citing parole records. No one taped the knife to her hand, Leslie managed the knife all by herself and was lucid enough to recall all the details and her mind wasn't disabled by drugs.

You say you will root for her according to your first post about her, this is your second post minimizing her involvement and accusing the State of an unfair prosecution.

Root for a lady who stabbed a mother and grandmother around 16 times depriving her family of their mother and grandmother. The rest of us on here will give our compassion to the family members and root for them.

Because Van Houten was not part of the Sharon Tate attack, court papers show she felt "left out" and wanted to join in the next violence.

Van Houten gladly and proudly joined in the next night of violence hoping to start a race war.
In years of testimony and interviews, Van Houten told authorities that after being taken to the LaBiancas' residence, she held Rosemary LaBianca down with a pillowcase as other Manson followers, Patricia Krenwinkel and Charles "Tex" Watson, stabbed her. Watson then told Van Houton to “do something." He passed her a knife and Van Houten stabbed Rosemary in the back around 16 times. She admitted to stabbing Rosemary LaBianca over a dozen times.

The word “war” was carved into Leno LaBianca's stomach, from which an ivory-handled carving fork protruded. “Death to Pigs” was scrawled with their blood on the living room wall.

 The LaBianca killings took place shortly after Manson's cult members murdered actress Sharon Tate, who was pregnant, along with Abigail Folger, Wojciech Frykowski, Steven Parent and Jay Sebring.

Leno and Rosemary La Bianca

Leno and Rosemary LaBianca. FAMILY PHOTO

people.com

All About Leslie Van Houten, Who Was Convicted of Killing Leno and Rosemary LaBianca as Manson Follower

In 1971, Leslie Van Houten was convicted, along with other members of the Manson “family,” of the brutal 1969 killings of Los Angeles grocer Leno LaBianca and his wife Rosemary.
people.com people.com
 
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Wow, I was blown away by this. When I heard the news, I took off work and went and sat at the beach and appreciated her freedom and my freedom and freedom in general.

Her freedom inspires me and restores my faith in humanity. It shows me that the system, though very flawed is not broken. It shows me that not everyone is driven by vengeance, cold-heartedness, and an inability to forgive. It gives me hope because it aligns with Bryan Stevenson's belief that "we are all more than the worst thing we have ever done." Her freedom demonstrates that after being locked up for 53 mf'in years, people can find redemption and be reborn, even in the most oppressive of circumstances. With people who don't even know you, hating your f'in guts and wishing you were dead & could and should never smile, or experience joy ever again in LIFE because their loved one who you killed will never laugh or experience joy ever again. So you should just suffer forever and ever. I am so glad that life doesn't work this way.

Her story gives me hope, that when I have to freaking go to the next parole board hearing for the murderer who killed my brother, maybe, just maybe, the board will share that he has obtained a bachelor's and master's degree and that he thinks about my brother every day, has given up drugs and that he struggles to live with the weight of his actions and genuinely desires to make a positive impact in the world. Instead of seething at me and yelling "f you bish, I'll kill you too."

I don't know where these attitudes come from where folks think people don't change and can't change. Or they are trying to pull a fast one and are not sincere and are trying to get over on us. I think it's a spiritual malady. There is nothing wrong with having compassion, mercy, and promoting peace even for mf'ers who may not deserve it because what I get is the greatest gift of all...inner peace!

BRAVA LVH, I hope you go sit at the beach and enjoy your freedom. you earned it!
 
Derph said:
...As far as the death sentence is concerned. That trial was farce.No way, no how it was fair. A complete circus. There is enough dirt on Bugliosi that he would have been disbarred if he were practicing today. A snake prosecuted a snake. Tried today it would have been a very, very different trial so I hold no confidence in that verdict. There should have been a retrial, which ironically enough, would have probably happened if the death penalty verdict had held...
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Just a comment and a correction regarding Leslie Van Houghton's trials

The first murder trial was indeed a complete circus - made so by the defendants themselves, Carving X's on their foreheads, laughing, smirking, and singing throughout the proceedings.

As to a retrial: Van Houghton was arrested and charged in relation to the 1969 murders of Leno and Rosemary La Bianca. She was convicted and sentenced to death, but a 1972 California Supreme Court ruling found the death penalty unconstitutional (as it existed at that time), resulting in her sentence being commuted to life in prison. Her conviction was overturned in a 1976 appellate court decision which granted her a RETRIAL. Her second trial ended with a deadlocked jury and a mistrial. At her third trial in 1978, she was convicted of two counts of murder and one count of conspiracy to commit murder and sentenced to seven years to life in prison.
 
Derph said:
I changed my mind. I'm now 100% convinced that Leslie earned and deserved to be released after reading so many comments saying she should be kept in there for the rest of her life. I'm pretty shocked by the responses actually. Again, I've studied this case for years. I'm well aware of what she did. I'm not excusing it. It's not such a cut/dry/black/white thing however. There are waay to many unanswered questions.

I think prison actually saved Leslie from a life of crime. Go look up how most of the rest of " The Family" turned out. Some got in a shootout with police while robbing a gun store. Others went on to kill again. One tried to assassinate the President of the United States. LVH corrected and rehabilitated herself while she was in there. It obviously did her some good.

There are PLENTY of people who deserve to be in prison for the rest of their lives. Leslie Van Hauten isn't one of them. She made a mistake. A horrible, horrible mistake. She's had the horror of that night looking over her shoulder for over 50 yrs. She paid for it and will be paying for it mentally for the rest of her life. I hope she's able to contribute something positive to society. Hopefully she can put some good into the world. I'm rooting for her. I can't go thru life thinking that a person is irredeemable and can not turn their life around when given the chance.

I know this is a very unpopular opinion. I stand by it. Sorry if it's upsetting to some.
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She made a mistake?? Oops I accidentally participated in brutally murdering someone?

IMO a mistake is leaving the milk on the counter overnight. JMO


How would you feel if it was your mother, sister, or daughter who was murdered?
 
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weedemout said:
Wow, I was blown away by this. When I heard the news, I took off work and went and sat at the beach and appreciated her freedom and my freedom and freedom in general.

Her freedom inspires me and restores my faith in humanity. It shows me that the system, though very flawed is not broken. It shows me that not everyone is driven by vengeance, cold-heartedness, and an inability to forgive. It gives me hope because it aligns with Bryan Stevenson's belief that "we are all more than the worst thing we have ever done." Her freedom demonstrates that after being locked up for 53 mf'in years, people can find redemption and be reborn, even in the most oppressive of circumstances. With people who don't even know you, hating your f'in guts and wishing you were dead & could and should never smile, or experience joy ever again in LIFE because their loved one who you killed will never laugh or experience joy ever again. So you should just suffer forever and ever. I am so glad that life doesn't work this way.

Her story gives me hope, that when I have to freaking go to the next parole board hearing for the murderer who killed my brother, maybe, just maybe, the board will share that he has obtained a bachelor's and master's degree and that he thinks about my brother every day, has given up drugs and that he struggles to live with the weight of his actions and genuinely desires to make a positive impact in the world. Instead of seething at me and yelling "f you bish, I'll kill you too."

I don't know where these attitudes come from where folks think people don't change and can't change. Or they are trying to pull a fast one and are not sincere and are trying to get over on us. I think it's a spiritual malady. There is nothing wrong with having compassion, mercy, and promoting peace even for mf'ers who may not deserve it because what I get is the greatest gift of all...inner peace!

BRAVA LVH, I hope you go sit at the beach and enjoy your freedom. you earned it!
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Your "don't know" paragraph generalizes many decent, compassionate, merciful people who don't deserve your judgement. However, that is the beauty of this forum. There are many thoughtfully written posts and room for many opposing opinions. My opinion is as valid as yours. It is irrelevant to me that a previous monster killer was paroled. I have referenced the Manson killers in this thread. I don't care if she has learned how to be good in prison. I don't think she deserved any freedom other than what she had in incarceration. Aren't we grateful to have this forum for our own freedom.
 
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weedemout said:
Wow, I was blown away by this. When I heard the news, I took off work and went and sat at the beach and appreciated her freedom and my freedom and freedom in general.

Her freedom inspires me and restores my faith in humanity. It shows me that the system, though very flawed is not broken. It shows me that not everyone is driven by vengeance, cold-heartedness, and an inability to forgive. It gives me hope because it aligns with Bryan Stevenson's belief that "we are all more than the worst thing we have ever done." Her freedom demonstrates that after being locked up for 53 mf'in years, people can find redemption and be reborn, even in the most oppressive of circumstances. With people who don't even know you, hating your f'in guts and wishing you were dead & could and should never smile, or experience joy ever again in LIFE because their loved one who you killed will never laugh or experience joy ever again. So you should just suffer forever and ever. I am so glad that life doesn't work this way.

Her story gives me hope, that when I have to freaking go to the next parole board hearing for the murderer who killed my brother, maybe, just maybe, the board will share that he has obtained a bachelor's and master's degree and that he thinks about my brother every day, has given up drugs and that he struggles to live with the weight of his actions and genuinely desires to make a positive impact in the world. Instead of seething at me and yelling "f you bish, I'll kill you too."

I don't know where these attitudes come from where folks think people don't change and can't change. Or they are trying to pull a fast one and are not sincere and are trying to get over on us. I think it's a spiritual malady. There is nothing wrong with having compassion, mercy, and promoting peace even for mf'ers who may not deserve it because what I get is the greatest gift of all...inner peace!

BRAVA LVH, I hope you go sit at the beach and enjoy your freedom. you earned it!
Click to expand...
I really like your post.

ps: I'm sorry about your brother.
 
weedemout said:
Wow, I was blown away by this. When I heard the news, I took off work and went and sat at the beach and appreciated her freedom and my freedom and freedom in general.

Her freedom inspires me and restores my faith in humanity. It shows me that the system, though very flawed is not broken. It shows me that not everyone is driven by vengeance, cold-heartedness, and an inability to forgive. It gives me hope because it aligns with Bryan Stevenson's belief that "we are all more than the worst thing we have ever done." Her freedom demonstrates that after being locked up for 53 mf'in years, people can find redemption and be reborn, even in the most oppressive of circumstances. With people who don't even know you, hating your f'in guts and wishing you were dead & could and should never smile, or experience joy ever again in LIFE because their loved one who you killed will never laugh or experience joy ever again. So you should just suffer forever and ever. I am so glad that life doesn't work this way.

Her story gives me hope, that when I have to freaking go to the next parole board hearing for the murderer who killed my brother, maybe, just maybe, the board will share that he has obtained a bachelor's and master's degree and that he thinks about my brother every day, has given up drugs and that he struggles to live with the weight of his actions and genuinely desires to make a positive impact in the world. Instead of seething at me and yelling "f you bish, I'll kill you too."

I don't know where these attitudes come from where folks think people don't change and can't change. Or they are trying to pull a fast one and are not sincere and are trying to get over on us. I think it's a spiritual malady. There is nothing wrong with having compassion, mercy, and promoting peace even for mf'ers who may not deserve it because what I get is the greatest gift of all...inner peace!

BRAVA LVH, I hope you go sit at the beach and enjoy your freedom. you earned it!
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Emphasis mine.

Only my take on this release of LVH : Wanting a cold blooded killer to remain locked away is not cold hearted, nor is it vengeance, nor an inability to forgive.
Rather it is needing to see justice for lives that were taken in a painful, brutal, and prolonged manner.
Imagine what this did to the relatives -- to have their loved ones pass in this manner.

Even though some relatives are now passed away I doubt the decades have dulled the pain for those family members who still survive.
My .02 is that this was a slap in the face for the victims, and for their still living relatives.

What is hurtful is that LVH can now enjoy a meal at a restaurant, read articles on the internet, go for walks, and form friendships ; while her victims will never see another sunrise, or receive a hug from a loved one ?

The justice system failed these victims.
My compassion is for those who had their lives stolen in a terrible way.
People who had done the Manson family no wrong at all, just living their lives.
Only my opinion.
 
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TDoc72 said:
I don’t think she should’ve been paroled. However, I don’t think she’s likely to reoffend.
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Her being a danger isn't the issue, it's that she didn't serve her full sentence for the viciousness of her crimes. She originally received the Death Penalty. Her cohort Susan Atkins died in prison. That's what she deserved.
 
In addition to Fromme that I mentioned earlier have a look at the Manson family rat...Linda Kassabian...who gave it all up for immunity...she walked. She was a loser too...never amounted to anything...a waste of oxygen...ended up a crack addict alongside her daughter who she likely destroyed by virtue of association. Those people are all utterly worthless. Stone cold killers evil burnt up animals not human beings. Perhaps they don't deserve to die but they don't deserve to live in society because of what they've been involved in...my opinion. Anyone who thinks LVH should be forgiven and paroled ought to reread a few threads on this site just to remind them...again my opinion.
 
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Chimera said:
Emphasis mine.

Only my take on this release of LVH : Wanting a cold blooded killer to remain locked away is not cold hearted, nor is it vengeance, nor an inability to forgive.
Rather it is needing to see justice for lives that were taken in a painful, brutal, and prolonged manner.
Imagine what this did to the relatives -- to have their loved ones pass in this manner.

Even though some relatives are now passed away I doubt the decades have dulled the pain for those family members who still survive.
My .02 is that this was a slap in the face for the victims, and for their still living relatives.

What is hurtful is that LVH can now enjoy a meal at a restaurant, read articles on the internet, go for walks, and form friendships ; while her victims will never see another sunrise, or receive a hug from a loved one ?

The justice system failed these victims.
My compassion is for those who had their lives stolen in a terrible way.
People who had done the Manson family no wrong at all, just living their lives.
Only my opinion.
Click to expand...
@Chimera Beautifully stated IMO. This is how my heart can't help but feel, personally. Thanks for this respectful post.
 
Chimera said:
Emphasis mine.

Only my take on this release of LVH : Wanting a cold blooded killer to remain locked away is not cold hearted, nor is it vengeance, nor an inability to forgive.
Rather it is needing to see justice for lives that were taken in a painful, brutal, and prolonged manner.
Imagine what this did to the relatives -- to have their loved ones pass in this manner.

Even though some relatives are now passed away I doubt the decades have dulled the pain for those family members who still survive.
My .02 is that this was a slap in the face for the victims, and for their still living relatives.

What is hurtful is that LVH can now enjoy a meal at a restaurant, read articles on the internet, go for walks, and form friendships ; while her victims will never see another sunrise, or receive a hug from a loved one ?

The justice system failed these victims.
My compassion is for those who had their lives stolen in a terrible way.
People who had done the Manson family no wrong at all, just living their lives.
Only my opinion.
Click to expand...
@Chimera Beautifully stated IMO. This is how my heart can't help but feel, personally. Thanks for this respectful post.
 
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