Canada- Sharif Rahman, owner of the Curry House restaurant, suffered brain injury after assault by 3 non-paying men, Owen Sound, Ontario, 17 Aug. '23

[JDG]

Owen Sound is in Southwestern Ontario.

IMO, restaurants do not publicize a lot of dine and dash incidents as they do not need/want copycat crimes.

They often just absorb the cost or the employees pay for the theft at the time and prices go up, same as theft from shops.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't think 'dine and dash' has anything to do with a challenge. It's criminal behavior that some people engage in. Many of them are not argumentative, they don't complain about the food, the service, etc. If anything, they engage the servers to disarm them. There was a guy in Toronto once who within a few short weeks basically bamboozled a lot of high end restaurants in Yorkville. He'd come in dressed in a suit carrying parcels that were wrapped like presents. He always wanted a window seat to watch the action. He would sit and eat, talk to the wait staff, then all of a sudden he'd rap on the window and say something like, 'OMG, that's my old high school coach!" or something similar and he'd say 'I'm just going to catch up with him, do you mind?" Nobody minded because he was a nice guy. He ran out and left all his parcels behind and never came back. The parcels were empty boxes. He racked up a pretty impressive total of skipped out meals and he got away with it because he never gave any indication that he was skeevy or suspicious.

People who get into arguments with waitstaff or owners that escalate into physical altercations had no plan to walk out of a restaurant without paying. Why make yourself memorable? They walk out because they ramped up the argument and don't want to deal with the cops, pissed off owners and diners who can identify them.

 

[LadyL]

Someone needs to interview the nephew, so many questions would be answered. Not sure why this wouldn't have happened?

interview by who? the police would've of course done interviews as part of their investigation
why do you think it didn't happen?
if you're referring to the media, they can only interview willing witnesses and he is under no obligation to submit to a media interview

 

[Cedars]

interview by who? the police would've of course done interviews as part of their investigation
why do you think it didn't happen?
if you're referring to the media, they can only interview willing witnesses and he is under no obligation to submit to a media interview

Also, police often request witnesses not speak publicly. LE want to make decisions about what info to release and not. They hold stuff back, to ensure no false arrests, and also, it depends on their investigative strategy.

Particularly in Canada, witnesses rarely say anything.

We can speculate, but I'm under no illusion I'm going to solve the crime - unless I notice 2 guys with similar hair and clothing.

JMO

 

[helix527]

Though there are many possible origins to the clothing as well as a possiblity that the clothing has no common origin....

Your observation is reminiscent of certain big family shoppers that I have known going by the discount rack at Walmart and grabbing 4-5 men's T-shirts that were budget priced to start with. They then toss two large discount packs of black socks into their basket before leaving the department.

I have always respected such parents for the sacrifices they make. But... those sacrifices can produce a certain fuzzy "look" in regards to attire. "Twinning" sans style and family standard socks can be part of that look.

I keep on going back and forth on whether these are city residents out for a long weekend at the cottage, or local “townies.” Their clothing seems to suggest the former, but their build screams small town Ontario.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Also, police often request witnesses not speak publicly. LE want to make decisions about what info to release and not. They hold stuff back, to ensure no false arrests, and also, it depends on their investigative strategy.

Particularly in Canada, witnesses rarely say anything.

We can speculate, but I'm under no illusion I'm going to solve the crime - unless I notice 2 guys with similar hair and clothing.

JMO

I don’t think any of us are under the illusion that we’re going to solve the crime. I believe the more this story is shared and public pressure builds up, one of the three might turn themselves in or someone close to them will call in a tip.

Personally I’ve followed to build up my hope there’s enough evidence to find them. I wholeheartedly believe there is and they’ll be caught. Guys driving an older model car and two of them look easily identifiable? Likely had cell phones and can be tracked by their activities before the murder? It’s only a matter of time before they’re caught, imo.

If one of them, or anyone, googles this story this thread will show up. 100% all three are following social media regarding the case, imo. The same with everyone around them who knows what they did and are being complicit by staying quiet. Sometimes the bad guys join us because we’re great at digging up and posting the latest.

I’m not overstating what we’re doing here, just saying that in general the more social media coverage the better the chances that there will be a break in the case.

 

[Cryptic]

IMO, they went into the restaurant to ‘dine and dash’, not sure why they became violent thugs/murderers.

Maybe they were not ordinary losers?

An arrest- and even a conviction for low level theft is not going to impact the lives of ordinary losers. Some such losers may even be used to it. But.... what if they were losers, but not ordinary losers?

Rather, they have community standing from one of them being a local politician, small town doctor, small town successful business owner, pastor, police chief, School Principal etc. An arrest for theft will cost them alot of social standing- and maybe their job position as well.

One member coined the term "Duggars" to describe their vague look. Maybe they come from a large religious family with little fashion sense, a limited budget and "family standard" buys of socks and T-shirts. Father is the pastor?

Ordinary losers use their street sense: " 'Been arrested before and I know the game. Night in jail (again) followed by deferred adjudication and....easy community service with old friends- been there, done that- so what".

So, ordinary losers dont resist (Not worth it- yawn. We"ll try to talk our way out when the police show.) But these losers resist in a panic because they have a lot to lose in regards to income loss, social standing, or both.

 

[J Sleuth]

I don’t think any of us are under the illusion that we’re going to solve the crime. I believe the more this story is shared and public pressure builds up, one of the three might turn themselves in or someone close to them will call in a tip.

Personally I’ve followed to build up my hope there’s enough evidence to find them. I wholeheartedly believe there is and they’ll be caught. Guys driving an older model car and two of them look easily identifiable? Likely had cell phones and can be tracked by their activities before the murder? It’s only a matter of time before they’re caught, imo.

If one of them, or anyone, googles this story this thread will show up. 100% all three are following social media regarding the case, imo. The same with everyone around them who knows what they did and are being complicit by staying quiet. Sometimes the bad guys join us because we’re great at digging up and posting the latest.

I’m not overstating what we’re doing here, just saying that in general the more social media coverage the better the chances that there will be a break in the case.

I would like to think that everything is being done however so much time has passed that my fears of a police turf war have worsened. Owen Sound Police do not have the resources to investigate this properly IMO and I also suspect that the OPP is being less than full cooperative. “OK OSP, it’s your show.” If you know what I mean. Purely speculation on my part.

 

[branmuffin]

I would like to think that everything is being done however so much time has passed that my fears of a police turf war have worsened. Owen Sound Police do not have the resources to investigate this properly IMO and I also suspect that the OPP is being less than full cooperative. “OK OSP, it’s your show.” If you know what I mean. Purely speculation on my part.

I can't see a turf war between the OPP and OSPS. The OSPS would be foolish not to access the resources the OPP have. I'm sure OS has marine units but I doubt they have helicopters and TRU team vehicles and state of the art technology. I used to work for the OPP.

There was pushback back in the day when many small municipal and city police forces were amalgamated/absorbed into the OPP fold. But the reality was they didn't have the budgets to continue effective policing. And it's cheaper in the long run when one entity has the purchasing power over numerous small police services. Imagine how much cheaper it is to buy all your vehicles through one source. All your uniforms, weapons, bullet proof vests, etc. I'm sure the OPP gets a better deal with Ford than OSPS when they need to buy new vehicles.

The smaller forces couldn't compete with the OPP for salaries, training etc. although all police force recruits get trained at the Police College in Aylmer since every cop in Ontario, regardless of which force they were hired with. Except the RCMP.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Faint hope: if it’s an older model car and they obviously know the colour and possibly make, year and model by now, maybe the car tag will be linked to a license belonging to one of the three.

 

[branmuffin]

Faint hope: if it’s an older model car and they obviously know the colour and possibly make, year and model by now, maybe the car tag will be linked to a license belonging to one of the three.

I really hope that LE posted those images of the two running away from the restaurant all over town. And not just the town but every road that entered a cottage area. In Walmart, in hotels and restaurants, in bike shops. Any where were towns people and out of towners go to. I really believe that they have been protected by family members who know what they did. If they were summer people and left abruptly that should also be posted on sites that rent out properties. It's really the only way to narrow down where they came from if they are not locals. It's frustrating that the nephew couldn't provide better details regarding the men. You'd think it would be seared in your brain.

 

[J Sleuth]

I really hope that LE posted those images of the two running away from the restaurant all over town. And not just the town but every road that entered a cottage area. In Walmart, in hotels and restaurants, in bike shops. Any where were towns people and out of towners go to. I really believe that they have been protected by family members who know what they did. If they were summer people and left abruptly that should also be posted on sites that rent out properties. It's really the only way to narrow down where they came from if they are not locals. It's frustrating that the nephew couldn't provide better details regarding the men. You'd think it would be seared in your brain.

I live in the area and I never saw one posting.

 

[branmuffin]

I live in the area and I never saw one posting.

Really? Why isn't the family asking for posters to hang everywhere? Where are the community members who would support them by hanging them in their own communities? It's a lost opportunity. I know most LE agencies aren't in the business of posting images around town, they are only responsible for sending the info over CPIC to other police forces.

When people go missing the families usually engage the community and many people step up to help. It's unfortunate here, where there are actual images of the vehicle and two of perps that was not exploited in early days. It should have been done as soon as SR was assaulted and it would be fresh in people's memories, especially since the case went from assault to manslaughter. In this case, they need an image of Sharif and bigger pictures of the two perps.

Edited to add: I like the idea of posters plastered everywhere because if there's an area where they've been taken down, I'd be canvassing that area.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Really? Why isn't the family asking for posters to hang everywhere? Where are the community members who would support them by hanging them in their own communities? It's a lost opportunity. I know most LE agencies aren't in the business of posting images around town, they are only responsible for sending the info over the wires to other police forces. When people go missing the families usually engage the community and many people step up to help. It's unfortunate here, where there are actual images of the vehicle and two of perps that was not exploited in early days. It should have been done as soon as SR was assaulted and it would be fresh in people's memories, especially since the case went from assault to manslaughter. In this case, they need an image of Sharif and bigger pictures of the two perps.

I volunteered for a search for a teacher who went missing apparently while out for a jog. Part of what we did as volunteers was to put up weather-proof flyers because as well as the reminder he was missing, we were hoping to maybe find his jacket, shoes, glasses or mp3 player he was carrying.

It was a big struggle to get permission to put those flyers up, and even in places where they were permitted we found people quickly took them down.

We persisted, though. We kept a public FB record of where we searched and placed the flyers. We did our best to be mindful that despite our good intentions there were reasons people may not wish to have them in their communities or businesses.

Maybe a billboard might work? Although I’d persist with flyers.

 

[branmuffin]

I volunteered for a search for a teacher who went missing apparently while out for a jog. Part of what we did as volunteers was to put up weather-proof flyers because as well as the reminder he was missing, we were hoping to maybe find his jacket, shoes, glasses or mp3 player he was carrying.

It was a big struggle to get permission to put those flyers up, and even in places where they were permitted we found people quickly took them down.

We persisted, though. We kept a public FB record of where we searched and placed the flyers. We did our best to be mindful that despite our good intentions there were reasons people may not wish to have them in their communities or businesses.

Maybe a billboard might work? Although I’d persist with flyers.

I mean I get it. People don't want their communities associated with negative stuff even if it's not related to drugs or gangs or whatever. But it does seem a bit heartless not to put up a missing person poster. If you can put up a missing cat poster a human should be okay. Unless it was someone with a high risk lifestyle like a hooker or drug addict then I guess they could see that as reflective of their community.

 

[Cedars]

I volunteered for a search for a teacher who went missing apparently while out for a jog. Part of what we did as volunteers was to put up weather-proof flyers because as well as the reminder he was missing, we were hoping to maybe find his jacket, shoes, glasses or mp3 player he was carrying.

However, Sharif is not missing.

People are usually ok with missing posters, for a while, but I don't recall ever seeing a "wanted" poster. That's like something out of the Wild West, or the FBI Most Wanted page. There are many crimes in every community, I don't agree people should have to live in an environment cluttered up with police posters.

The exception is brutal crimes against children. <modsnip - off topic>

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

However, Sharif is not missing.

People are usually ok with missing posters, for a while, but I don't recall ever seeing a "wanted" poster. That's like something out of the Wild West, or the FBI Most Wanted page. There are many crimes in every community, I don't agree people should have to live in an environment cluttered up with police posters.

The exception is brutal crimes against children. <modsnip - off topic>

JMO

I understand. The question was about the absence of flyers in the community and I was trying to show that even with a ‘missing’ poster it’s difficult to find a place to host them (understandably).

Maybe targeted flyers sent to auto body shops might help in this case, I’m not sure.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I found the Owen Sound community’s response to what happened to Mr. Rahman very moving.

Large crowd gathers for walking vigil through downtown Owen Sound

At least a couple thousand people took part in the event in support of Sharif Rahman, his family, staff and those who live and work in the downtown.

www.owensoundsuntimes.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/sharif-rahman-remembered-1.6949313

Photos of suspects in violent assault of business owner released

Owen Sound police have released photos of two suspects in an assault that left the owner of a downtown restaurant with critical injuries

lfpress.com

 

[Astroid-ki]

I just listened to the podcast on this case by True Crime Garage. They pointed out that the bill was $40, which is a low amount for three men out eating. Which made me wonder if only one man ate at the restaurant, with the other two joining him later. One meal, plus drinks? Why isnt there any footage of the third man fleeing? Is it because he went a different way, to a different car? One he arrived in earlier? If there had only been one meal plus drinks, there is a very good chance everything on the table was cleared- it was closing time.
Were there other customers still in the restaurant? Any who could confirm what time(s) the men arrived?
Could the unusual clothes be to do with sport? 5 a side football, or something like that, with one having the different colour shirt for goalie?

These are really good ideas. It's seems planned to me or they are gym goes maybe. It's just weird. Either way they cold blooded murderers that should not be out in public.

 

[Astroid-ki]

Following your lead in regards to alcohol....

As @Mel 1303 related, the bill was $40.00- which seems to be about 28.00 US dollars and notes that this number implies one diner.

The men were in good physical condiyion, young and large. Even if all spent on alcohol, $28.00- or even, $40.00 US dollars was not likely to get the assailant(s) drunk. Then factor in that if this apparently Muslim owned restaurant served alcohol, it was probably of the more sedate beer and wine variety and not the say.... Happy Hour!! $5.00 "Jack 'n Coke" type.

The totality of your and @Mel 1303 's observations could support the following:

- 3 co workers, team mates, possibly military are in town for a night on the town. They go to a bar- probably of the $5.00 Happy Hour drinks variety to start the evening off right. They start to get drunk. But.. perhaps this bar does not have food? Or, maybe they do, but only salty snacks?

- One of the crew is hungry and leaves the bar in search of something more to eat. Wanders to the Curry restaurant. Orders food for himself, maybe has two more beers to put himself over the top.

- His friends arrive and encourage him to skip the bill- or he skipped it on his own initiative. A fatal confrontation occurs.....

Regardless of whose idea to skip out it was, it could have been, as you implied, alcohol fueled. If it was alcohol fueled, the trio was probably went some where a little bit more wilder first to "tank up", then one went to the restaurant.

Was this possible initial bar with in walking distance?

But they fled very easily and steadily if they were soo drunk they would have made mistake and stumbled. They were fully aware to be able vanish into thin air. <modsnip: Not LE friendly without known fact to support>. How can they not find better pictures of these men in this day and age? MOO