GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

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StillDiggin

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Police are searching for a couple who have gone missing with their newborn baby after their car broke down on a motorway.
Constance Marten and Mark Gordon left the car near junction four of the M61 near Bolton on Thursday night and walked towards Anchor Lane bridge, Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said.
Officers believe Ms Marten had recently given birth and neither she nor her baby had seen medical professionals.
They are appealing for information.
The bridge the couple walked towards links the Highfield and Little Hulton areas.

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IMPORTANT

Effective with the arrest in this case, sub judice is in effect and will be until a trial has concluded. For anyone not familiar with the judicial principle of sub judice, please review the following.

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re-post
“My number one concern was to keep Victoria”, she said.
“I’m a good mother. I’m an excellent mother, actually. And she deserved my love and attention.”

''The plan was to try and go abroad legally, or find some people who would smuggle us abroad illegally.”
 
re-post
“My number one concern was to keep Victoria”, she said.
“I’m a good mother. I’m an excellent mother, actually. And she deserved my love and attention.”

''The plan was to try and go abroad legally, or find some people who would smuggle us abroad illegally.”
It strikes me that I don't think I have *ever* heard anyone describe themselves as an "excellent" mother" before.

It's such an incredibly arrogant and self aggrandising thing to say IMO.
 
re-post
“My number one concern was to keep Victoria”, she said.
“I’m a good mother. I’m an excellent mother, actually. And she deserved my love and attention.”

''The plan was to try and go abroad legally, or find some people who would smuggle us abroad illegally.”

She really seems to lack self reflection.

She is right about one thing, baby Victoria did deserve her mother’s love and attention. She didn’t deserve to be treated the way she was, regardless of what lead to that.
 
It strikes me that I don't think I have *ever* heard anyone describe themselves as an "excellent" mother" before.

It's such an incredibly arrogant and self aggrandising thing to say IMO.
The comparison would be with other mothers who are being directly accused to their faces of being appallingly bad mothers, in front of a large number of people. I wonder how many mothers who think (as most mothers do) they are good mothers (as most mothers are) would say in those circumstances that they think they are quite good, yes, about as good as most mothers.
 
Listed for tomorrow. Are they starting at 10AM or 2PM?

SITTING AT 10:00 am

Trial (Part Heard)
T20237104GORDON Mark A01MP1072723SUSWMCPS
MARTEN Constance01MP1072723
DTA - SITTING AT 2PM, Order made under Contempt of Court Act 1981
That's a weird one. Maybe sitting at 10am without the Jury to hear legal arguments (it was never clear whether those had been done with last week), and then the jury in for the start of the Judge's summing up at 2pm?

Unless they've taken a leaf from Fiona Beal's book.
 
I listened to a podcast about adoption years ago and remember the birth mum saying "I'd like to think I'm a good mum". She had 10 or 11 children, all removed.
IMO feeling like you aren't a good enough parent and could do better is pretty much the norm for most mothers.

Guilt is baked in from the start in my experience. It's why women beat themselves up about just about everything, from having had a glass of wine before they knew they were pregnant, to breastfeeding and beyond.

Thinking about it, perhaps it's inevitable that those who self declare themselves as being good/excellent parents, are the ones most likely to end up having their children removed - because they lack the humility to learn how to put their children's needs front and centre.
 
Listed for tomorrow. Are they starting at 10AM or 2PM?

SITTING AT 10:00 am

Trial (Part Heard)
T20237104GORDON Mark A01MP1072723SUSWMCPS
MARTEN Constance01MP1072723
DTA - SITTING AT 2PM, Order made under Contempt of Court Act 1981

Encouraging to see there’s a separate , unrelated ,hearing scheduled in for 3pm.

Can we hope that Judge Lucraft expects to have sent the jury out by then
 
re-post
“My number one concern was to keep Victoria”, she said.
“I’m a good mother. I’m an excellent mother, actually. And she deserved my love and attention.”

''The plan was to try and go abroad legally, or find some people who would smuggle us abroad illegally.”
Of course my opinion only - we would not be on WS discussing this trial if the Number One Concern had been Victoria’s health (and not “keep”).
 
The comparison would be with other mothers who are being directly accused to their faces of being appallingly bad mothers, in front of a large number of people. I wonder how many mothers who think (as most mothers do) they are good mothers (as most mothers are) would say in those circumstances that they think they are quite good, yes, about as good as most mothers.
Bad parents don't worry that they are bad mothers. They don't see their actions as neglectful or abusive.

Good parents question themselves constantly. They very often feel guilty about small things like a little too much junk food or screen time that day. They will ensure their child has their basic needs met... sometimes by going without themselves.

We did not see anything that qualified as good parenting in this case.

All Moo
 
It strikes me that I don't think I have *ever* heard anyone describe themselves as an "excellent" mother" before.

It's such an incredibly arrogant and self aggrandising thing to say IMO.
I agree, but it’s honestly quite common for parents with SS involvement, but usually in the sense of social workers asking and a parent (who’s very much struggling) either not having the insight or not wanting the intrusion/being in denial. The sad thing for many of those parents is their own parents’ example was no better and, sometimes, worse. We don’t really know what CM or MG childhoods were like, but the lack of insight throughout has been very apparent. Not to forget MG continual asking repeatedly for food and insinuating mistreatment around his legs throughout interviews, while the Police constantly tried to ask where baby Victoria was. Anyone with insight into their own behaviour (or empathy) would recognise how inappropriate and bizarre that was.

It’s yet another juxtaposition - a mother who recognises herself as excellent, but who blames herself for her child’s accidental death, or so say the defence. It does sound like there were positives, she was thoughtful in activities at contact and put in effort, showing love and care, but she wasn’t consistent and it sounds as though the lack of insight prevented her really taking the feedback offered and working through the issues they had as a family.
 
.....snippe

Thinking about it, perhaps it's inevitable that those who self declare themselves as being good/excellent parents, are the ones most likely to end up having their children removed - because they lack the humility to learn how to put their children's needs front and centre.

IMO feeling like you aren't a good enough parent and could do better is pretty much the norm for most mothers.

Guilt is baked in from the start in my experience. It's why women beat themselves up about just about everything, from having had a glass of wine before they knew they were pregnant, to breastfeeding and beyond.

Thinking about it, perhaps it's inevitable that those who self declare themselves as being good/excellent parents, are the ones most likely to end up having their children removed - because they lack the humility to learn how to put their children's needs front and centre.

BBM
100%. I met someone who called herself a "great mum" and had all 3 children removed. She could not see why they were taken. She minimised the impact that her behaviour was having on her children all the time.
She had all offers of help and didn't take any. Too socially anxious to go to parenting classes, not to go to the night club or pub, etc.
She failed a parenting assessment and the kids remained in kinship care.
She still posts photos of the kids all the time, from when they were babies to when she visits them. She talks about the "unbreakable bond" they have and "how close they are". In fact she posted more about the children since they stopped living with her. She loves the attention she gets from her friends who keep liking and commenting on her posts, validating her and telling her she is a great mum, and in her mind she continues to believe this.
Listening to CM I was constantly reminded of this woman, the inability to answer a straight question; the minimisation; the belief that being biologically related made up for everything and the exaggeration from doing the bare minimum (e.g buying them treat) as the biggest sacrifice they should be praised for.
 

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