Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[impatientredhead]

Perhaps adipocere could have been formed due to the bag being partially buried underwater in a marshy area for a period of time. Remember there was a hurricane and the body was in a low land area.

However, regarding adipocere on the paper towels, if the paper towels were collected from Casey's TRUNK then the adipocere would logically have formed before Caylee was dumped at Suburban.

Adipocere: What you always wanted to know

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere"]Adipocere[/ame], also known as grave wax or Mortuary wax, is the resulting decomposed state of flesh if left in a damp and sealed environment. The process of fatty and soft tissues converting to adipocere is called [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saponification"]saponification[/ame] which is the same process used to make soap.

My notes:

Option one it formed due to condensation (damp) inside the plastic bags (sealed environment). It forms in the first month, faster in children and the obese. It is more commonly found in cool environments. For this to be the reason I would have to seriously reconsider that she didn't dump the body until the day she was at Amscott to dump the car. But that doesn't mesh with the 2.5 days of decomp and I have always thought she dumped the body on the 18th.

Option two: The purge/basketball size stain contained enough fatty acids that it is the source and was what she was attempting to clean.

 

[karen7868]

Please forgive if I'm way off base because I haven't had time to read all the autopsy reports. Mostly have been trying to keep up by reading all of your posts.

That being said, here is my two cents about what may have happened.

I believe Casey killed Caylee very shortly after the argument with Cindy. Probably during the middle of the night of the 15th. She then snuck back in to the A's and placed Caylee's body in the sandbox.

I think she probably wrapped her in the WtP blanket before placing in the sandbox. When she went to remove Caylee's body, she didn't realize that she would start decomposing so quickly. Therefore, she borrowed the shovel to keep from having to handle the body.

She then placed the body in the pool to try to wash off the sand and any evidence and then placed into the trash bags and placed the bags into the laundry bag to put in trunk.

That would mean chlorine would have been exposed in the trunk.

After GA found the car, he attempted to clean it with Acetone. IIRC, Acetone is used in body shops to remove stains and detail autos. I believe GA was known to be a little OCD about cleaning the vehicles.

CA then disposed of the KC's clothes that she was wearing when dumping the body.

Is it possible the combination of the chlorine with the acetone created the chloroform?

If so, this clearly shows that GA and CA were involved in the cover up of this heinous crime against their own flesh and blood.

If the Acetone was used to clean the trunk, I don't believe it would have been KC cleaning it. It would be GA. We all know that KC is too lazy to clean up and probably couldn't tolerate the smell to clean it.

Please be forgiving if I'm way off base. It's jmo and I have not read everything.

 

[autumnlover]

I think this was a cold-blooded, premeditated murder. I believe that chloroform was used to knock Caylee out and the duct tape was applied over her nose and mouth to suffocate her. I believe this for the following reasons:

1. The chloroform searches done on Casey's computer.
2. Casey's failure to report her missing at all. It was Cindy who did, after 31 days.
3. Casey partying during during that period of time.
4. Casey viewing Caylee as an impediment to the life she wanted to lead as a party girl, particularly after she missed the trip to Puerto Rico. In addition, she referred to her as "the little snot-head."
5. Casey's complete lack of emotion.
6. Caylee was thrown out like garbage 1/4 mile from the Anthony home.
7. Cindy's 911 Call.
8. Cadaver dogs hitting on the car and backyard.
9. Smell of decomposition in the car.
10. Casey hindering LE's attempts to find her child.

I also believe, though I did not list it, that Casey's fingerprints are on the duct tape. That has not been revealed yet, if I am right. We only know about the other family members. However, if you notice, I did not list any real forensics or anything that might be confusing to a juror. What I did do, is simply put forth what the average juror is going to hone in on when deciding this case.

For these reasons, IMHO, this monster premeditatedly applied layers of duct tape to her child's mouth and nose and taped her jaw shut. The jury will find her guilty. This is why the SA is asking for the death penalty. Until the autopsy report came out I wasn't so sure she was going to get the DP. If the SA shows pictures of Caylee's skull with the duct tape Casey will be strapped to the table with the needles in her arms faster than the foreperson can say, "Guilty!"

 

[LinasK]

I think this was a cold-blooded, premeditated murder. I believe that chloroform was used to knock Caylee out and the duct tape was applied over her nose and mouth to suffocate her. I believe this for the following reasons:

1. The chloroform searches done on Casey's computer.
2. Casey's failure to report her missing at all. It was Cindy who did, after 31 days.
3. Casey partying during during that period of time.
4. Casey viewing Caylee as an impediment to the life she wanted to lead as a party girl, particularly after she missed the trip to Puerto Rico. In addition, she referred to her as "the little snot-head."
5. Casey's complete lack of emotion.
6. Caylee was thrown out like garbage 1/4 mile from the Anthony home.
7. Cindy's 911 Call.
8. Cadaver dogs hitting on the car and backyard.
9. Smell of decomposition in the car.
10. Casey hindering LE's attempts to find her child.

I also believe, though I did not list it, that Casey's fingerprints are on the duct tape. That has not been revealed yet, if I am right. We only know about the other family members. However, if you notice, I did not list any real forensics or anything that might be confusing to a juror. What I did do, is simply put forth what the average juror is going to hone in on when deciding this case.

For these reasons, IMHO, this monster premeditatedly applied layers of duct tape to her child's mouth and nose and taped her jaw shut. The jury will find her guilty. This is why the SA is asking for the death penalty. Until the autopsy report came out I wasn't so sure she was going to get the DP. If the SA shows pictures of Caylee's skull with the duct tape Casey will be strapped to the table with the needles in her arms faster than the foreperson can say, "Guilty!"

I believe the same things. I think Casey did it late night on the 15th, but I'm not completely sure if she did it in the home or in the trunk... The fight with Cindy gave her the impetus to do something she'd been planning for a long time, plus Tony didn't want a little girl.

 

[robotdog]

i dont think this was the first time KC used tape on the baby, i bet GA has been missing a lot of tape the past several months :furious:

 

[robotdog]

since she stole everything else why not steal rolls of tape from her father..

 

[robotdog]

if her finger prints are not on the ductape... well thats a shame BUT her DNA will do just fine

they will get her,,, she is toast

 

[Shear22]

I believe the same things. I think Casey did it late night on the 15th, but I'm not completely sure if she did it in the home or in the trunk... The fight with Cindy gave her the impetus to do something she'd been planning for a long time, plus Tony didn't want a little girl.

I think she decided to do it on the night of the 15th but didn't carry it out until the 16th after GA had gone to work and she came back to the house. If she had killed her during the night I imagine she would have hightailed it out of there in the morning rather than hang around the house all morning uploading photos and texting with a dead body on her hands and her dad in the house.

 

[LinasK]

I think she decided to do it on the night of the 15th but didn't carry it out until the 16th after GA had gone to work and she came back to the house. If she had killed her during the night I imagine she would have hightailed it out of there in the morning rather than hang around the house all morning uploading photos and texting with a dead body on her hands and her dad in the house.

She might have put her in the trunk before Cindy got up and left for work...

 

[ibyoungr]

Adipocere: What you always wanted to know

Adipocere, also known as grave wax or Mortuary wax, is the resulting decomposed state of flesh if left in a damp and sealed environment. The process of fatty and soft tissues converting to adipocere is called saponification which is the same process used to make soap.

My notes:

Option one it formed due to condensation (damp) inside the plastic bags (sealed environment). It forms in the first month, faster in children and the obese. It is more commonly found in cool environments. For this to be the reason I would have to seriously reconsider that she didn't dump the body until the day she was at Amscott to dump the car. But that doesn't mesh with the 2.5 days of decomp and I have always thought she dumped the body on the 18th.

Option two: The purge/basketball size stain contained enough fatty acids that it is the source and was what she was attempting to clean.

I wonder if she stuck Caylee in the deep freeze(?) isn't there a small one in the A's garage? Need to to look.... This would have slowed down the 2.5 days of decomp to a later date, caused condensation as the body melted...

sorry... just a thought.

 

[Shear22]

She might have put her in the trunk before Cindy got up and left for work...

And risk GA wondering why Caylee is sleeping in until after noon, go in to check on her and not find her? The absence of a live child all morning long is what I find problematic, especially since after the afternoon of the 16th she avoided her parents like the plague.

 

[TakeNote]

Yes - she could have died in any number of ways wearing only her T shirt and pull-ups.

It's the presence of adipocere on the paper towels that raises questions for me. The formation of this seems to require a certain set of conditions, such as burial in cool soil or immersion in water. The articles that I've read suggest that it does not normally appear in warm conditions, and there needs to be a sufficient presence of water plus anaerobic decomposition. If the towels got stained with this substance through transfer between yard and car then I would think the body would need to have already been bagged and in cool conditions for a couple of days for this to have started forming.

There doesn't appear to have been any evidence of burial in the yard and IMO it's unlikely that KC would have left the bagged body in the playhouse or sandbox for a couple of days with the risk of discovery. Also if she had, the bagged body would have got very warm during the day times, and the adipocere would likely not have formed. Either way, she wouldn't have needed paper towels to carry a bagged body so she must have unwrapped it again for some reason. All very puzzling! :waitasec:

oh...how i hate to write this...but here it goes....could KC have put caylee in the sadbox....*sandbox hit by dogs*.....or in the ground....*disturbance in the ground* and then when she took her out...*needed to borrow the shovel*....decomp started ect.....so she hosed her off....*hit in back yard by dogs*...there for putting her wet...into the final bags .....and useing paper towels to move her around?

 

[wonders]

Newbie here. Could you tell me where you are reading the autopsy report?
Also does anyone know if the tape was sent off for DNA testing as KC might have used her teeth to rip it from the roll?
Thank you in advance for your answers.

 

[Ripley007]

I'm confussed. Forgive me if this has already been addressed...we all know Caylee wore white pin-striped shorts to the nursing home to visit Great Grandpa June 15th. I thought after Caylee's body was found, there were remenants of these same white pin-stripped shorts found. The only thing different was the shirt she was captured wearing on video.
Blue vs pink perhaps? And the lettering...aren't quite a few of the letters on her pink shirt missing? Didn't it orginally say something like "Big Trouble comes in Small packages" and the letters found with her skeleton only make out part of this quote?

 

[Spitfire4ever]

And risk GA wondering why Caylee is sleeping in until after noon, go in to check on her and not find her? The absence of a live child all morning long is what I find problematic, especially since after the afternoon of the 16th she avoided her parents like the plague.

She was missing for 31 days so sleeping til noon surely didn't mean much. Just saying????

 

[Ripley007]

She was missing for 31 days so sleeping til noon surely didn't mean much. Just saying????

:clap::clap::clap:

If anyone believes that George A can recall the details of the late morning/early afternoon of June 16, 2008 in JULY, I've got this GREAT risk free offer to tell you about....

 

[Spitfire4ever]

:clap::clap::clap:

If anyone believes that George A can recall the details of the late morning/early afternoon of June 16, 2008 in JULY, I've got this GREAT risk free offer to tell you about....

ITA and Thanks! :blowkiss:

 

[sariebell]

I have followed this case from the get-go, but never fully actualized a scenario. I do have two items at the forefront of my mind:

*My little friend, S, is 2.5 years old. I adore her, but must admit that she is a real handful now. She is really testing boundaries and she pushes every button and every line. It is not fun to go to dinner with her and outings are cut short because of her behavior and need for a nap, etc. I only say this, because I imagine that Caylee had been kind of fun and a novelty up until she hit 2 years old. Then, she wasn't so fun anymore.

*The autopsy reports regarding the duct tape lead me to believe that Caylee might have been talking too much for KC's taste. Talking about stuff that KC didn't want aired. The layers of duct tape just make me think of silencing someone.

So, KC and CA fight, KC takes Caylee and leaves. She's stuck with a pain in the rump toddler who won't keep her mouth shut to CA and is creating havoc in KC's already screwed up world. I don't think Caylee's death was an accident. I don't think it was fully planned, either.

 

[Ripley007]

I have followed this case from the get-go, but never fully actualized a scenario. I do have two items at the forefront of my mind:

*My little friend, S, is 2.5 years old. I adore her, but must admit that she is a real handful now. She is really testing boundaries and she pushes every button and every line. It is not fun to go to dinner with her and outings are cut short because of her behavior and need for a nap, etc. I only say this, because I imagine that Caylee had been kind of fun and a novelty up until she hit 2 years old. Then, she wasn't so fun anymore.

*The autopsy reports regarding the duct tape lead me to believe that Caylee might have been talking too much for KC's taste. Talking about stuff that KC didn't want aired. The layers of duct tape just make me think of silencing someone.

So, KC and CA fight, KC takes Caylee and leaves. She's stuck with a pain in the rump toddler who won't keep her mouth shut to CA and is creating havoc in KC's already screwed up world. I don't think Caylee's death was an accident. I don't think it was fully planned, either.

I think I hear you and understand your POV. However, remember, children are not BORN knowing how to "properly behave". They must be trained and taught. So, don't feel anger towards the child for perceived misbehavoir in public places. It's the parents JOB to teach the children how to behave like a civilized human. The blame/irritation you feel should be projected upon the 2.5 year olds Parents, not the child.
Personally, I had my first child too young. Flash forward...my first had his first, also very young. And, his child is better behaved in public than HE ever was. Cause HE is a very good parent. Better than I ever was. See, it's not that He had a "better son" than I did. He is a better parent to his child than I was for him. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Crabcake23]

I think the duct tape was the murder weapon. KC covered her mouth and nose. KC put her in the sand box until she figured out what to do with Caylee. Got the shovel from the neighbor. Tried burying Caylee in the back yard. Could not accomplish this and put her in the trunk of the car. Drove around with her in the car until she tossed her in the wooded lot.

She placed the sticker on the duct tape after she was dead. KC stuffed her in the bags and never looked at her again.

I wonder if they found sandbox sand in the car's trunk.