WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #9

[impatientredhead]

Interesting Scandi - wow, I sure had that wrong! I thought we ALL had the same death scent, the same decomp gases; and we all had different scents as live humans. Do I have it backwards or are there two distinct, individual scents...live and decomp for each human being. TIA :waitasec: didn't know this! Thanks

To my understanding dogs searching for the living are looking for a specific scent unique to that person. Cadaver dogs are not given a specific human to look for but are trained to find the smell of decomposing human flesh.

Cadaver dogs that would look for a specific person would be a different type of training and skill set, so while possible to find a specific deceased person the dogs we see identified as cadaver dogs the vast vast majority are looking for any deceased human.

Did that make sense? Or was it as circular as it sounded in my head?

 

[scandi]

The live feed indicated that this might be a possibility, whatever that means. If scents are more potent to the dogs in wet or damp weather, then shouldn't they be doing searches at night rather than daylight? Does a dog's nostrils and smell require eyes or light? I'm not sure what LE is thinking when it comes to seeking out scents. Was there no rain in McCleary during the month of July? Where were the dogs then? Why the search during a heat wave? I'm mystified.

Good question Norm, I think it has to be they got a 'hot' tip that made allot of other things they had learned fall into place. Time is of the essence then, and even tho they might have got this tip last week or days ago, they probably put the task force together as soon as they could. They knew a heat wave was coming but it was the last worry they had I think.

I also think the poster is right who said the FBI called in Pierce County's search force for fresh eyes and they have maybe had excellent results in sleuthing out notable points to solve cases. Believe me, I lived there, and the crime there is rampant. Roy is not far from Parkland where I went to college, and I would only go back there now for something very important. xox IMO

 

[breanna]

I have my feet in a cold water bath, a frozen ice pack in my bra, a bottle of water half of which is ice and 2 fans going. It is now down to 97 degrees outside, more like 110 in this apt!

LOL. I know. It's horrible Scandi. My poor little dogs go outside for like 5 minutes and come back in just panting. I'm such a Pansie. I can't handle this kind of heat and don't like it a bit. I want a really cold beer but I'll probably pass out if I have one Sticking to ice water, it's safer!

JenniferO started the frozen ice pack in the bra. Hope she didn't freeze to death

Stay cool friends.

 

[Normcar21]

as far as I know, there aren't any known SO's in the immediate area...

There are 2 known SO's within a stone's shot of McCleary, one to the North on Elma Hicklin Rd., Feeser I believe his name is, and another just a hop skip and jump to the south of highway 8, on heslep lane. I'm sure that LE has investigated both extensively. However, both addresses are somewhat remote from McCleary and Feeser/Feezer has been thoroughly analyzed in a number of forums. The other, younger individual, has not really been investigated from what I can see. He's the one who lives on the south side of highway 8, Heslep lane, which appeared to me at first to be a very "convenient" location. I dismissed it because nobody else seemed to have any concerns about him so LE probably took a good look at him as well.

 

[eyes4crime]

To my understanding dogs searching for the living are looking for a specific scent unique to that person. Cadaver dogs are not given a specific human to look for but are trained to find the smell of decomposing human flesh.

Cadaver dogs that would look for a specific person would be a different type of training and skill set, so while possible to find a specific deceased person the dogs we see identified as cadaver dogs the vast vast majority are looking for any deceased human.

Did that make sense? Or was it as circular as it sounded in my head?

Makes perfect sense impatientredhead! I thought the same thing - that we each have a unique scent when alive, but the death scent is the same for all of us. Decomp gasses are the same in all humans once dead. Maybe I misread what scandi wrote. Yikes!!! Now I'm confused. THANKS :crazy:

 

[eyes4crime]

how do i bring something over from another thread?

I'll be looking to learn what you learn...I just learned how to put a smiley face in my comment...lol

 

[Normcar21]

LOL. I know. It's horrible Scandi. My poor little dogs go outside for like 5 minutes and come back in just panting. I'm such a Pansie. I can't handle this kind of heat and don't like it a bit. I want a really cold beer but I'll probably pass out if I have one Sticking to ice water, it's safer!

JenniferO started the frozen ice pack in the bra. Hope she didn't freeze to death

Stay cool friends.

I agree, blame it all on Jennifer...it was her fabulous comment that got me going too. :crazy::woohoo:

 

[scandi]

To my understanding dogs searching for the living are looking for a specific scent unique to that person. Cadaver dogs are not given a specific human to look for but are trained to find the smell of decomposing human flesh.

Cadaver dogs that would look for a specific person would be a different type of training and skill set, so while possible to find a specific deceased person the dogs we see identified as cadaver dogs the vast vast majority are looking for any deceased human.

Did that make sense? Or was it as circular as it sounded in my head?

Hi Eyes, Every living body has caverdine in it. When death occurs the body breaks down chemically and these chemicals bond with the caverdine to form a death scent.

Every person is different: years lived, chemicals injested, different foods eaten, exposed to different environments, different illnesses that change chemical components of body maybe not processing certain vitamins, etc. That is just a few things, but makes one realize that although it seems we are all very much the same, chemically we are not. What ever our bodies have absorbed in a lifetime makes a huge difference.

Yes Impatient, I think what you say is correct.

Forensics is changing so fast now. With enhanced scenting the dogs are specially trained to locate the person whose death scent has been given to them. These dogs are looking for a person whose body has not been found.

The scent is created in a lab by taking the chemical components from the live scent of that person and joining them chemically to caverdine to create their death scent. The live scent can be from anything, even laundered clothing that holds their scent.

One thing this will do for cases is have a dog track exactly where this dead person has been, carried, set down, and possibly finally laid to rest. The possibilities are amazing which is why they have worked so hard on developing the technology.

 

[TakeNote]

and was there only one known SO linked to a family in that area....in those few blocks?...that was sleuthed here? on websleuths

 

[Normcar21]

To my understanding dogs searching for the living are looking for a specific scent unique to that person. Cadaver dogs are not given a specific human to look for but are trained to find the smell of decomposing human flesh.

Cadaver dogs that would look for a specific person would be a different type of training and skill set, so while possible to find a specific deceased person the dogs we see identified as cadaver dogs the vast vast majority are looking for any deceased human.

Did that make sense? Or was it as circular as it sounded in my head?

And perhaps that's the forte' of the Pierce County dogs, they can determine a number of different scents. Thanks for that, you may be impatient, but you are wise, imho

 

[CajunGirl]

hi everyone missed you guys but I'm back!

Just caught up and it looks as thought they conducted a search today. Also saw the links about the possible sightings. Very interesting! Does anyone know if those sightings were checked out?

Sorry yall are sweating your butts off up there in the NW. I'm used to that kinda heat and 80% + humidity... but I get through it with central air. Just a bit of advice.... if you have the means to do so, buy an inexpensive window unit from walmart, home depot or lowes or something along those lines. Place it in one room where you can shut the door and have it completely cool. At night, do your best to have everyone sleep in that room. If you have the opportunity to buy more than 1 unit, place it within another room in the house that your family can gather in. We get used to this lil setup during hurricane season. I own 7 window units... they stay boxed up until they are needed...also, i own a generator ... I am VERY prepared since Katrina... I swore that I would never live without those things as long as I could help it.

Also... had an ultrasound done today & posted a couple of pics to my album. I'll post the links if yall are interested in seeing my lil cutie pie...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=969&pictureid=8110

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=969&pictureid=8111

 

[eyes4crime]

Hi Eyes, Every living body has caverdine in it. When death occurs the body breaks down chemically and these chemicals bond with the caverdine to form a death scent.

Every person is different: years lived, chemicals injested, different foods eaten, exposed to different environments, different illnesses that change chemical components of body maybe not processing certain vitamins, etc. That is just a few things, but makes one realize that although it seems we are all very much the same, chemically we are not. What ever our bodies have absorbed in a lifetime makes a huge difference.

Yes Impatient, I think what you say is correct.

Forensics is changing so fast now. With enhanced scenting the dogs are specially trained to locate the person whose death scent has been given to them. These dogs are looking for a person whose body has not been found.

The scent is created in a lab by taking the chemical components from the live scent of that person and joining them chemically to caverdine to create their death scent. The live scent can be from anything, even laundered clothing that holds their scent.

One thing this will do for cases is have a dog track exactly where this dead person has been, carried, set down, and possibly finally laid to rest. The possibilities are amazing which is why they have worked so hard on developing the technology.

thanks scandi...what's the technology called? I would love to read up on it. Here all this time, I thought the death scent is the same for all of us. Is the Body Farm working on this? TIA

 

[scandi]

Makes perfect sense impatientredhead! I thought the same thing - that we each have a unique scent when alive, but the death scent is the same for all of us. Decomp gasses are the same in all humans once dead. Maybe I misread what scandi wrote. Yikes!!! Now I'm confused. THANKS :crazy:

Death might smell the same to the average nose. But analyzing the individual components in a death scent is something that a dogs nose can decipher. Their scent power is incredibly higher than that of a human nose.

 

[Normcar21]

Death might smell the same to the average nose. But analyzing the individual components in a death scent is something that a dogs nose can decipher. Their scent power is incredibly higher than that of a human nose.

This is amazing information, no matter how morbid it may be to the general public, this is extremely important stuff, imo, as applied to this specific case. Thanks Scandi and others who have shared info on this. To me, personally, the "scent" is vital. If LB's scent is acknowledged by those dogs in only this or that location, then "this and that location" is a vital clue

 

[scandi]

thanks scandi...what's the technology called? I would love to read up on it. Here all this time, I thought the death scent is the same for all of us. Is the Body Farm working on this? TIA

There is very little written about enhanced scenting. It took quite a bit in Madeleine's case before the media even mentioned it, which they finally did.

There is a man involved with what he calls human recovery sniffer dogs who wrote about the technology. Tonight when I get back from my run for ice cold watermelon lol I will try and find that for you. I will post it on the doggie thread here. xox

 

[Normcar21]

If indeed these dogs can actually smell a person's movements, even a month after, in as perfect circumstances as is possible, then those perfect circumstances need to be worked out, to the best of LE's ability

 

[Normcar21]

I'm sure you are all familiar with crime 360 where evidence can be stored, in this case with LB "nothing" can be stored, so the dogs need to store it, imo

 

[scandi]

This is amazing information, no matter how morbid it may be to the general public, this is extremely important stuff, imo, as applied to this specific case. Thanks Scandi and others who have shared info on this. To me, personally, the "scent" is vital. If LB's scent is acknowledged by those dogs in only this or that location, then "this and that location" is a vital clue

I doubt these cadaver dogs have been trained in enhanced scenting. But what you are speaking of is exactly why this new technology will revolutionize the world of tracking and finding a specific dead person. These cadaver dogs being used sniff for the scent of caverdine. I don't even think they are given a swatch of Lindsey's scent unless they are trained to scent both the living and the dead which is quite unusual. xox

 

[eyes4crime]

There is very little written about enhanced scenting. It took quite a bit in Madeleine's case before the media even mentioned it, which they finally did.

There is a man involved with what he calls human recovery sniffer dogs who wrote about the technology. Tonight when I get back from my run for ice cold watermelon lol I will try and find that for you. I will post it on the doggie thread here. xox

I would greatly appreciate it! Where is the doggie thread? Is the mixture of decomp scent mixed with a particular human scent being used in this country yet? It would make great sense...chemotherapy, radiation, surgery, poisons, etc could each change the death scent, but I didn't know it did. Maybe they will be able to eventually tell what chemical killed a person... TIA

Watermelon is great to prevent dehydration...enjoy! :blowkiss:

 

[Normcar21]

If nothing weird can be determined in the smell of Lindsey's activities, then the Maple street thing needs to be investigated, the second that smell disappeared, to me a clear indication, from what other sleuthers have indicated, she had to be taken into an enclosed vehicle. That would cause, first smell, then no smell.

A wheelbarrow wouldn't provide that

An abduction and dragging would not provide that

a space ship taking LB up to heaven, where she should always be, whether alive or not, would provide it, yes