The Anthony Backyard *REVISITED*

From Casey's history of promising people she would do things and then at the last minute offering up some story/lie as to why she couldn't, I would not be at all surprised if she told Cindy she would meet her at Uni and then at the last minute didn't show and then later gave her mother some hastily thrown together bs about why she wasn't there.

Wouldn't be surprised either if Cindy was very aware that her daughter used those tactics with friends and family but without having seen Caylee with her very own eyes she couldn't know with complete totality that Caylee wasn't okay and off with a nanny somewhere, even if in her head she thought the nanny could have been Amy or Jesse.
 
IIRC, wasn't there some mention somewhere that Casey used the ruse to lure Cindy to Uni so she could go home and get stuff???
 
This is one of the most "frushtrating" parts of this whole saga.

We never know if it happened if an Anthony said it. I am starting to think we should start a thread not on the inconsistencies between what they say and have found to be lies, mistruths, half-truths, whatever - because they are legion - and simply start ones on things the Anthonys have said that we can actually VERIFY or corroborate from credible, outside sources (the more the better). I'm sure it would be a much shorter and easier task somehow.

The reason I tend to think that this story MIGHT be true, despite the fact that it comes out of CA's mouth (who we must never forget set the example, with her husband, on Advanced Spin, for KC early on) - is that I'm thinking July 3 would have been a perfect excuse for CA to have put pressure on KC to see Caylee. It was a holiday weekend, and even if KC had to "work" for some Fourth of July "event", I think CA could have easily said, well, we want to have Caylee for the barbeque dinner and to take her to see the fireworks. I can see CA getting more desperate about providing logical reasons for KC to bring Caylee home to visit, and holidays and children just go together.

KC had obviously caved in and dropped Caylee off for Father's Day (even though there is little evidence she spent much of the previous week at the Anthony home, and even though she never showed herself that a day to visit her grandfather. (I believe that GA worked that day and given his status in the house, it may have been a holiday he did not expect his family to celebrate on his account); she left for AL's house about 10 minutes after CA left for Mt. Dora and didn't get back until nearly dark that evening - whether it was because she did not care or, due to her run-in with SP's bank account, she was simply not welcome. I'm thinking CA was using the next major holiday milestone as an excuse (or "red flag test") to put pressure on KC to come through and deliver Caylee for the holiday because missing an important family date would indicate more than a lack of cooperation of getting to see Caylee on a normal daily basis. Whether or not the scene at Uni happened or did not, we know that not getting to see Caylee at that point made CA anxious and concerned enough to have Lee track her down and to post that dramatic myspace diatribe.
 
IIRC, wasn't there some mention somewhere that Casey used the ruse to lure Cindy to Uni so she could go home and get stuff???
IIRC,this is what the cell phone pings show, Casey was at the home when Cindy was at Universal. Pretty low of her to bait Cindy with a Caylee visit, only to sneak into the house. I guess it also could have gone down differently with Cindy showing up at Universal unannounced (Casey tells her the day prior that Caylee is going to be at Universal with the nanny). Cindy calls Casey and says "I'm here at Universal to pick up Caylee", Casey says "well we are back in Jacksonville", then Casey runs over to the house real quick knowing Cindy won't be back before she leaves.

At any rate things get real heated on the 3rd, the constant phone calls, the trip to Universal, the My Space message, "My Caylee is missing" and the grand finale...Lee chasing Casey down that night in Orlando. They all knew she was not in Jacksonville at this point. What fueled the fire on the 3rd, I wish I knew.
 
IIRC,this is what the cell phone pings show, Casey was at the home when Cindy was at Universal. Pretty low of her to bait Cindy with a Caylee visit, only to sneak into the house. I guess it also could have gone down differently with Cindy showing up at Universal unannounced (Casey tells her the day prior that Caylee is going to be at Universal with the nanny). Cindy calls Casey and says "I'm here at Universal to pick up Caylee", Casey says "well we are back in Jacksonville", then Casey runs over to the house real quick knowing Cindy won't be back before she leaves.

At any rate things get real heated on the 3rd, the constant phone calls, the trip to Universal, the My Space message, "My Caylee is missing" and the grand finale...Lee chasing Casey down that night in Orlando. They all knew she was not in Jacksonville at this point. What fueled the fire on the 3rd, I wish I knew.

But how was it sufficient for Casey to get just Cindy out of the house? George's last day at Job #1 was June 27 or 30, and his first day at Job #2 was July 14, so wouldn't George have been there? Of course, Casey might not have known that George was between jobs, or might have known for some reason that George was away from the house....

BTW, I just looked at the title of this thread and realized we have veered off topic. :)
 
But how was it sufficient for Casey to get just Cindy out of the house? George's last day at Job #1 was June 27 or 30, and his first day at Job #2 was July 14, so wouldn't George have been there? Of course, Casey might not have known that George was between jobs, or might have known for some reason that George was away from the house....

BTW, I just looked at the title of this thread and realized we have veered off topic. :)

LOL - maybe not - maybe KC knew GA would be working in the A backyard all day preparing for the repaving with his headphones on, and wouldn't notice her pulling up in that truck. Or maybe he did and didn't ask any questions. He certainly left out seeing Caylee or "feeding her breakfast" the last day he supposedly saw her.
 
Or maybe he was home, waiting to help KC dig up something from under the play house.
 
This has been bothering me for a long time now, so I feel the need to say something. forgive me if it sounds really stupid.....If I could only see a closer pic of that shed....I have re-watched the Greta interview several times now, and it sure looks to me like this shed has a handle on it that you flip down to open/close the door.....where would you put a LOCK on a handle like this?? I can only imagine a KEY for this kind of handle.....someone please tell me that I am not going crazy here......TIA
 
Bringing this over from the ‘use of the shovel’ thread as it seems more appropriate to the backyard generically vs. specific to the shovel.

The pic of the area between the house and fence leading up to the shed (shown below) was taken by LE Wednesday, 7/16/08 10:13:55PM a few hours after Casey’s arrest @ 4:33PM, and just ~15mins after LE took the pic of the white trash bag recovered from the dumpster @ the impound lot.
(Source of time stamp: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3966491&postcount=55"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's Photobucket - #2[/ame])

FWIW…the K9 search of the Pontiac happened @ 4:42PM on Thursday, 7/17/08 which was followed up by the K9 search of the Anthony backyard @ 7PM on Thursday, 7/17/08.

The question is why would LE take THIS pic 7/16 after the pic of the white trash bag being recovered from the dumpster...and would the reason they took this pic maybe clue us into something. IIRC, Yuri is the one that did the dumpster diving for the white trash bag, so…considering that the time between the pic timestamps allows nothing more than travel from the impound lot to G&C’s house it seems a reasonable assumption that Yuri was the one that snapped this picture.

IMHO the reason LE took this picture is to show that on Thursday, 7/16 @ 10:13PM it was evident that someone had recently moved the hose reel. IMHO, this picture SHOWS that because the pattern of the leaves near the faucet in the pic betray that the hose reel box HAD been sitting next to the faucet and kept those colored leaves from being evenly scattered on the ground in that area - HENCE the alignment of the leaves Anyone that has ever seen leaves blown by the wind in an alley until they start piling up by a barrier can relate to this effect. In addition, the washout of mulch adjacent to this area shows where water from the faucet and/or coiled up hose might typically occur when in its 'normal' place.

Sooooo….WHY would you move the hose reel???? Perhaps because you needed the hose to extend further than it could from its ‘normal’ location! :shocked2: And/or you needed to use the hose from a different faucet...say....the one off the back porch!! That one would enable you to reach an area further away from the house...say...the area of mulch back by the back patio/picnic table, etc. where the K9 alerts were in what might be the low-points where wash water would collect/puddle.

IF a faucet attachment near the back porch was taken by LE (as suggested by another poster)...perhaps it was for prints, from being noticeably wet/muddy from recent use...or wishful thinking...from a decomp alert. FWIW, a "faucet attachment" to me would describe what I call a male quick-connect fitting that is typically screwed onto the threaded part of the faucet when one of these hose reels is used. It has an o-ring that allows a hose (with a matching female fitting) to be quickly & conveniently attached & unattached from the faucet. The attachment typically stays on the faucet where the hose is most often used. IF this type of attachment was found on the back porch faucet instead of on the faucet @ the side of the house where the leaves, betray the hose reel had been sitting...even without prints, mud/moisture, or decomp on it...it would strongly support that the hose reel had been very recently moved & used @ the back porch faucet and the user (perhaps in a rush :rolleyes:) forgot to move it back when they took the hose reel back to the corner of the house. :thumb:

It is interesting to note...that perhaps after Yuri recovered the white trash bag...yet before the K9's alerted on the backyard...that Yuri appears to have made this observation about the hose reel move. :thumb:

Another - entirely unrelated possibility - is that the stolen-gas-can report came to light ~7/16 and Yuri decided to take a picture of the shed from which the cans were reported stolen during a visit. Hmmm....naaaaaah :shakehead. :)

Perhaps an altogether different explanation for the leaf pattern is that something else entirely had been located next to the faucet up against the house and was 'missing'. :waitasec:

Slide1-37.jpg
 
Bringing this over from the ‘use of the shovel’ thread as it seems more appropriate to the backyard generically vs. specific to the shovel.

The pic of the area between the house and fence leading up to the shed (shown below) was taken by LE Wednesday, 7/16/08 10:13:55PM a few hours after Casey’s arrest @ 4:33PM, and just ~15mins after LE took the pic of the white trash bag recovered from the dumpster @ the impound lot.
(Source of time stamp: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's Photobucket - #2)

FWIW…the K9 search of the Pontiac happened @ 4:42PM on Thursday, 7/17/08 which was followed up by the K9 search of the Anthony backyard @ 7PM on Thursday, 7/17/08.

The question is why would LE take THIS pic 7/16 after the pic of the white trash bag being recovered from the dumpster...and would the reason they took this pic maybe clue us into something. IIRC, Yuri is the one that did the dumpster diving for the white trash bag, so…considering that the time between the pic timestamps allows nothing more than travel from the impound lot to G&C’s house it seems a reasonable assumption that Yuri was the one that snapped this picture.

IMHO the reason LE took this picture is to show that on Thursday, 7/16 @ 10:13PM it was evident that someone had recently moved the hose reel. IMHO, this picture SHOWS that because the pattern of the leaves near the faucet in the pic betray that the hose reel box HAD been sitting next to the faucet and kept those colored leaves from being evenly scattered on the ground in that area - HENCE the alignment of the leaves Anyone that has ever seen leaves blown by the wind in an alley until they start piling up by a barrier can relate to this effect. In addition, the washout of mulch adjacent to this area shows where water from the faucet and/or coiled up hose might typically occur when in its 'normal' place.

Sooooo….WHY would you move the hose reel???? Perhaps because you needed the hose to extend further than it could from its ‘normal’ location! :shocked2: And/or you needed to use the hose from a different faucet...say....the one off the back porch!! That one would enable you to reach an area further away from the house...say...the area of mulch back by the back patio/picnic table, etc. where the K9 alerts were in what might be the low-points where wash water would collect/puddle.

IF a faucet attachment near the back porch was taken by LE (as suggested by another poster)...perhaps it was for prints, from being noticeably wet/muddy from recent use...or wishful thinking...from a decomp alert. FWIW, a "faucet attachment" to me would describe what I call a male quick-connect fitting that is typically screwed onto the threaded part of the faucet when one of these hose reels is used. It has an o-ring that allows a hose (with a matching female fitting) to be quickly & conveniently attached & unattached from the faucet. The attachment typically stays on the faucet where the hose is most often used. IF this type of attachment was found on the back porch faucet instead of on the faucet @ the side of the house where the leaves, betray the hose reel had been sitting...even without prints, mud/moisture, or decomp on it...it would strongly support that the hose reel had been very recently moved & used @ the back porch faucet and the user (perhaps in a rush :rolleyes:) forgot to move it back when they took the hose reel back to the corner of the house. :thumb:

It is interesting to note...that perhaps after Yuri recovered the white trash bag...yet before the K9's alerted on the backyard...that Yuri appears to have made this observation about the hose reel move. :thumb:

Another - entirely unrelated possibility - is that the stolen-gas-can report came to light ~7/16 and Yuri decided to take a picture of the shed from which the cans were reported stolen during a visit. Hmmm....naaaaaah :shakehead. :)

Perhaps an altogether different explanation for the leaf pattern is that something else entirely had been located next to the faucet up against the house and was 'missing'. :waitasec:

Slide1-37.jpg



WOW

Impressive

:cow:
 
Bond:

are you thinking that perhaps the body was either in the ground or in the sand box and she used the hose to wash caylee off before transfering her to the trunk?

could the pool have been drained and then filled back up again?

if the hose box had been moved....it would had to of been recent....during those hot months....im sure that the hose would have been used or put back at the side of the house where it usually is stored......

hey...wait....if its true that KC needed the shovel to get the pool ladder out of the pool.....could she have used the hose box to stand up on ...to reach into the pool?

and why was the hose box next to the play house in the area view pic?
 
Bond:

are you thinking that perhaps the body was either in the ground or in the sand box and she used the hose to wash caylee off before transfering her to the trunk?
a) IMHO, IF there was a temporary burial, it would've resulted in more significant decomp traces for the K9's to alert on. IMHO, the sandbox area is just a convenient reference point. In the Greta interview Cindy mentioned the sandbox area and Greta lifted the sandbox lid because she wanted to show that it was a sandbox ('cause apparently Greta hadn't seen one like it before :rolleyes:) and these factors come together to emphasize the sandbox. However, IMHO, there would be signficant decomp traces in the sandbox for the K9's had this been used...and there weren't. In the aerial views CSI actually appears to use the sandbox lid almost like a bucket to hold mulch as they scraped/scooped around the area. It also appears that they moved the sandbox to look under it but otherwise the mulch under it was not distrubed by CSI. FWIW, sand is heavy and Casey couldn't have moved it wholesale. It also seems unlikely Casey could've shoveled all the sand out...moved the sandbox, refilled it and moved it back in the time she had, hence, an inordinate focus on the sandbox itself, IMHO.

b) IMHO, it seems unlikley that Casey would do anything more than the absolute minimum to 'handle' the body. IOW...washing it off...would be doing something "extra".

On the other hand...washing off some object(s) from the Pontiac...:waitasec: seems to fit the evidence we know about better, IMHO.

could the pool have been drained and then filled back up again?
We discussed this in a thread about "draining the pool". Went through this option in considerable detail early in the case. In short, unlikely, IMHO.

if the hose box had been moved....it would had to of been recent....during those hot months....im sure that the hose would have been used or put back at the side of the house where it usually is stored......
Agree. Further, if anyone local knows when those lillies (?) lose their leaves (late June?) that would give some idea of when the hose reel - or something else - had most recently been sitting next to the faucet.

hey...wait....if its true that KC needed the shovel to get the pool ladder out of the pool.....could she have used the hose box to stand up on ...to reach into the pool?
Interesting thought. In the 'use of the shovel' thread I explained how some things come together that IMHO support the shovel-to-get-the-pool-ladder story has Cindy & George as its creators. The bamboo is Casey's creation. Not that Casey couldn't use the hose box to stand on...their is a pool storage box by the pool that would've been more convenient for Casey to use.

and why was the hose box next to the play house in the area view pic?
CSI had moved the playhouse off the pavers and over by the corner of the house during its search. The hose reel box is sitting it the same place in the 7/16 picture as it is in the CSI aerial pic.

Hope that helps.
 
This has been bothering me for a long time now, so I feel the need to say something. forgive me if it sounds really stupid.....If I could only see a closer pic of that shed....I have re-watched the Greta interview several times now, and it sure looks to me like this shed has a handle on it that you flip down to open/close the door.....where would you put a LOCK on a handle like this?? I can only imagine a KEY for this kind of handle.....someone please tell me that I am not going crazy here......TIA

I'm usually proven wrong on my assumptions, but I have assumed when they said they locked the shed they were referring to the lock on the type of door handle you are referring to. Not that they had a padlock on it, but just a key to the handle itself.

Like I said, I'm probably wrong, but that's what I assumed.
 
Thank you Bond!!!

yes that helps :)
 
I'm usually proven wrong on my assumptions, but I have assumed when they said they locked the shed they were referring to the lock on the type of door handle you are referring to. Not that they had a padlock on it, but just a key to the handle itself.

Like I said, I'm probably wrong, but that's what I assumed.

Well, we know that KC must have had house keys - she was in and out of the place all the time. Generally, people leave keys like the one to the shed inside a house (or at least a copy) unless GA had the only one on his set of house/car keys. I just don't understand the "breaking in the shed" situation if it was a door handle lock and there was a key in the house. Didn't AL admit he was there the day KC broke in to the shed to steal the cans? I wish he had described how it was done.

BJB - thanks for adding to my own pet theory that certain messy "items" could have been rinsed off in the backyard with a hose. Propping up the carpeted wheel well cover against the sandbox or laying out slimy boots and pants across the playhouse, or dumping a wetvac's contents by the pool always seemed to me to be a reason that cadaver dogs may have hit on those areas so quickly.

I'm anxiously awaiting the forensic results of the vacuum cleaners, drain traps, etc. for decomp traces.
 
Snipped respectfully, JBJ
Originally posted by Bondjamesbond
"Perhaps an altogether different explanation for the leaf pattern is that something else entirely had been located next to the faucet up against the house and was 'missing'. "


I wonder if Casey had a habit of climbing out the window onto the hose reel or whatever else was there so her parents wouldn't know she left the house. Maybe she got Caylee out of the house that way. Not hard to imagine that when G and C "searched" the backyard they would move it to try to conceal that escape route.
 
In the wonderfully annotated (thank you BJB!) pic in post 469 it looks like there are two hoses that have been disconnected from the faucet. One is leading to the hose reel and the other looks to be tucked up next to the foundation of the house trailing towards the shed. It appears to me that there is a loose hose adaptor (maybe it is connected to the hose going to the reel?) Is that the type quick-connect fitting you were meaning?

The leaves that are so interesting don't look to have come from the lilies. The lilies have strap-like leaves while those next to where the hose reel would have been appear to be more lobed ~ but I can't see any plant material around that area from which they may have fallen.

I am off to look at more pics of the back yard; but am having a very hard time trying to imagine what would have clicked in the photographer's mind to connect the white bag from the dumpster to anything he recalled at this scene. Were there any pieces or globs of red mulch in the bag? Could it be that what we think are leaves are actually some of the red mulching? Sorry, I'm even confusing myself, now.
 
Maybe it's not related to anything. Maybe just documenting anything that had been moved or disturbed in the yard in case it became important later.
 
I see that the red-mulch-in-garbage-bag-and-near-side-yard theory has already been discussed with the picture of garbage bag that precedes this side yard picture here (thank you christee and Muzikman!):

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3961994&postcount=21"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's Photobucket - #2[/ame]


And it seems very logical to me ~ But now I'm even more confused. Why are there two garbage bags?
 
I see that the red-mulch-in-garbage-bag-and-near-side-yard theory has already been discussed with the picture of garbage bag that precedes this side yard picture here (thank you christee and Muzikman!):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's Photobucket - #2


And it seems very logical to me ~ But now I'm even more confused. Why are there two garbage bags?

Trying to keep up here......In this photo (thanks for the link, Expecting!) of the two white trash bags, is the general consenus that the red stuff smeared on the bag is 1) on the outside of the bag? and 2) that it is red mulch?
 

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