MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #13

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His documentation included copies of stories, and online forum comments, from the News Tribune and from the New York Daily News' online version.[/COLOR][/B]


i read that too,but i noticed he didnt specifically say the comments were all from this area. these forums have people commenting from all over the country,and probably the world. i dont see how the judge can / or would, think ALL comments are from around here. JMO i also think this case is going to have prejudices no matter where they take it,if they take it to another county,or if they bring people in from other counties to be jury folks.
sorry,i didnt know how to snip another comment,so i just tried my best.
 
They can try her wherever they want.... she will still be found guilty.

I hope that they will bus a jury into JC for the trial instead of having the trial elsewhere... but I will attend some of the trial no matter where it is held.
 
Jodibug said:
They can try her wherever they want.... she will still be found guilty.

I hope that they will bus a jury into JC for the trial instead of having the trial elsewhere... but I will attend some of the trial no matter where it is held.
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Is there any chance it would be held in Springfield?
 
droptoplesabre said:
His documentation included copies of stories, and online forum commenters, from the News Tribune and from the New York Daily News' online version.[/COLOR][/B]


i read that too,but i noticed he didnt specifically say the comments were all from this area. these forums have people commenting from all over the country,and probably the world. i dont see how the judge can / or would, think ALL comments are from around here. JMO i also think this case is going to have prejudices no matter where they take it,if they take it to another county,or if they bring people in from other counties to be jury folks.
sorry,i didnt know how to snip another comment,so i just tried my best.
Click to expand...

If you click "Quote" in response, you will have the original text that you are responding to in a new box; you can highlight the sentence that you would like to respond to and click on the B for bold, OR you can delete the text surrounding it, but be sure not to delete the html coding in brackets "
nameofthepersonyouarequoting said:
" that appear at the beginning and the /quote in bracktets at the end --

Here is the link to the article to which you were responding Article:
http://newstribune.com/articles/2009...05alyssa09.txt

I think the judge or anyone can rightfully assume that the comments are from around JC if the comments mention the word "local" or disclose in any other way their location

Of course, if there is any doubt, I am sure that most sites will comply with a court order for IP addresses if the court wishes to question it to that extent

From what I have seen here at WS and all over the internet, JC or at least MO has many vocal locals posting all over the internet and often; I don't think the location of the publication matters, even if it is NY -- I don't think the original intent or purpose of the publication matters very much to these posters, and it is very possible that these local posters would not be posting typically in any of these other locations, except for their seemingly strong need to (repeatedly) let the country know that they think another child should "fry" because a child was murdered

That is basically the consensus I have seen in local comments everywhere

(Ironic, as all of the local postings calling for a lynching might possibly take the trial away from JC, to STL or KC )
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W8nC said:
Is there any chance it would be held in Springfield?
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I hope not. I don't want to drive that far.

Personally, I hope it is not a KC or St Louis jury as those areas are far too liberal and would most likely be more lenient in sentencing. Other than St Louis and KC I think anything would be ok.
 
Jodibug said:
I hope not. I don't want to drive that far.

Personally, I hope it is not a KC or St Louis jury as those areas are far too liberal and would most likely be more lenient in sentencing. Other than St Louis and KC I think anything would be ok.
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I'm guessing the venue would be somewhere in the KC or St. Louis area, and, failing that, Springfield or some Small county on the other side of the state.
 
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a small (conservative), neighboring county.

But I will drive to Springfield, St Louis or KC if it is there.

If it is a long distance away, maybe W8nc, CSquare and I can pick a couple of days and carpool. Of course.... I don't know about those two, but if I go to St Louis, KC or Springfield I have to shop while I am there, so we might have to drag CSquare around a mall somewhere...
 
Jodibug said:
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a small (conservative), neighboring county.

But I will drive to Springfield, St Louis or KC if it is there.
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In my opinion, whether the jury is conservative or liberal isn't really something I'd spend too much time worrying about. When picking a jury, the defense and prosecution has to work together to compromise on its make up. Juries end up being pretty balanced in the interest of fairness to both sides.

I also have my doubts this case will go to trial.

ETA: I might make it down to the trial if it's in St. Louis.
 
Jodibug said:
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a small (conservative), neighboring county.

But I will drive to Springfield, St Louis or KC if it is there.

If it is a long distance away, maybe W8nc, CSquare and I can pick a couple of days and carpool. Of course.... I don't know about those two, but if I go to St Louis, KC or Springfield I have to shop while I am there, so we might have to drag CSquare around a mall somewhere...
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LOL, shopping is always an option...as is carpooling.

I have relatives in Springfield we could stay with, if we need to, and a girlfriend in the KC area, but no one in StL.
 
AndresEscobar said:
In my opinion, whether the jury is conservative or liberal isn't really something I'd spend too much time worrying about. When picking a jury, the defense and prosecution has to work together to compromise on its make up. Juries end up being pretty balanced in the interest of fairness to both sides.

I also have my doubts this case will go to trial.

ETA: I might make it down to the trial if it's in St. Louis.
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I have to respectfully disagree. While I am sure that the defense and prosecution try to form a balanced jury.... you just can't get a very conservative jury in some area's (same with liberal juries in other areas). I believe that conservative juries are much more willing to impose a harsher sentence.

I used to have a boss that when the first conceal/carry proposal was shut down (sometime from 1998-2000 since that is when I worked there) asked why we even bother with voting since the majority of the state is conservative, but KC and St Louis nearly always decide the vote.

There are 114 counties in MO, and at least 100 of them will vote conservatively, but the counties in the KC/St Louis area's still decide a lot of the votes.

I also don't think it will go to trial.... but I also don't want them to offer her a plea deal since the only thing they could possibly offer her is that she would walk the streets again someday.
 
W8nC said:
LOL, shopping is always an option...as is carpooling.

I have relatives in Springfield we could stay with, if we need to, and a girlfriend in the KC area, but no one in StL.
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One of my best friends just moved from Springfield to TX.

They do have a great mall in Springfield. :)

Depending on how long they drag this out I may or may not be willing to stay a night away from home though. I have never been away from my almost two year old, and I'm not ready for that yet! Though I am sure it will be many months, so we'll see.

If it were in St Louis though, I'd just drag hubby along and have him take her to the Magic House or something during the daytime.
 
Jodibug said:
I have to respectfully disagree. While I am sure that the defense and prosecution try to form a balanced jury.... you just can't get a very conservative jury in some area's (same with liberal juries in other areas). I believe that conservative juries are much more willing to impose a harsher sentence.

I used to have a boss that when the first conceal/carry proposal was shut down (sometime from 1998-2000 since that is when I worked there) asked why we even bother with voting since the majority of the state is conservative, but KC and St Louis nearly always decide the vote.

There are 114 counties in MO, and at least 100 of them will vote conservatively, but the counties in the KC/St Louis area's still decide a lot of the votes.

I also don't think it will go to trial.... but I also don't want them to offer her a plea deal since the only thing they could possibly offer her is that she would walk the streets again someday.
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I'm just talking from my experience. I don't really know anything about MO. Living in the Chicago area, which is a pretty politically "liberal" area, we impose pretty harsh sentences. I can assure you, we don't play softball on crime here. For example: after ONE DUI in Illinois, you must get a breathalyzer attached to your car and have to blow each time you start your car. (Oh, and you have to rent that breathalyzer at a high price).

Having picked juries before, you very much try to pick based on demographics. Age, race, sex, education are the big ones.

re: plea deal -- Prosecutors have a duty to try to work towards a plea deal. This is for a lot of reasons, but mostly because going to trial costs a lot of money. What's interesting in this case is that since the death penalty is off the table, negotiations for a plea bargain shift. LWOP in Prison is what she's facing, so the starting point for negotiations would have to be something different from that. That wrinkle would be why this case would see trial, if it does.
 
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...6EF445F52F323F888625768700567627?OpenDocument

"JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — An attorney for a Missouri teenager charged with killing a 9-year-old neighbor says the trial should be moved because local residents are biased against her.

Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is to be tried for murder in Cole County for the October killing of Elizabeth Olten.

But Bustamante's attorney says residents are so prejudiced against her that she cannot get a fair trial in Cole County. The change of venue motion cites online public comments made in response to news stories posted by Jefferson City and New York City newspapers.

snipped

So, folks from Jeff City to New York City are biased. Not being glib, where is the attorney purposing they hold Alyssa's trail?
 
gliving said:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...6EF445F52F323F888625768700567627?OpenDocument

"JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — An attorney for a Missouri teenager charged with killing a 9-year-old neighbor says the trial should be moved because local residents are biased against her.

Fifteen-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is to be tried for murder in Cole County for the October killing of Elizabeth Olten.

But Bustamante's attorney says residents are so prejudiced against her that she cannot get a fair trial in Cole County. The change of venue motion cites online public comments made in response to news stories posted by Jefferson City and New York City newspapers.

snipped

So, folks from Jeff City to New York City are biased. Not being glib, where is the attorney purposing they hold Alyssa's trail?
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Of course not accusing you of being glib, but I can answer your question. In any high profile case such as this one it'd be impossible to find an absolutely impartial jury. The purpose of the change of venue is that in this specific venue the jury pool is so impartial that AB could not get a fair trial in the venue. It's a question of degree. So, while some other parts of the state may not be completely impartial, they will be more (edited thanks to w8nC) impartial than the area in which this occurred.

ETA: I'm not imparting an opinion, or arguing either way. I'm just trying to explain the thinking here.
 
When we have a muderer of a young child -- yes, most if not all of us no matter what our political leanings are would want that murderer to have to pay greatly for that horrific crime --

When we have a child murderer, some of us think that is a mitigating factor
When we have a child murderer with a history of mental illness, some of us think that is a mitigating factor
When we have a child murderer with a history of mental illness, and a recorded history of loud and public cries for attention that seem to have been ignored by "adults', some of us feel that is mitigating factor

Mitigation does not by any means mean exoneration

And although I grew up in CA and am a college professor, I play hardball-- as a juror and instructor, just ask some of my plagiarizing ex-students :)
 
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