MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #13

[Elley Mae]

I never did or will agree to "plea deals" it is not fair/right that a murderer can "come clean" and get a lighter sentence. I hope that with the evidence at hand the prosecution will not even think of a plea. I don't want her to ever walk the streets again.

 

[vjlaw]

I don't think any of us know what evidence the jury will actually see.

 

[W8nC]

Of course not accusing you of being glib, but I can answer your question. In any high profile case such as this one it'd be impossible to find an absolutely impartial jury. The purpose of the change of venue is that in this specific venue the jury pool is so impartial that AB could not get a fair trial in the venue. It's a question of degree. So, while some other parts of the state may not be completely impartial, they will be less impartial then the area in which this occurred.

ETA: I'm not imparting an opinion, or arguing either way. I'm just trying to explain the thinking here.

BBM
You mean less PARTIAL, as in less biased, as in by media coverage or local gossip, or local knowledge of the crime, the families involved, and their backgrounds, etc........right?

 

[AndresEscobar]

BBM
You mean less PARTIAL, as in less biased, as in by media coverage or local gossip, or local knowledge of the crime, the families involved, and their backgrounds, etc........right?

Yes, I will edit that. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Prof]

Andres, why do you think that this will not go to trial?
From the statements made by Sheriff White at his October 23rd presser about making sure that they have a prosecutable case, and the statements the prosecutor Richardson has made to the press such as
""Because of the nature of the case, there is not a lot of room to enter into pleas," he [Richardson] said. I would think the last thing LE wants is a plea deal --IDK
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/19/alyssa-bustamante-slaying_n_364544.html

Thanks

 

[AndresEscobar]

Andres, why do you think that this will not go to trial?
From the statements made by Sheriff White at his October 23rd presser about making sure that they have a prosecutable case, and the statements the prosecutor Richardson has made to the press such as
""Because of the nature of the case, there is not a lot of room to enter into pleas," he [Richardson] said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/19/alyssa-bustamante-slaying_n_364544.html

Thanks

I'm not saying this isn't a prosecutable case. I'm saying based on (what seems to be) a large load of evidence, it's in the defendants best interest to try to seek a plea agreement. Because, based on what we "know", there seems to be a lot of evidence against AB. Therefore, the certainty of a plea bargain is more attractive than the highly variable trial and sentencing.

Plea bargaining is in the best interest of the state too. A prosecutor, based on ABA rules, has a duty to attempt to plea bargain. The extent of the plea bargaining could range significantly, obviously.

This is a difficult case to try because it involves a 15 year old. That can be an issue to the jury if the state is seeking LWOP, even though some don't agree on this board it only takes one juror to be disturbed by that. I know the issue of whether she should be tried as an adult is already polarizing. Added to that is the history of mental illness, which some may see as a reason she needs rehabilitation in addition to spending time in prison.

This is a highly emotional case, and it's best for the community as a whole to get closure more quickly.

It will also be a very expensive case to try, as there will be a lot of expert testimony stretched over a long period of time. There will also be appeals, which will be exponentially more expensive than the trial.

In my opinion, the not guilty plea and the motion for change of venue are both posturing by the defense to seek a plea bargain.

ETA: I'm not advocating for a plea bargain, I'm just offering my opinion about the reasons why I think there is a strong possibility it will happen here.

ETAA: Richardson's comments are also posturing, as he's not going to come out in the press and say, "Yeah, we're willing to plead this down."

 

[droptoplesabre]

I don't think any of us know what evidence the jury will actually see.

i agree,,i doubt anybody knows what they'll see,,but IMO, i think there will be some big suprises..not sure why,,but i just think there will.

 

[Elley Mae]

Is it the prosecution or defense that ask for a plea, and does it matter?

 

[AndresEscobar]

Is it the prosecution or defense that ask for a plea, and does it matter?

Doesn't really matter. It's a negotiation.

 

[vjlaw]

Doesn't really matter. It's a negotiation.

When I was on a couple juries, we were not given the potential punishment. So would the jury be told she is not eligible for the death penalty bc of her age making it possible for some jurors to think she was eligible for the death penalty which may effect the vote?

 

[AndresEscobar]

When I was on a couple juries, we were not given the potential punishment. So would the jury be told she is not eligible for the death penalty bc of her age making it possible for some jurors to think she was eligible for the death penalty which may effect the vote?

The juror instructions are agreed to by both parties. The possible sentences she faces should be included. It would be a violation of rules for the Defense to imply she would be eligible for the death penalty. It would also be shockingly negligent for the Prosecuting attorney not to make it clear that she's not.

 

[droptoplesabre]

When I was on a couple juries, we were not given the potential punishment. So would the jury be told she is not eligible for the death penalty bc of her age making it possible for some jurors to think she was eligible for the death penalty which may effect the vote?

that's a realy good question,,i wondered that too,,but i thaught,and it seems to me that that would be descussed by the jurers, while in deliberation, i would think they would all be curious about her sentance,,do'es that make sence?

 

[vjlaw]

that's a realy good question,,i wondered that too,,but i thaught,and it seems to me that that would be descussed by the jurers, while in deliberation, i would think they would all be curious about her sentance,,do'es that make sence?

Having been in a room shut in with 11 other people, deliberation is a strange term to me. lol They may be too busy cussing and discussing what they think is relevant and what isn't to even discuss the the penalty very much. jmo

 

[droptoplesabre]

Having been in a room shut in with 11 other people, deliberation is a strange term to me. lol They may be too busy cussing and discussing what they think is relevant and what isn't to even discuss the the penalty very much. jmo

actually,i didnt know if that was the right word,,i seen it on TV :waitasec:

 

[vjlaw]

actually,i didnt know if that was the right word,,i seen it on TV :waitasec:

Yeh that is what juries are suppose to do. lol

 

[LogicalMinds]

Like it or not, they will probably try to get some sort of plea.

I do hope that the state doesn't budge too much...I think they have a super strong case...
confession....pre-meditated (writings)....physical evidence

and as shown here, MO does not have a guilty but mentally ill plea..so there is no insanity plea here since she knew this was "wrong" (hiding the body shows that)

My guess is that they will cut some sort of plea but it might not be near the "good" deal that supporters of Allyssa hope for...
I think she will get many years, maybe in a mental institution or with a deal to get psychotropic drugs and mental help, with some possible parole in 30? years or so

anything less and I hope the state just goes to trial and slam dunks her for life

interesting that in the case of Michael Hernandez (which I have posted about before and feel is so similar) Florida offered him a deal that would get him out in 25-30 years..he turned it down and went to trial...and got life plus 30 no parole ever

 

[AndresEscobar]

(respectfully snipped)

My guess is that they will cut some sort of plea but it might not be near the "good" deal that supporters of Allyssa hope for...
I think she will get many years, maybe in a mental institution or with a deal to get psychotropic drugs and mental help, with some possible parole in 30? years or so

anything less and I hope the state just goes to trial and slam dunks her for life

interesting that in the case of Michael Hernandez (which I have posted about before and feel is so similar) Florida offered him a deal that would get him out in 25-30 years..he turned it down and went to trial...and got life plus 30 no parole ever

IMO, BBM is pretty dead on for what I imagine the plea deal would be.

 

[W8nC]

IMO, BBM is pretty dead on for what I imagine the plea deal would be.

IMO, as a taxpayer, I would much rather AB agree to a deal something like, "I know I'm one sick puppy and need very, very long term psychiatric help, and may not be "well" enough to mix with regular people for 30 or so years", rather than to have to pay for a huge trial, and appeals, ON TOP OF housing her and treating her mental illness for 30 years to life.

Yes, I am interested in seeing the evidence and details that would be brought out in a trial...anxious, even, to see that....and a plea bargain would nip that in the bud, but in the long term, money talks. Save me my share of the bill, while still making sure that AB is locked up long enough to actually be considered a punishment to fit the crime, and I'm a happy camper. If she can be rehabilitated in the deal, so much the better.

 

[AndresEscobar]

IMO, as a taxpayer, I would much rather AB agree to a deal something like, "I know I'm one sick puppy and need very, very long term psychiatric help, and may not be "well" enough to mix with regular people for 30 or so years", rather than to have to pay for a huge trial, and appeals, ON TOP OF housing her and treating her mental illness for 30 years to life.

Yes, I am interested in seeing the evidence and details that would be brought out in a trial...anxious, even, to see that....and a plea bargain would nip that in the bud, but in the long term, money talks. Save me my share of the bill, while still making sure that AB is locked up long enough to actually be considered a punishment to fit the crime, and I'm a happy camper. If she can be rehabilitated in the deal, so much the better.

BBM this is one of the main reasons for plea bargains: judicial economy.

 

[Prof]

Like it or not, they will probably try to get some sort of plea.

I do hope that the state doesn't budge too much...I think they have a super strong case...
confession....pre-meditated (writings)....physical evidence

and as shown here, MO does not have a guilty but mentally ill plea..so there is no insanity plea here since she knew this was "wrong" (hiding the body shows that)

My guess is that they will cut some sort of plea but it might not be near the "good" deal that supporters of Allyssa hope for...
I think she will get many years, maybe in a mental institution or with a deal to get psychotropic drugs and mental help, with some possible parole in 30? years or so

anything less and I hope the state just goes to trial and slam dunks her for life

interesting that in the case of Michael Hernandez (which I have posted about before and feel is so similar) Florida offered him a deal that would get him out in 25-30 years..he turned it down and went to trial...and got life plus 30 no parole ever

BBM I have not seen any thing posted anywhere on this case that suggests that there are any "supporters" of AB, or that they hope for a "good" deal, (a better deal than 30 years?) -- could you share where this might be coming from? I am very curious, thanks

I am no supporter of AB -- IMO 30 years would be a "good" deal --

I do worry that without hospitalization or serious mental health treatment, that AB might not be ready for release in any period of time

I don't have much faith that any hospitalization will be involved in a sentence or a plea in MO, and I doubt even more so that she will be provided with much if any mental health support other than drugs in prison --all IMO resulting from my reading up on the general state of MO mental health support --

thinking as I type --Of course, even if she did get mental health treatment, will it be effective treatment? Possibly, since now they realize that she is homicidal as well as suicidal