Darlie's injuries

[CW]

(Whereupon the
2 spectators left the
3 courtroom, and the
4 proceedings were
5 resumed as follows
6
7 THE COURT: Okay. Back on the record
8 now. My orders on Ms. Routier remains the same, her
9 telephone privileges are canceled.
10 The defense attorneys may appear in
11 jail anytime they want to. They may call into Ms.
12 Routier. She can receive their calls, but nobody else's.
13 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Well, now, wait a
14 minute, Judge. Just to clarify this. I don't know
15 whether you know what the situation there is or not. But,
16 I was there to see her yesterday, and it was about 2:30,
17 and they said that I could see her at 3:30. So, you know,
18 apparently I can't see her at anytime. I thought that I
19 would be able to see her at any time.
20 THE COURT: Well, let's go off the
21 record. Well, let's go off the record for just a minute.
22 Let's go back on the record.
23 Mr. Mosty, or Mr. Douglass, what are
24 the local rules?
25 MR. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.: Judge, it's
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
277

1 impossible for me to call one of my clients in the jail.
2 Now, maybe you can part the seas. And
3 it's different for me to talk to Ms. Routier, but it
4 doesn't work that way.
5 MR. RICHARD MOSTY: But if we happen to
6 call, and, it may take an hour for them to get her,
7 because it maybe at 9:00 o'clock at night and they don't
8 have anybody else. They've got to get female guards to go
9 get her and come up there. It just doesn't make sense.
10 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Well, Judge, as a
11 matter of fact, when I went to see her last night, I did
12 see her, and they were good about accommodating me, but
13 they asked me in the future to call and make an
14 appointment. I can't always call and make an appointment
15 because I don't always know when it's going to be not
16 convenient, but simply when I'm going to be available to
17 get over there and see her, so --
18 THE COURT: I'll discuss that with
19 Sheriff Kaiser tonight, and I will have an answer for you
20 tomorrow morning.
21 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: We would like to
22 have her be able to call out to her attorneys.
23 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That's part of
24 the communication. Because she might think of something
25 that happened during the trial, that strikes her, that she
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
278

1 needs to convey to me or Mr. Mulder, and the next morning
2 it's gone.
3 THE COURT: I will discuss all of this
4 with Sheriff Kaiser. I'll have an answer for you in the
5 morning.
6 MR. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.: Judge,
7 beside the phone, if I might, I tried to go see her on her
8 birthday, and I called at 5:30, and they said you have to
9 call back at 9:00. So, obviously, there is the time
10 pressures we're working on in a trial, sometimes we need
11 to be able to go right then.
12 THE COURT: I understand.
13 MR. PRESTON DOUGLASS, JR.: And if you
14 might talk to her about that.
15 THE COURT: I will talk to her about
16 that.
17 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Judge, it's
18 imperative that we speak to her tonight. Can she call us
19 tonight?
20 THE COURT: I think that I'll have an
21 answer for you tomorrow morning, Mr. Mulder. If you want
22 to speak to her tonight, I am sure you can go to the jail
23 and talk to her tonight, or remain here if you want to.
24 We'll stay here and let you talk now. Do you want to
25 visit with her right now? We'll get out of your way.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
279

1 Feel free to do so. Thank you.
2 That is all for the record.
3 See everybody in the morning, 9:00
4 o'clock.
5 (Court leaves the courtroom.)
6 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: Well, we would
7 like to discuss this with her, but we don't want to
8 discuss it in front of y'all, with all due respect.
9 DEPUTY SHERIFF J. BIGGERSTAFF: Well,
10 there is the little holding cell, and that's the only room
11 I know of.
12 MR. DOUGLAS MULDER: All right, let's
13 get back on the record. Let me get the Judge.
14 (Court comes back into courtroom.)
15 THE COURT: All right. Back on the
16 record again, in the Darlie Routier matter.
17 These proceedings are being held
18 outside the presence of the jury.
19 And present for the State we have Mr.
20 Toby Shook, for the defense Mr. Richard Mosty and Mr.
21 Preston Douglass.
22 Gentlemen, I have talked with Sheriff
23 Frances Kaiser, the Sheriff of Kerr County. And it's now
24 4:55 p.m. on Monday, January the 7th (sic).
25 Present also, during this conversation,
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
280

1 we also have now Mr. Greg Davis. And present also during
2 this conversation with Sheriff Kaiser was Mr. Kerry Young,
3 a briefing attorney for the district Judges in Dallas
4 County.
5 I have told Sheriff Kaiser, and she
6 agrees, that Ms. Routier may call Doug Mulder at 896-8942,
7 which is a condominium over in the River Hills Area.
8 She may call Mr. Richard Mosty at
9 896-3811, which is his residence. Or 257-6585, which is
10 his office. These are the only numbers she can call.
11 MR. RICHARD C. MOSTY: That's just
12 backwards.
13 THE COURT: Well, okay. Whatever, they
14 have both. The residence number is 257-6585 and the
15 office is 896-3811. Those are the only people she can
16 call.
17 The way that will be handled is as
18 follows: A sheriff's deputy will dial the number, to make
19 sure that Douglas Mulder or Richard Mosty is on the line,
20 and that time the phone will be handed to Ms. Routier.
21 The sheriff deputy will withdraw,
22 keeping her in sight, so they can't hear what she is
23 saying, but nonetheless can see her. And, as soon as she
24 is through with that conversation, the phone will be taken
25 away. She is not to call anyone else.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
281

1 Visiting hours are as follows in the
2 jail: They're 1:00 to 5:00 on Saturday, Sunday, Monday
3 and Tuesday. Sheriff Kaiser has advised the Court that
4 you may visit her at any time. Call first. If you don't
5 get prompt access to her, to call her. Sheriff Kaiser's
6 number is 896-1216.
7 And, I want both of you gentlemen to
8 tell Mr. Mulder that, that we are -- and tomorrow. Okay.
9 Anything else before we get into something else? Is that
10 it?
11 All right. Then I think we've
12 adequately satisfied everybody, as regards to the
13 telephone privileges of Ms. Routier.
14 I want to tell both sides, the first
15 time she talks to anybody else, the telephone privileges
16 will be totally rescinded. If you visit out there, you
17 might tell her that too. Thank you.
18

 

[cami]

She violated the gag order by giving a telephone interview to someone hosting a radio program where her husband Darin was appearing. I can't remember the program or the host's name but I believe this is what the testimony is referring too.


Edited by DP to remove huge quote (transcript).

 

[CW]

Ohh.ok thank you I knew that she had to of done something to deserve that. :boohoo:

 

[Mary456]

"I dont really think the bruises on her arms are all that relevant to the case..."

Hi Lisa...I'm from the Guilty as Charged forum. I've been reading the Scott Peterson threads here at WS almost every day, so I feel as though I know a bunch of you guys already. (Yes, DP, I finally got in. Don't ask, Ha!)

The significance of the bruises on her right arm is when they appeared, which wasn't until June 10th when she was photographed by the police. Every doctor and nurse testified that if she'd received enough blunt trauma to cause those bruises, they would have shown up within 24 to 48 hours. Darlie murdered her sons on June 6th & she was in the hospital for 2 1/2 days. She was examined by Dr. Dillawn right before discharge on June 8th, and there was no bruising, not even the beginning of a bruise, no swelling.

That's why I'm convinced that the blunt trauma was sustained after she left the hospital. Bruises like that don't take four days to show up! Whether she did it to herself to bolster the intruder story or someone else (Darin?) did it, is anyone's guess.

 

[Tricia]

"I dont really think the bruises on her arms are all that relevant to the case..."

Hi Lisa...I'm from the Guilty as Charged forum. I've been reading the Scott Peterson threads here at WS almost every day, so I feel as though I know a bunch of you guys already. (Yes, DP, I finally got in. Don't ask, Ha!)

The significance of the bruises on her right arm is when they appeared, which wasn't until June 10th when she was photographed by the police. Every doctor and nurse testified that if she'd received enough blunt trauma to cause those bruises, they would have shown up within 24 to 48 hours. Darlie murdered her sons on June 6th & she was in the hospital for 2 1/2 days. She was examined by Dr. Dillawn right before discharge on June 8th, and there was no bruising, not even the beginning of a bruise, no swelling.

That's why I'm convinced that the blunt trauma was sustained after she left the hospital. Bruises like that don't take four days to show up! Whether she did it to herself to bolster the intruder story or someone else (Darin?) did it, is anyone's guess.

OMG Mary. I was just going to email you and tell you I couldn't figure it out. Who helped you get in? Did it finally work? I am just thrilled you are here

Sorry. Back to the case.

I thought the bruises showed up the next morning. I have never heard of them showing up after she left the hospital. Interesting

 

[Mary456]

"OMG Mary. I was just going to email you and tell you I couldn't figure it out. Who helped you get in? Did it finally work? I am just thrilled you are here"

I think it was my fault. I had a password, but instead of just logging in, I kept trying to register. Long story...just chalk it up to my computer ignorance. Thanks for all your help.

"I thought the bruises showed up the next morning. I have never heard of them showing up after she left the hospital. Interesting"

Cam's the blood woman and I'm the bruise lady. If an intruder caused Darlie's bruises, it would have occurred around 2 am on June 6th. She was discharged from the hospital at noon on June 8th, which adds up to 58 hours, about 2 1/2 days. There would have been some beginning bruises on her right arm in that period of time; at the very least, some redness/swelling. Supporters are fond of saying that the nurses "lied" or "missed" the bruises. But ya know what? Not a one of them has ever answered when I asked if the doctors also lied and missed the bruises. Dr. Dillawn checked her arm every single day she was in the hospital. No bruises, nada.

I'm still working on the quote thing. As Dr. March would say, "Can ya cut me some slack?" LOL!

 

[All Rise]

I once had an IV. A couple of days later, I was brusied from the elbow joint to the wrist.

I get shots every week. Sometimes I get a bruise where I got a shot.

So it's not hard for me to understand or accept that her arms could have been bruised by the IVs and any shots that she may have got.

 

[All Rise]

The theory that her bruises were caused by something other than medical care isn't supported.

Even Darlie's own statements fail to imply that her arms were hurt during an "attack". In all of her versions of what happened, she never said that anybody was holding, hitting, or otherwise touching her arms.

Let's assume that her arms were injured. How does anyone explain that an assailant hurt her arms and cut her throat without waking her? She said that she was awaken by her son's voice and pressure on her legs. But having her arms pounded and her throat cut didn't wake her. Impossible.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Hi All Rise and welcome to Websleuths. I agree with what you're saying about Darlie's wounds. When she claims that she never said "fighting," but instead she claims she said "frightening." she lost a lot of support. She claims that she was the "target" of the attack and that she was attacked first, some how lost conscienceness, then came to after her boys were attacked, but before the intruder(s) left. And, they didn't just leave through the front door (the easy) way, no, they mazed through the kitchen, laundry room and fully loaded garage to slip through a small cut in the screen.

It didn't make sense the first time she told it (to the cops), nor did it make sense the other at least 15 times she told different versions of it to her friends/family and media, and it sure as hell didn't make sense on the witness stand.

 

[camillllla]

Cam's the blood woman and I'm the bruise lady. If an intruder caused Darlie's bruises, it would have occurred around 2 am on June 6th. She was discharged from the hospital at noon on June 8th, which adds up to 58 hours, about 2 1/2 days. There would have been some beginning bruises on her right arm in that period of time; at the very least, some redness/swelling. Supporters are fond of saying that the nurses "lied" or "missed" the bruises. But ya know what? Not a one of them has ever answered when I asked if the doctors also lied and missed the bruises. Dr. Dillawn checked her arm every single day she was in the hospital. No bruises, nada.

I'm still working on the quote thing. As Dr. March would say, "Can ya cut me some slack?" LOL!

Hi Mary! (me too)

I just wanted to say that I think there is evidence that SOME of the bruises were made after that night (they are very red on the 10th), and that the big black one is much coaused by internal bleeding from the stab eound.
I also would expect to see some SCRAPE MARKS in the hospital photos since they wouldnt need 4 days to appear.
But I have not ruled out that she could have suffered from or self inflicted some blunt trauma on the night of the murders.

The most obvious point is that those very red areas are just too red to be 4 days old. I think she 'buffered up' her bruises to look more injured.


c

 

[Mary456]

"I just wanted to say that I think there is evidence that SOME of the bruises were made after that night (they are very red on the 10th)"

Ok, Cam, you little wench, are you trying to steal my thunder? I love my bruise theory, lol!

The bruises on her right arm aren't red on the 10th, Cam. They're blue/black/purple, which is consistent with blunt trauma inflicted on June 8th or 9th. I'm not basing this on my own experiences with bruises. I'm basing it on the testimony of doctors and nurses who see blunt trauma every day & testified that there would have been some sign of bruising within 24 to 48 hours.

"and that the big black one is much coaused by internal bleeding from the stab eound."

No way, Cam. Those bruises extended from her wrist to her armpit, and were on the inside of her arm. The shallow wound was to the outside of her forearm. Doctors testified that the arm wound had nothing to do with her extensive bruising.

"I also would expect to see some SCRAPE MARKS in the hospital photos since they wouldnt need 4 days to appear."

Sorry, I'm not following you about scrape marks. There weren't any scrape marks in the June 10th photo taken by RPD, and none noted by the nurses or doctors.

Long live the red, black and blue!

 

[cami]

What "I want a separation" argument?! When did this happen? Where is the testimony on this?

Oh, nevermind...the one right before Darin decided to kill his family, but his wife managed to fight him off. lol I love rampant and wild speculation.

LOl, it's right in Darin's affidavit that he signed, under oath. No wild speculation about it, it's fact. Then it proves he lied on the witness stand as did Darlie. He's lied in all his television appearances as well so he's lied to the public as well about their finances and their marriage.

 

[Dani_T]

LOl, it's right in Darin's affidavit that he signed, under oath. No wild speculation about it, it's fact. Then it proves he lied on the witness stand as did Darlie. He's lied in all his television appearances as well so he's lied to the public as well about their finances and their marriage.

And don't forget that it proves Darlie also lied on the stand when recounting the conversation they had that night... just a normal conversation between husband and wife *snort* right.

 

[jayla]

Being a nurse, I have always wondered if she inflicted the bruises to herself AFTER she was released from the hospital. I just can't imagine any health care worker not noticing bruising that traumatic. When you come on duty, you automatically check an IV site. With several shifts, I think it would be next to impossible for all staff to overlook it. If she didn;t inflict them herself, I think Darin did it.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Could you hit an IV site (after being released from the hospital), and cause the IV site to hemorrhage under the skin?

I know I have run into a corner of a chair or something, and the first day it is red, the second day it is swollen, and the third day it starts to purple, but that is usually caused by a deep bruise with an angled object.

 

[CyberLaw]

I recall reading somewhere that the bruises where inflicted after the murders. Doctors indicated that the bruises were 24-48 hours old when she went to the police station. If I recall correctly she went to the police station 3-4 days after the murders.

The bruise pattern indicated that it appeared that the pattern was of a door being repeatly slammed on her arms. The pattern was somewhat uniform.

I had a bruise and my doctor could tell me exactly how old she felt it was.

I fully 100% believe that Darlie murdered those two dear little boys. I never had any doubt.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Welcome to Websleuths CyberLaw. I'm in agreement with the age of the bruises.

 

[Texana]

She got the bruises the same way she got the wounds.

From herself.

 

[JimPence]

Hi all,

I just thought of something the other day, and was wondering if anyone else has suggested this possibility.

One of the Darlie innocent arguments is that there's not enough time for Darlie to have self-inflicted the knife wounds, stabbed the boys, cleaned the kitchen, yada, yada, yada, given that a maximum of 8 minutes could have passed from the boys' injuries to their death. We know that Damon was still alive when the first police officer arrived, so it's a tight window of opportunity.

Anyway, here's my wild and crazy speculation. Has anyone suggested the possibility that Darlie inflicted her own wounds first? With the boys asleep, she would have had all the time she wanted or needed. She would also have had time to clean the blood from the sink. Then, after she had taken care of making herself look like a victim, she turned her attention to the boys.

I'm probably totally out to lunch on this, but the thought just struck me and I wanted to see what y'all thought.

Feel free to shoot me down! (But be nice about it)

Jim

 

[Dani_T]

Hi all,

I just thought of something the other day, and was wondering if anyone else has suggested this possibility.

One of the Darlie innocent arguments is that there's not enough time for Darlie to have self-inflicted the knife wounds, stabbed the boys, cleaned the kitchen, yada, yada, yada, given that a maximum of 8 minutes could have passed from the boys' injuries to their death. We know that Damon was still alive when the first police officer arrived, so it's a tight window of opportunity.

Hi Jim

In terms of the 8 minutes for Damon- that is for the fatal wound. If one believes that Darlie inflicted the fatal wound at the same time as the other wounds on Damon then yes, it narrows the time line down. However, there is a fair amount of evidence to suggest that Damon may have been attacked twice, with the fatal wounds being delivered the second time at or near the location where he was found. That opens up the timeline signficantly.

The other thing to consider is that Devon and Damon may not have necessarily been attacked right after each other. Devon was already dead when Darin found him (and his description of how he looks indicates that perhaps he had been dead for a little while... just speculation). It could be that Devon was attacked and killed any time before Damon (say an hour or so?). It is possible that some/all staging may have been done between attacks on the two boys.

Anyway, here's my wild and crazy speculation. Has anyone suggested the possibility that Darlie inflicted her own wounds first? With the boys asleep, she would have had all the time she wanted or needed. She would also have had time to clean the blood from the sink. Then, after she had taken care of making herself look like a victim, she turned her attention to the boys.

I think the blood patterns would tell us this. Just one example , if she cut herself first before the boys then how did she get the boys blood onto the sock and manage to get it outside without leaving any blood trail?

Also, she was bleeding pretty profusely (although not life threatening). I can't see Darlie doing herself first and bleeding that much that early without freaking out.

I'm probably totally out to lunch on this, but the thought just struck me and I wanted to see what y'all thought.

Worth asking Others might like the idea more At the moment it stands pretty much opposed to my theory that she didn't intend to cut herself until she was accidentally wounded and so had to carry through at the last minute.