Casey Visited by Doctor

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

TY, Firefly...my father was a very special man. He'd get up in the middle of the night to rush down to the hospital to help rape victims cope, helped a lot of druggies get off their DOC, you name the issue, he'd help - and not charge one thin dime. He did it because he loved people and couldn't stand to see them hurting. He was also the best dad in the world! We lost him 7/18/08...

:hug:
I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my step dad, the only dad I knew when I was 21. Many days go where I try to remember what he would say when I'm in need of advice or courage. He knew stuff noone else understood, he gave when others took.

So happy that you had a good dad (many people never get the chance) and I am so sorry about your loss (many people don't know the pain). Your dad sounds so kind. You are so blessed to have known him. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Dunno. I sorta compare the Fusian 'hot body' dancing to those party pictures where ICA is in a skimpy black/white outfit IIRC and is doing all of the up close dancing and grinding. Wasn't that the ultimate goal with La Bella Vita?

Not to mention the detail and effort that went into her bizarre costumes for parties she went to - the gambling boustier (sp) thingy, the flag "dress". She put more effort into that stuff than raising caylee.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I don't think Casey would have done anything she hated.

Liquid courage is something else entirely... I would be willing to bet she was intimidated by the other women she observed and nervous of appearing foolish hence slamming the shots.

Her smile and moves are very stiff and awkward, I wonder if Casey ever really had a good time or is she let the moments pass her by, too busy inside her own head thinking about Casey constantly. That would be one explanation for her obsession with pictures. See, I am smiling, I am happy. My life is so cool.

She made the rounds at plenty of parties and other places where she had to be the center of attention. I'll never believe she hated getting attention.

 

[Itsy]

I don't believe her for a skinny minute either. For what its worth Itsy im so sorry for you losing your dad. Mine suffered early onset alzheimers and was admitted to a nursing home this year, he now has completely regressed and so it feels like I have lost him in all but the physical sense. The loss of a parent is guttering. When I see how Casey treats her parents it makes me so sad to think that someday they will be gone and at the moment she doesn't appear to care about them or that fact one iota.

(hugs) to you...That's what happened to my dad, too. Mom took care of him at home as long as she physically & emotionally could. One of the hardest days of my life was going home to visit them and dad not recognizing me for the first time...I can only tell you that it does help to remember the good times and it does get easier in time. The first night he was in the nursing home, he suffered a massive stroke and lived for only 10 more days. We were all lucky to have him in our lives and I miss him every day.

Thank you all for your special words...

 

[Itsy]

Not to mention the detail and effort that went into her bizarre costumes for parties she went to - the gambling boustier (sp) thingy, the flag "dress". She put more effort into that stuff than raising caylee.

(To get back OT): Ain't that the truth??

 

[cyberborg]

Maybe the good doctor is going to finally find Zanny (ZFG).......

...... as an alter ego within ICA.

ICA didn't do it, Zanny did! ICA wanted to protect the A's from the bad spiteful person .... her alter ego.

 

[watcher9]

I may being terribly naive here - but this doctor has written a couple of books and is fairly well known in his circles. Would he really risk have his reputation cut to ribbons on the stand during what will be a very well publicized trial, by obviously stretching the truth?

I understand much about mental illness is a huge area of "wide open spaces" open to interpretation but really? Taking a chance on repressed memories? It is 2010, not the 80's? Really, Dr. Gold?

My first thought after reading your post was that this doctor is either getting ready to publish a book and wants the publicity (think ALyon) or he thinks this case would supply him with material for a new book.

How can a doctor write about a case without disclosing confidential sessions?

 

[DaughterAlice]

The "liquid" courage was to drown away and repress Caylee rotting somewhere while she was having all this fun. For a fleeting moment.... ' Hmmm, what would my Mom and Dad think, if they found out I was dancing while Caylee was "gone". ' Swig, swig, shimmy, shimmy. ' I need to forget. ' This is how she was repressing Caylee's abuse.

Darned "Thanks" button disappears after the first click . . . . Well, I wish I could click it several times. Thanks for saying what I was trying to work out in my brain but hadn't quite formed the words yet.

What TL & friends mistook for nerves may have been something else entirely.

 

[Nore]

TY, Firefly...my father was a very special man. He'd get up in the middle of the night to rush down to the hospital to help rape victims cope, helped a lot of druggies get off their DOC, you name the issue, he'd help - and not charge one thin dime. He did it because he loved people and couldn't stand to see them hurting. He was also the best dad in the world! We lost him 7/18/08...

---------------
Itsy,I am so sorry your Dad passed. I am happy for your precious memories.They mean so much. ((((hugs)))) Nore

 

[nums24]

(hugs) to you...That's what happened to my dad, too. Mom took care of him at home as long as she physically & emotionally could. One of the hardest days of my life was going home to visit them and dad not recognizing me for the first time...I can only tell you that it does help to remember the good times and it does get easier in time. The first night he was in the nursing home, he suffered a massive stroke and lived for only 10 more days. We were all lucky to have him in our lives and I miss him every day.

Thank you all for your special words...

rayer: :grouphug:

 

[Itsy]

Thanks, Nore - I'm so very lucky to have had him for nearly 50 years. And you're right; there are SO many good memories, each of them precious. He loved his family - he could be tough on us and could give you a look that you knew meant you'd disappointed him (which was much, much worse than a spanking!), but we always knew he loved us with all of his soul...I mostly remember his sheer joy of being in the moment. He loved life and never lost his enthusiasm or empathy for others. OK, that's enough OT - just been missing him a lot lately.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'd like to see his notes..

 

[OneLostGrl]

I may being terribly naive here - but this doctor has written a couple of books and is fairly well known in his circles. Would he really risk have his reputation cut to ribbons on the stand during what will be a very well publicized trial, by obviously stretching the truth?

I understand much about mental illness is a huge area of "wide open spaces" open to interpretation but really? Taking a chance on repressed memories? It is 2010, not the 80's? Really, Dr. Gold?

I suspect this docs visit was nothing more than the typical psych eval and "testing" that often takes place before trial. Just cuz he visited with her doesn't mean he's gonna "take the case".. some defendants go through 2-4 docs until they find the one who says something they like. I'm actually surprised they have waited this long to bring someone in.

 

[affinity]

I had the impression they'd already been exploring this for a while, she'd been seeing some therapist and that therapist had gone to Ohio to interview relatives of GA's, etc, and we saw in the jailhouse letters about her supposedly having "new memories surfacing" about possibly being molested as a child, etc. But is this a new doctor?

I know a lot of us from the beginning of the case wondered if she might have some dissociative disorder, myself included. She also has many visible compulsive/repetitive mannerisms. I'm glad if an expert in those disorders has been called in.

I don't see the sex addiction angle myself, I don't see any evidence she was any more interested in sex than most people her age. I don't think the so-called "partying" at Fusian for example was strictly partying, nor do I see it as sexual or anything, she was dressed more tamely than all the other girls in the club, she did the "hot body" dance for Tony's event (and hated it), she was basically working for him for free. But she's there doing this fake "audition" type smile in the photos at the club, etc. The question is, why was she doing this stuff for him, cleaning for him, bringing food from her parents' refrigerator for him and his friends, hanging out there with them, etc, when they didn't seem to be even nice to her....why was she doing all this stuff for TL rather than looking for Caylee? What was going on and what did she think was going on?

I would be interested in what they find out about possible trauma, hypnotic type behavior, dissociation, compulsive behaviors, mania/delirium/sleepdeprivation etc, any cognition/memory issues, etc, any potential medical causes, toxicology, etc. As her friend Annie said, they all knew Casey didn't always make sense, but Casey would never harm Caylee or just lose her or let her be missing and not report it. So what happened?

Seagull, not only is it completely perplexing that KC would turn into a vicious killer (with no previous violence in her background)--but also that she would not run away when "collected" by her Mother, Cindy. Why didn't she run away? She had plenty of time (31 days) to make a break for it. Instead, like you have pointed out, she cleaned Tony's apartment and worked on becoming his full time girlfriend. A (for lack of a better word) regular person (capable of killing their own daughter) would have been thinking.."oh dear, one day I'll have to produce Caylee, and I can't--I had better run away!" KC didn't face the situation--like she didn't face not graduating, like she didn't face becoming pregnant, like she didn't face not having a job, like she didn't face not going to Valencia, like she didn't face not living on her own (like her more self reliant friends)...she didn't face things. WHY? It is clear that if Caylee drowned ("by mistake") in the pool that KC's traditional way of handling things would be to ignore it and carry on. That is her MO. WHY is it her MO? Answer----quite possibly because of disassociation, a direct result of familial sexual abuse/molestation.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Seagull, not only is it completely perplexing that KC would turn into a vicious killer (with no previous violence in her background)--but also that she would not run away when "collected" by her Mother, Cindy. Why didn't she run away? She had plenty of time (31 days) to make a break for it. Instead, like you have pointed out, she cleaned Tony's apartment and worked on becoming his full time girlfriend. A (for lack of a better word) regular person (capable of killing their own daughter) would have been thinking.."oh dear, one day I'll have to produce Caylee, and I can't--I had better run away!" KC didn't face the situation--like she didn't face not graduating, like she didn't face becoming pregnant, like she didn't face not having a job, like she didn't face not going to Valencia, like she didn't face not living on her own (like her more self reliant friends)...she didn't face things. WHY? It is clear that if Caylee drowned ("by mistake") in the pool that KC's traditional way of handling things would be to ignore it and carry on. That is her MO. WHY is it her MO? Answer----quite possibly because of disassociation, a direct result of familial sexual abuse/molestation.

There is NO evodence to back that up imo. And even if she did "dissociate"...I say so what? Nothing has changed and it doesn't reduce her culpability in this sordid affair. She had her chance to minimize the consequences with an accident story, true or not, but she chose to gamble all or nothing.

I don't really get the whole implication that dissociation is any kind of a factor here. It's not something they could prove and any kind of implication of mental illness is going to be pretty shaky imo.

I mean if people buy into the dissociation stuff, no one should ever be held responsible for anything. We've all had traumas in our lives...I guess we'll see what the defense comes up with.

The Grunds were a dead-end for the defense, implications of ritual abuse/sacrifice notwithstanding, I think Zani's in the clear and Kronk isn't panning out too well though they may revisit him if there's a chance for any blame to stick to him...maybe it's time for them to dust off a DSM and start theorizing about mental illness. The twinkie defense worked, so who knows??

 

[Mrs G Norris]

No way no how on any mental illness defense for Casey, duct tape trumps accident theory, and behavior post crime is of little relevance. If she didn't disassociate then she just looks like she didn't care, if she did disassociate then that doesn't change the fact that her own actions caused the trauma she was reacting to. Decomp in car proves it was Casey as she had possession of car so that trumps SODDI defense too. Negotiate plea, admit guilt, or risk maximum IMO, and it's a very high risk.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Reading the doctor's list of credentials listed above, I'm thinking the defense has engaged him for the sole purpose of trying to show that Casey is indeed "remembering" abuse... :dervish:

Going on poor memory here...
Didn't Baez say since day one that when Casey gets her day in court we will all understand. Something to that effect? :waitasec:

Again, Going on poor memory here: I don't remember where I read/heard Casey mention that she didn't want Caylee to be around that type of environment. I always wondered what type of environment she was talking about. I had assumed that maybe Caylee was being abused or both and she wanted to get Caylee out of that environment to save her. Maybe I am dreaming this?



However, it does not change the fact that Caylee was not reported missing for 31 days and that includes Cindy Anthony not reporting her missing. Cindy was Caylee's main care taker and had said that Casey was not a good mother to Casey and talked to her co-workers about the problems with Casey. I have been thinking about the fight on June 15th, maybe Caylee said something to Cindy on the way home from Mt.Dora about Casey..where they stayed..where Caylee slept...what Casey did with Caylee...where she took her..etc. Then when Casey arrived Cindy and Casey had a major blow out and IMO it was not over money, Cindy covered for Casey many times in her thefts, what made this fight different? Caylee went missing/got murdered.

Maybe Caylee got hurt by accident? Maybe Cindy left her in the pool for a few while she started fighting with Casey and Caylee drowned? Didn't Cindy mention that she and Caylee had been in the pool that evening? Didn't a neighbor hear screaming and fighting? Or was that another night?

Or did Casey just storm out of the house with Caylee after the fight and killed Caylee that night so that she would not talk anymore and tell on her? Could be why she ducted taped her mouth and put the heart sticker on her? Kind of like saying, you will never tell on me again.

Just a theory here...the point is, even if there was abuse in the home that did not give Casey the right to kill Caylee if she is the real killer which IMO she is. Let's just say hypothetically that Casey killed Caylee to spare her from the same abuse she endured or Caylee was enduring at the time. Why did she go out parting and shack up with Tony as if nothing happen? In the pictures of her out on the town I don't see them any different than the pictures of her out on the town before Caylee's death, in other words she did not seem distraught, incoherent, or mentally unstable. Her friends did not notice any difference in her either, some mentioned she started going out more and smoking pot...but remember, they also said that Casey was a follower and always wanted to fit in and if she was around people that smoked/partied all the time, and she didn't have Caylee to worry about anymore so she was more like celebrating her freedom and Caylee's death IMO.



So even if Dr. Gold can prove post traumatic stress/sexual abuse/sex addiction, it still does not change the evidence that Caylee's Murder was premeditated IMO. The searches for chloroform etc...The duct tape, the heart sticker...dumping her on the side of the road/15 houses away...NOT REPORTING HER MISSING FOR 31 DAYS. It all comes back down to the evidence and her state of mind at the time of the murder.



I have heard of cases where women kill to spare their children, but they will say so especially if they claim they are crazy. Casey has stuck to the "Imagin Nanny" the whole time, took LE on a wild goose chase to Saw Grass and Universal Studios. She then tried to throw Jesse under the bus, Kronk and now George, IMO Cindy will be next. But what puzzles me is that even though they tried to throw Jesse, Kronk, and George under the bus the "Imagin Nanny" claim is still in place. :cow:

 

[marspiter]

Just tossing this out here.


Hare PCL-R (Psychopathy Checklist Revised)

A. Selfish, callous and remorseless use of others:
1. Glibness/superficial charm (smooth-talking, engaging and slick)
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth (greatly inflated idea of one's abilities and self-esteem, arrogance and a sense of superiority)
3. Pathological lying
4. Conning/manipulative (uses deceit to cheat others for personal gain)
5. Lack of remorse or guilt (no feelings or concern for losses, pain and suffering of others)
6. Emotional poverty (limited range or depth of feelings)
7. Callous/lack of empathy (a lack of feelings toward others; cold, contemptuous and inconsiderate)
8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

B. Chronically unstable, antisocial and socially deviant lifestyle:
1. Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom (an excessive need for new, exciting stimulation and risk-taking)
2. Parasitic lifestyle (exploitative financial dependence on others)
3. Poor behavioral control (frequent verbal abuse and inappropriate expressions of anger)
4. Promiscuity (numerous brief, superficial sexual affairs)
5. Lack of realistic, long-term goals
6. Impulsivity
7. Irresponsibility (repeated failure to fulfill or honor commitments and obligations)
8. Juvenile delinquency (criminal behavioral problems between the ages of 13-18)
9. Early behavior problems (before age 13)
10. Revocation of conditional release (violating parole or other conditional release)
11. Many short-term marital relationships (lack of commitment to a long-term relationship)
12. Criminal versatility (diversity of criminal offenses, whether or not the individual has been arrested or convicted)

The American Psychiatric Association however would classify it as ASPD based on the DSM. As the DSM does not differentiate sociopaths, psychopathy, and ASPD.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

There is absolutely no chance, NADA, that this was instigated by the State. They cannot contact, interview, question KC. This is a defense strategy, pure and simple. It' ain't gonna work - maybe in the mitigation phase to combat the "guilty" verdict and death sentence. IMO this is following the line of KC being abused by her brother and father (ummm. yeah). Defense is definitely going down that road to explain why she killed her daughter.

ETA: Also explains why JB was so hot to have the visits not released to the public

Now I understand JB's reaction to ICA's "tears" when LA mouthed I love you (my impression was, he thought the same thing I'm about to write,IMO)...if he's going down that road, of accusing LA or GA of molesting ICA, what she did at the 911 hearing, in tears, just floats that out of the water. Why would she have that crying reaction versus an angry one if her brother molested her? More of a fishing expedition on the defense but I'm inclined to believe ICA did have that psychotic break but was due to CA's and their argument that turned physical, which CA adamantly denies...JMHO

She wrote that she has dreams of her father coming into her bedroom but claims LA fondled her, more than once...I didn't think ICA would go down this road but seems she will...more humiliation for her family. Pitiful excuse but one that will make sense, as JB has eluded to more than once. Will this be that AHA moment he talks of?...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[sleutherontheside]

I mentioned this on another thread but will weave it into discussion here. After reading excerpts from the book Courting the Media by Marti Mackenzie..........I am starting to believe that MUCH of the defense energy is being spent "floating" hints of incest and emotional abuse in an effort to get the DP off the table.

Did the defense ever believe that the jail visitor log would be sealed????? Of course not, BUT they wanted to create interest in it. By having a doctor with a specialization in trauma, disassociative disorders, and incest et al visit her....they are laying groundwork for "sympathy and mitigation" before the trial.

Why would they do that NOW??????? Becasue they want the DP off the table BEFORE jury selection. A death qualified jury is a reason for concern as they are perceived as being more likely to find guilt.

Regardless of the legitimacy of the incest and abuse allegations..............the defense NEEDS the DP off the table . If they appear to be laying a strong foundation for "throw everyone under the bus and let's get all the "experts" in here........perhaps they are trying to get the SA to consider if it is "worth it" to push for the DP when they know just how far the defense will take it.

JB has cried and whined about KC's lack of privacy and made a "theatrical production" of attempting to give her more.....WHY THEN did he never fight the release of the jail letters? Ummmmmm perhaps because those letters were the catalyst for renewed speculation and interest in the abuse angle and would stimulate interest in KC's visitor logs.

Mark my words.......there is a method here.