Aphrodite Jones, JonBenet, and Lou Smit?

[roseofsharon]

There haven't been any friends from their past come forward -- friends from school and neighbourhood friends, co-workers from jobs they held in the past, yet PR was quite an extrovert. It's interesting.

 

[cynic]

The circular marks look nasty in the autopsy photos -- what could have caused these marks. They don't appear to be open wounds.
IMO

I believe that was addressed very well by KoldKase a few posts back – post #223 What were those marks on JonBenet's leg?
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6373897&postcount=223"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Aphrodite Jones, JonBenet, and Lou Smit?[/ame]

The brownish component to the marks is more suggestive of a fading bruise rather than a stun gun light burn. The coroner concluded that they were abrasions.

 

[Whaleshark]

Has no one ever thought of the fact that those marks could be old stun gun injuries (if stun gun at all), and not a part of that night's crime injuries? Why couldn't they be in a different stage of healing, almost completely scabbed over, and would not look like fresh burns? I don't mean the larger one on her face, but the two smaller ones on her back, and even the similar looking set on her legs from the other picture often compared to.

I know there's a lot of back and forth on this, and I don't have a decision on it yet one way or the other, but I do wonder if a stun gun was used on her....but maybe it's not as definitive and easy to tell one way or the other, because they are older, healing injuries.
If the injuries are a few days to a couple weeks old, they could just look like abrasions at that point.... Not all her injuries or bruises found may have been fresh from that night...

Stun guns apparently are becoming seemingly more common in discipline & child abuse:

Stun Gun used as discipline:
http://dreamcatchersforabusedchildren.com/2011/02/stungun-used-as-discipline/

Lexington Men Charged with Child Abuse in Stun Gun Incident:
http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-stun-gun-child-abuse-100608,0,888735.story

Woman used stun gun, hammer to discipline children:
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/nov/18/181425/deputies-woman-used-stun-gun-hammer-discipline-chi/news-breaking/

Portsmouth dad gets time for using stun gun on children:
http://hamptonroads.com/2011/03/portsmouth-dad-gets-time-using-stun-gun-children

Florida man arrested for using shocking discipline on son:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/dads-real-stunner

Southwest: Texas: Man Uses Stun Gun To Discipline Child
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/27/us/national-briefing-southwest-texas-man-uses-stun-gun-to-discipline-child.html

Stun Guns Used on School Children:
http://my.firedoglake.com/davidchura/2011/01/21/stun-guns-used-on-school-children/

Stun gun used on boy / Stepfather: Device suitable disciplinary tool
http://www.nospank.net/n-j49.htm

Electroshock discipline on students? School successfully lobbies Congress to keep it legal.
http://www.odinistpressservice.com/2011/03/10/electroshock-discpline-on-students-school-successfully-lobbies-congress-to-keep-it-legal/

Electric Shock used as discipline for Special Needs Students:
http://socyberty.com/education/electric-shock-used-as-discipline-for-special-needs-students/

And this, from a 1992 Study:
Stun Gun Injury: A New Presentation of the Battered Child Syndrome
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/5/898


....just putting that out there

 

[Tadpole12]

ty Whaleshark.

I can't stomach reading but a few links, but very interesting point.

Maybe SD could describe the progression in healing, can't remember if he's detailed this issue before.

 

[cynic]

Has no one ever thought of the fact that those marks could be old stun gun injuries (if stun gun at all), and not a part of that night's crime injuries? Why couldn't they be in a different stage of healing, almost completely scabbed over, and would not look like fresh burns? I don't mean the larger one on her face, but the two smaller ones on her back, and even the similar looking set on her legs from the other picture often compared to.

I know there's a lot of back and forth on this, and I don't have a decision on it yet one way or the other, but I do wonder if a stun gun was used on her....but maybe it's not as definitive and easy to tell one way or the other, because they are older, healing injuries.
If the injuries are a few days to a couple weeks old, they could just look like abrasions at that point.... Not all her injuries or bruises found may have been fresh from that night...

Stun guns apparently are becoming seemingly more common in discipline & child abuse:

The distance between the marks needs to be considered.
Keep in mind that Lou Smit practically devoted the final years of his life to finding a stun gun with a prong span that matched the distance between the marks on JonBenet’s body and was unable to do so.

 

[Toltec]

The distance between the marks needs to be considered.
Keep in mind that Lou Smit practically devoted the final years of his life to finding a stun gun with a prong span that matched the distance between the marks on JonBenet’s body and was unable to do so.

What about the so-called stun gun mark on her face? Why only one prong show up?

 

[Toltec]

PR certainly enjoyed bragging about the R wealth and the good life.

It wouldn't be too hard to imagine someone in their inner circle secretly loathing the R's and wanting to make them experience the worst pain parents would ever have to endure.



IMO

The majority of their friends were well-off. The Whites came from oil, the Fernies and Stines were never spotted at the soup kitchen.

The Ramseys only surrounded themselves with the rich...

 

[roseofsharon]

The majority of their friends were well-off. The Whites came from oil, the Fernies and Stines were never spotted at the soup kitchen.

The Ramseys only surrounded themselves with the rich...

There is much jealousy, backstabbing, resentment and gossip among rich friends believe it or not! IMO, as well as competition!!!

Written in JB encyclopedia SS resented not being in PR's inner circle -- interesting.

 

[DeeDee249]

There is much jealousy, backstabbing, resentment and gossip among rich friends believe it or not! IMO, as well as competition!!!

Written in JB encyclopedia SS resented not being in PR's inner circle -- interesting.

Unfortunately, jealousy, backstabbing, resentment, gossip and competition know no boundaries and infect ALL social and economic levels. They are as common on a poor urban schoolyard as in a corporate boardroom. They are among our many human failings.

SS distanced herself from PR and her inner circle at some point after JB's death. I bet by then SS was pretty glad she wasn't part of that "inner circle" after all.

 

[UKGuy]

Unfortunately, jealousy, backstabbing, resentment, gossip and competition know no boundaries and infect ALL social and economic levels. They are as common on a poor urban schoolyard as in a corporate boardroom. They are among our many human failings.

SS distanced herself from PR and her inner circle at some point after JB's death. I bet by then SS was pretty glad she wasn't part of that "inner circle" after all.

DeeDee249,

SS distanced herself from PR and her inner circle at some point after JB's death.

Which point was this? This person was anonymously cheerleading for Patsy long after JonBenet's death emailing fake information and bogus phone calls to various people in authority?

This was no celebrity crush, this was collusion, bordering upon conspiracy.



.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,

Which point was this? This person was anonymously cheerleading for Patsy long after JonBenet's death emailing fake information and bogus phone calls to various people in authority?

This was no celebrity crush, this was collusion, bordering upon conspiracy.



.

You are correct. But shortly after the R moved back to Atlanta, the S family relocated there, too. SS's husband began to work for JR. At some point, the relationships fell apart, and the Ss moved away and not so much as a PEEP about what happened. Nor has there been much said by the Ss about the murder or the Rs.
Some people feel that SS's son DS, who was a friend of BR, may have been there at the R house that night. There is no proof of this- it is conjecture. But the Ss were conspicuously absent that morning among the R "breakfast club" of friends, clergy and "victims' advocates" called to the house early that morning (in flagrant disregard of the instructions on the RN as well as police protocol concerning preserving a crime scene).

 

[KoldKase]

Encyclopedia of the case states that JR ripped the duct tape from JB's mouth and attempted to untie the ropes!! FW witnessed this!

IMO duct tape applied just in case JB woke up while going down the staircase.

IMO

Except the Swiss knife found to have duct tape glue on it was downstairs in the basement. That would indicate the duct tape was applied after she was carried down to the basement.

 

[UKGuy]

Except the Swiss knife found to have duct tape glue on it was downstairs in the basement. That would indicate the duct tape was applied after she was carried down to the basement.

KoldKase,
Yes, it does appear that way. Also, despite Patsy stating she never visited the basement either the morning of JonBenet's death, or the the night before. The duct tape had fibers from Patsy deposited on the sticky side!

There is one speculative reason for this evidence, that is, the person who applied the duct-tape had handled Patsy's clothing prior to placing it over JonBenet's lips.

.

 

[UKGuy]

You are correct. But shortly after the R moved back to Atlanta, the S family relocated there, too. SS's husband began to work for JR. At some point, the relationships fell apart, and the Ss moved away and not so much as a PEEP about what happened. Nor has there been much said by the Ss about the murder or the Rs.
Some people feel that SS's son DS, who was a friend of BR, may have been there at the R house that night. There is no proof of this- it is conjecture. But the Ss were conspicuously absent that morning among the R "breakfast club" of friends, clergy and "victims' advocates" called to the house early that morning (in flagrant disregard of the instructions on the RN as well as police protocol concerning preserving a crime scene).

DeeDee249,

SS's husband began to work for JR.

Very curious turn of events!

At some point, the relationships fell apart, and the Ss moved away and not so much as a PEEP about what happened.

Has anyone made a timeline of this relationship?

Some people feel that SS's son DS, who was a friend of BR, may have been there at the R house that night.

Yes, fits in nicely with a BDI, but do we have any forensic evidence?

An interesting question, might be, why did JR not send Burke over to the Stines to stay, what made FW's household more appealing?

It would appear that the Stine's have assisted the Ramsey's in defending their claim to innocence.


.

 

[Toltec]

Unfortunately, jealousy, backstabbing, resentment, gossip and competition know no boundaries and infect ALL social and economic levels. They are as common on a poor urban schoolyard as in a corporate boardroom. They are among our many human failings.

SS distanced herself from PR and her inner circle at some point after JB's death. I bet by then SS was pretty glad she wasn't part of that "inner circle" after all.

Are you talking about Susan Stine? She and Roxy Walker were Patsy Ramsey's pit bulls. The Stines housed the Ramseys in 1997 until Burke finished school in June. The Stines even went so far as to quit their jobs and move to Atlanta. Doug Stine was a Vice-President at CU...why give up a great paying job to follow John & Patsy?

You are right in that Susan Stine impersonated Chief Beckner through e-mails which I found very strange.

I know the Whites and Fernies....who were both in the Ramsey residence on that horrible day cut ties with the Ramseys.

I don't ever believe the Ramseys ever considered any of their friends "close". Patsy Ramseys 40th Birthday Party in which NONE of their Atlanta friends showed up. The Ramseys "friends" were dispensable.

 

[BBB167893]

The circular marks look nasty in the autopsy photos -- what could have caused these marks. They don't appear to be open wounds.
IMO

They're not open wounds. They were described as scratches.

 

[BBB167893]

ty Whaleshark.

I can't stomach reading but a few links, but very interesting point.

Maybe SD could describe the progression in healing, can't remember if he's detailed this issue before.

Talk about opening up old wounds, Tadpole!

 

[LaLaw2000]

OMG! I just caught this show last night! I sat here with my mouth hanging open in total disbelief! I have now lost all respect for Aphrodite Jones. This was NOT investigative journalism to get to the truth of the facts of JonBenet's murder. What a spin!

I am angry, very angry. I agree that a campaign for the truth and justice for JonBenet would be a great idea. I started out like many with the horror that someone would come into a home and murder a small child on Christmas night. Then before very long, I just knew in my soul that there were no intruders. JonBenet's murderer was someone she trusted and loved, AND has gotten away with it so far. Why, why, why??

I'd better calm myself down. I just want to know why only one side was presented and it was pure spin.

 

[joeskidbeck]

LaLaw2000, most of us here feel the same way. Several, including me, sent off emails telling Ms. Jones actual facts instead of Ramsey spin. I don't know about the others but I have not heard back from her. That's terrible, if she can dish out the spin on national tv, she should be woman enough to acknowledge her mistakes. She does not get another chance from me as I will never watch her show again.

 

[roseofsharon]

Except the Swiss knife found to have duct tape glue on it was downstairs in the basement. That would indicate the duct tape was applied after she was carried down to the basement.

Not necessarily. Perp enters bedroom, cut duct tape, applies over mouth, slips army knife into pocket. Wouldn't have been the smartest thing to do -- leave behind in JB's bedroom.

IMO