CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[nicgumshoe]

That's true, but a simple killing would leave all open to suspicion. Remember the Tylenol murders?

True! To cast suspicion elsewhere, but also less gruesome.

I would think "making it look like an accident" might be a more common route to go for trying to disguise murder and motive. Why do a brutal murder that's bound to leave some sort of trace evidence? You might plan it expecting you'll leave nothing, but things can easily go wrong in such an attack.

But anything is possible. If LE grilled LV about her new car (as stated somewhere), then they were probably examining such possibilities.

However, I really doubt LV's connection as well, or any kind of conspiracy, unless someone knows something after the fact and is hushing up.

If the Will played a role in the crime, I'd be more inclined to think it was because someone found out he/she was not mentioned in it. Still, I think the chances of that are slim as well.

 

[Canadian4]

However, I really doubt LV's connection as well, or any kind of conspiracy, unless someone knows something after the fact and is hushing up.

If the Will played a role in the crime, I'd be more inclined to think it was because someone found out he/she was not mentioned in it. Still, I think the chances of that are slim as well.

I agree with you. I don't think LV is involved.

Does LV have to declare the inheritance on her taxes? The amount declared could be a way of finding out if LV "shared" the money. I guess that's really none of my business though.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

That's true, but a simple killing would leave all open to suspicion. Remember the Tylenol murders?

I suppose that's true and yes, I do recall the Tylenol murders. (Now, it takes me hours to open a Tylenol bottle due to the protection put in place!!:crazy

I disagree that a 'simple killing' would leave all open to suspicion. LE knows a mob hit when they see one, a gang hit, a domestic violence death,etc. And LE knows a 'young and close' murder when they see one.

Don't get me wrong please - I'm not trying to argue with you here. I just firmly believe that AG (and SL & SV) were victims of young male(s) who are unbalanced and "need" the thrill of the kill.

Also, in my paltry opinion, AG's murder doesn't 'feel' like a female killer was at work here.:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I agree with you. I don't think LV is involved.

Does LV have to declare the inheritance on her taxes? The amount declared could be a way of finding out if LV "shared" the money. I guess that's really none of my business though.

Good questions! I don't think I had to pay inheritance taxes when my mom died. I did have to pay the lawyer's fees, of course.

In my husband's case, his father was much more wealthy than my parents were. So, my husband inherited a lot of money. His parents set it up so the sons didn't have to pay inheritance taxes. Now, he and his brothers are keeping a large sum of money in a trust account in case they get hit with capital gains tax this year. They aren't certain if my father-in-law made provisions to cover that before his passing.

Did that make a modicum of sense??:waitasec:

 

[Woodland]

This has been both a stranger killing by someone middle aged and someone young and close. It's difficult for me to know which members of LE, or which LE forces know best.

Different motives will point to different suspects.

 

[nicgumshoe]

This has been both a stranger killing by someone middle aged and someone young and close. It's difficult for me to know which members of LE, or which LE forces know best.

Different motives will point to different suspects.

Did any LE member or force ever suggest a middle-aged person?

I'm interested, because while young is probably the more common scenario, I'm also thinking middle-aged is quite a possibility.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Another example of young murderers:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/24/arrest-made-in-hamilton-highway-murder

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did any LE member or force ever suggest a middle-aged person?

I'm interested, because while young is probably the more common scenario, I'm also thinking middle-aged is quite a possibility.

Hey nic - if I recall correctly LE (the FBI) said "young and close" [modsnip] I believe that's all we know. (I could very easily be wrong.........:innocent

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This has been both a stranger killing by someone middle aged and someone young and close. It's difficult for me to know which members of LE, or which LE forces know best.

Different motives will point to different suspects.

Would you be kind enough to give a link to this info? :tyou: Maybe you mean DLS? Well, I think he was merely a quick fix for LE who were under pressure to "solve" this crime rapidly.

---------------

ETA: Speaking of DLS reminded me of the barn! I'm wondering if AG used that barn for her horse?:bananalama:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Is this near Orangeville/Mono:

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3381815

 

[dotr]

Is this near Orangeville/Mono:

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3381815

Why yes it is nearby, about 45 min.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?rlz=1T4A...code_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ9w8wAA

 

[libyana]

peeping Tom could be a quaint label for stalker or stalkers. I am hearing rumours about this around Orangeville as well. Paul Bernardo started as a "peeping Tom
I also think the perps could be in 30's 40's range, a bit of time to build up to some real meanness.

 

[Hazel]

I think the only reason SV's car was parked behind Greenhawks is that the perp maybe lived in Orangeville or had his car parked nearby. Tim Hortons , where blood was rumoured to be found in the mens' washroom that night, is almost across the road from Greenhawks. Makes me think he could have washed up before he went home.
I have always thought his starting point and the place he watched her from was Timmies.
There was the wood next to Tims with her complex on the other side.

@ libyana: found 3 TH in Orangville. This one is the closest, and now I see what you mean. There are trees right behind TH, but as you said those wont have any leaves after the fall...though LV's murder took place in August.

• A = SL townhouse
• B = behind Greenhawks, where her car was found
• C = TH
  
  
• link to Bing MAP (to explore area) = http://binged.it/s0vwxq
  
  
• link to Google Street Map = http://g.co/maps/6rdbe

PS: Libyana, if I got the locations right, please feel free to 'quote' this post in SV's thread if you want to share your theory over there as well
** perp might own a pair of binoculars ** :bullseye::bullseye: (couldn't find a binoculars smiley)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

peeping Tom could be a quaint label for stalker or stalkers. I am hearing rumours about this around Orangeville as well. Paul Bernardo started as a "peeping Tom
I also think the perps could be in 30's 40's range, a bit of time to build up to some real meanness.

Hi libyana - I work with a person who grew up near Paul Bernardo and went to high school with him. PB's father was a peeping tom. PB went on to become the 'Scarborough Rapist' then moved on to murder.

PB's manner of "peeping" was by videotaping his (and his wife's) gross acts against his victims.:furious:

 

[libyana]

Thanks for the map Hazel. I am useless at anything sophisticated on the computer.
That is my main Tim's I have been going there for years. That wooded area is very dense in the summer behind SV's complex, parts of are looked after by a landscaping company as well. When the leaves go you can see the complex. Another creepy tidbit, David Snow had his antique store almost opposite Greenhawks years ago.
Yes Bernardo's dad, I remember that.

 

[roseofsharon]

I thought that was just $50,000 worth off assets besides the house, but not including bank accounts.

My father is a former teacher in this region, and has calculated her total in pensions (teachers, old age, etc) would have been $50,000-60,000 / year
based on her years teaching.

Not exactly chicken feed -- retired ten plus years -- did not like to spend too much, i.e. take trips. Treated herself to the nice car(s) and splurged on a convection stove only last year, but only $50,000.00 besides the value of her home.

I still wonder if AG was hiding money in her home, not investing so she would not have to pay tax on the interest earned. I thought I read that AG made frequent visits to the Teacher's Credit Union. Were these withdrawals? Or was AG giving money to someone else to invest for her in their name. Did AG possibly tell the wrong person she kept large sums of money in her home!!

Something just doesn't seem right here.

imo

 

[Woodland]

In my 'follow the money' mode, I went back to see what people who knew AG said to the media in the days following her murder. Sometimes those words can take on a new meaning as time goes by and more information becomes available.

In a Spec article dated 1 January 2011, posted early in thread #1, a member of AG's Wednesday coffee group - EM - said AG e-mailed him to say she would not be at the meeting 29 December, but the date of that e-mail is not stated.

This e-mail has come up before and am now wondering was this AG's last known e-mail or the one she sent to her neighbor on the evening of 27 December. LE may have thrown a curve ball to the public on her last communication.

This e-mail to the coffee group could have been a good thing for the killer in that there was no reason for anyone in the group to check on AG.

We know that before 27 December, AG sent an e-mail to PK stating she was going to the Wednesday coffee group.

Sure wish the estimated time of death was in the public domain.

Even LE would not be able to determine who in fact typed these e-mails, only that they originated from AG's computer.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Not exactly chicken feed -- retired ten plus years -- did not like to spend too much, i.e. take trips. Treated herself to the nice car(s) and splurged on a convection stove only last year, but only $50,000.00 besides the value of her home.

I still wonder if AG was hiding money in her home, not investing so she would not have to pay tax on the interest earned. I thought I read that AG made frequent visits to the Teacher's Credit Union. Were these withdrawals? Or was AG giving money to someone else to invest for her in their name. Did AG possibly tell the wrong person she kept large sums of money in her home!!

Something just doesn't seem right here.

imo

If she was a hoarder, as has been suggested (by "suzie" ?...saw a post on that a few pages ago I think), then maybe she hoarded money at home too.

 

[roseofsharon]

In my 'follow the money' mode, I went back to see what people who knew AG said to the media in the days following her murder. Sometimes those words can take on a new meaning as time goes by and more information becomes available.

In a Spec article dated 1 January 2011, posted early in thread #1, a member of AG's Wednesday coffee group - EM - said AG e-mailed him to say she would not be at the meeting 29 December, but the date of that e-mail is not stated.

This e-mail has come up before and am now wondering was this AG's last known e-mail or the one she sent to her neighbor on the evening of 27 December. LE may have thrown a curve ball to the public on her last communication.

This e-mail to the coffee group could have been a good thing for the killer in that there was no reason for anyone in the group to check on AG.

We know that before 27 December, AG sent an e-mail to PK stating she was going to the Wednesday coffee group.

Sure wish the estimated time of death was in the public domain.

Even LE would not be able to determine who in fact typed these e-mails, only that they originated from AG's computer.

I just read that rigor mortis sets in three hours after death with peak stiffness around 12 hours after death and then the body starts to relax after 72 hours. I don't think this has ever been discussed by LE, however, as far as we know, PK only mentioned that AG's eyes were still open, which apparently can occur once a person goes into shock.

Since, the 911 operator asked PK to check for a pulse and he said he did, it does not sound like rigor had set in when he found AG.

If rigor was evident, it would leave no doubt to the person finding the body that the person was dead, which would suggest she was murdered around 8:00 a.m. that morning. If the body was in a state of livor mortis, that may suggest she did not author the final emails and had been murdered approximately 72 hours before being found.

Please correct me if this seems all wrong.

imo

 

[Woodland]

3 January 2011 seems to be the first time LAV speaks to the media about her friend AG. To paraphrase, LAV says '... private in a very big way', '.. only in her house once', '... AG never mentioned she had another friend in Brantford who lived in the same neighborhood as LAV'.

The secret friend statement always seemed off to me (one of many reasons I wanted to see the Will) - if true, why is that worth mentioning to the media when your private minded friend has just been stabbed and assaulted in a horrific way? I can' find an article or video clip quoting LAV saying - how horrible, how unthinkable or just be lost for words altogether. LAV does say it's unconscionable, however does not put up a reward of any kind for information leading to the arrest of the person(s) responsible.

On 4 January 2011 Detective Hrab is quoted in the Spec 'an executor has been found'. He doesn't say an executor has come forward - does his statement mean LE found the Will and advised LAV for the first time that she is executor and sole beneficiary? Is the secret friend LAV referred to the witnesses to the Will?

In the 3 Jan article, LAV calls AG a recluse in the last few years yet AG did get out and about (she didn't buy the Camaro to only sit in the garage) but also says AG had other friends that LAV knew of.

I don't see the point in mentioning the friends with no mention of how LAV felt about what happened. PK mentioned he would rather remember AG in life than death with not much to say about the awful way she died.

Having to speak to LE and make funeral arrangements for a close 30 year friend under such circumstances would leave me exhausted and unable to speak to the media so soon.