GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #12

[WalterFGeorge]

What I'm trying to figure out is, basically, if the trash collectors had come earlier that day , was the bin -- where it was located when Lauren's remains were discovered -- in the normal/correct spot to be collected/emptied by the workers.

(respectfully snipped)

As a former resident, I can shed some light. The trash bins are stored at the end of each parking lot. One in the front of the building, one between the two buildings and one behind the buildings. From the picture posted above, you can see that the bins were against the fence to the left of the building looking from the road. There are approximately one bin per unit for the front units and maybe 6 bins for the 8 middle units. I am not sure how many bins are in the rear.

That being said, it was not unusual for the bins to be moved beside the doors of the individual units- especially if someone was moving out- which was happening during the time when Lauren's body was found.

 

[Oriah]

(respectfully snipped)

As a former resident, I can shed some light. The trash bins are stored at the end of each parking lot. One in the front of the building, one between the two buildings and one behind the buildings. From the picture posted above, you can see that the bins were against the fence to the left of the building looking from the road. There are approximately one bin per unit for the front units and maybe 6 bins for the 8 middle units. I am not sure how many bins are in the rear.

That being said, it was not unusual for the bins to be moved beside the doors of the individual units- especially if someone was moving out- which was happening during the time when Lauren's body was found.

Hello WalterF and welcome to WS's.

In your experience, were the trash bins used frequently by passersby or transients, or guests to the apartments?

 

[WalterFGeorge]

Hello WalterF and welcome to WS's.

In your experience, were the trash bins used frequently by passersby or transients, or guests to the apartments?

Thanks! I am glad to be here.

To answer your question, I think more was taken out of the trash bins by passersby than was put into them. I never saw anybody other than the tenants using the trash cans for disposal regularly.

 

[bessie]

(respectfully snipped)

As a former resident, I can shed some light. The trash bins are stored at the end of each parking lot. One in the front of the building, one between the two buildings and one behind the buildings. From the picture posted above, you can see that the bins were against the fence to the left of the building looking from the road. There are approximately one bin per unit for the front units and maybe 6 bins for the 8 middle units. I am not sure how many bins are in the rear.

That being said, it was not unusual for the bins to be moved beside the doors of the individual units- especially if someone was moving out- which was happening during the time when Lauren's body was found.

Good morning. From your answer it follows that McD could have rolled the can over to the bottom floor apartment without being conspicuous.

 

[Oriah]

Thanks! I am glad to be here.

To answer your question, I think more was taken out of the trash bins by passersby than was put into them. I never saw anybody other than the tenants using the trash cans for disposal regularly.

Thanks WalterF.
Yep, that sounds about right, especially during moving in and out times- correct? (one mans trash is another mans treasure type of thing?)

Random question- did you pay your own water bill, or was it part of the apartment complex fee (like, a set amount every month?)

TIA, and again, welcome to WS!

 

[bessie]

Oriah, WalterFGeorge is our resident resident, former resident I should say. He described for us the storage closet in the laundry room back in early August before we got you over here to answer qestions about the dogs. I'm glad he/she is still with us.

ETA: Personally, I think McD just walked on over to the cans from the downstairs apartment where the remains had been refrigerated and placed the bag in the can. From the looks of the heap of trash in the pictures -- there was even a mattress lying there -- he probably figured it would blend right in even if the package was sticking out a bit. If the timing had been right for him, and her friends had waited one more day to report Lauren missing, the cans would have been emptied and no one would have been the wiser. The bigger question for me is how he got Lauren's body (torso) down the stairs.

Taking into consideration what WFG said about people coming off the street to rummage through the trash, I wonder if that factored into McD's calculations.

 

[WalterFGeorge]

Thanks WalterF.
Yep, that sounds about right, especially during moving in and out times- correct? (one mans trash is another mans treasure type of thing?)

Random question- did you pay your own water bill, or was it part of the apartment complex fee (like, a set amount every month?)

TIA, and again, welcome to WS!

Yes there was definitely more activity around move in and move out times.

I lived there when the complex was under different ownership, but we did not have to pay for water. I don't believe there was a way to meter the water for each individual apartment so my guess is that water is still paid for by the ownership or included in the price of rent as a set fee- but that is only a guess.

 

[Oriah]

Oriah, WalterFGeorge is our resident resident, former resident I should say. He described for us the storage closet in the laundry room back in early August before we got you over here to answer qestions about the dogs. I'm glad he/she is still with us.

ETA: Personally, I think McD just walked on over to the cans from the downstairs apartment where the remains had been refrigerated and placed the bag in the can. From the looks of the heap of trash in the pictures -- there was even a mattress lying there -- he probably figured it would blend right in even if the package was sticking out a bit. If the timing had been right for him, and her friends had waited one more day to report Lauren missing, the cans would have been emptied and no one would have been the wiser. The bigger question for me is how he got Lauren's body (torso) down the stairs.

Taking into consideration what WFG said about people coming off the street to rummage through the trash, I wonder if that factored into McD's calculations.

Shoot, I'm sorry bessie (and Walter!) I never went back and read through all the threads, just jumped in with the dog questions and went from there. I will go back and read through everything now.

I do know that there was the question of removing Lauren's remains from the apartment/downstairs, but I don't know that I saw it was certain that she was in the building to begin with when murdered?

I will go back and read up now- again, I'm sorry.

 

[Backwoods]

Thanks, WalterFGeorge, for the very helpful "insider" information!

 

[Backwoods]

Shoot, I'm sorry bessie (and Walter!) I never went back and read through all the threads, just jumped in with the dog questions and went from there. I will go back and read through everything now.

I do know that there was the question of removing Lauren's remains from the apartment/downstairs, but I don't know that I saw it was certain that she was in the building to begin with when murdered?

I will go back and read up now- again, I'm sorry.

bbm: Oriah, since there were so many forensics, searches, etc., performed in the three apartments (Lauren's, SM's, and vacant one downstairs beneath Lauren's), I think we have pretty much gone on the assumption that she was killed in the apts. or on the grounds ... but of course we can't be completely sure at this point (from what we know).

 

[MaconMom]

WalterF - I assume the trash cans weren't assigned to individual units, is that correct? You just use whichever bin you want?

 

[Oriah]

bbm: Oriah, since there were so many forensics, searches, etc., performed in the three apartments (Lauren's, SM's, and vacant one downstairs beneath Lauren's), I think we have pretty much gone on the assumption that she was killed in the apts. or on the grounds ... but of course we can't be completely sure at this point (from what we know).

Thanks Backwoods- I read through mostly everything (should have done that to begin with, without a blind eye to the dog questions.)
Warning: graphic
Having a hard time figuring how dismemberment could have occured so cleanly if Lauren was not in a frozen state to begin with.

 

[MaconMom]

The bigger question for me is how he got Lauren's body (torso) down the stairs.

Sorry, I don't mean to be gross or disrespectful but here are my thoughts on this. According to this site: How much does an average adult torso weigh? - Straight Dope Message Board

The trunk of the body accounts for approximately 41.6% of the total body weight. I don't know Lauren's weight but I'll guess she was about 150 lbs given her height and that she was athletic. That puts the torso at about 62 lbs (maybe less considering exsanguination). SMD was 6', 150 lbs at the time he was arrested. I don't know if he could have easily moved a 62 lb torso down a flight of stairs. (Also I'm not a good judge of weight so I'm not even sure if 150 is a good guess for Lauren's weight)..

I know there has been no indication that the torso was not intact, but I wonder if it's possible that it was moved in pieces (sorry). Although at his arraignment, I think an investigator mentioned finding the torso wrapped in 5 plastic bags and he might have worded that differently if the torso wasn't intact.

 

[WalterFGeorge]

WalterF - I assume the trash cans weren't assigned to individual units, is that correct? You just use whichever bin you want?

That is correct. The trash bins were usually full about two days before trash pick up too. You could always count on a few bags on the ground around the bins when the truck showed up.

 

[Backwoods]

Thanks Backwoods- I read through mostly everything (should have done that to begin with, without a blind eye to the dog questions.)
Warning: graphic
Having a hard time figuring how dismemberment could have occured so cleanly if Lauren was not in a frozen state to begin with.

Whew, now that's a thought that never occurred to me...!??

You know, they used so much luminol in the three apartments that they had to borrow more -- but there was always discussion on here about whether that meant (1) they were finding lots of blood or (2) they were searching and searching for any blood. (I guess it could also be something in between those, as well.) What would be your take on that?
(Because, of course, we still don't know.)

I am always fascinated when you or sarx are here talking about the dogs, so I don't mind it when you get a little tunnel vision (though you really didn't).

 

[Backwoods]

I know there has been no indication that the torso was not intact, but I wonder if it's possible that it was moved in pieces (sorry). Although at his arraignment, I think an investigator mentioned finding te torso wrapped in 5 plastic bags and he might have worded that differently if the torso wasn't intact.

respectfully snipped and bbm:

MaconMom, that is something ELSE I had not considered!

I had thought that maybe the plan was to reduce the torso further and that that's why a saw or other implement used might still be around -- but it just hadn't occurred to me that it might have already taken place. I just took it that the five bags were used, one inside another, as an attempt at odor control. But your thinking makes sense, as a possibility at least.

You know, early on we had SO many rumors floating around about the condition of the torso (and I know we can't go into them) -- I just about gave up trying to figure out which combination, if any, of them might be true. But what you suggest never came to mind...

ETA: I'm sorry, too, to be graphic, but it is hard not to be when discussing aspects of this crime.

Rest in peace, Lauren.

 

[bessie]

Shoot, I'm sorry bessie (and Walter!) I never went back and read through all the threads, just jumped in with the dog questions and went from there. I will go back and read through everything now.

I do know that there was the question of removing Lauren's remains from the apartment/downstairs, but I don't know that I saw it was certain that she was in the building to begin with when murdered?

I will go back and read up now- again, I'm sorry.

You don't have a thing to be sorry about, Oriah. We're fortunate that you joined us. You've been a great help! I'm glad to share any details you might've missed early on. If you do want to go back and review, the media thread might be easier than reading through all of old threads.
GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 27 June 2011 *Media Links* - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
:blowkiss:

We don't know for certain if she was killed inside the apartment building. There were scratches on her bathtub that had to be made with a very sharp object. So it would seem, though we can't be 100% certain, that the dismemberment took place there.

 

[bessie]

Sorry, I don't mean to be gross or disrespectful but here are my thoughts on this. According to this site: How much does an average adult torso weigh? - Straight Dope Message Board

The trunk of the body accounts for approximately 41.6% of the total body weight. I don't know Lauren's weight but I'll guess she was about 150 lbs given her height and that she was athletic. That puts the torso at about 62 lbs (maybe less considering exsanguination). SMD was 6', 150 lbs at the time he was arrested. I don't know if he could have easily moved a 62 lb torso down a flight of stairs. (Also I'm not a good judge of weight so I'm not even sure if 150 is a good guess for Lauren's weight)..

I know there has been no indication that the torso was not intact, but I wonder if it's possible that it was moved in pieces (sorry). Although at his arraignment, I think an investigator mentioned finding the torso wrapped in 5 plastic bags and he might have worded that differently if the torso wasn't intact.

Thanks for looking up the information. I'd say that's a reasonable calculation on the weight. I have to admit that I hadn't considered the torso was in parts, but it would make sense. Besides the weight, I had been thinking about size, mainly height, compared to the size of the trash bins. An intact torso would've practically filled a bin. If the bins were nearly full already, well, you can see what I'm thinking. In parts, it would've been easier to mix separate packages in with what was already in the bin.

I've been doing a lot of work on the serial killer forum lately, and what I've been reading reminded me that dismemberment is not that uncommon, and it's often done in a bathtub.

 

[Backwoods]

Thanks for looking up the information. I'd say that's a reasonable calculation on the weight. I have to admit that I hadn't considered the torso was in parts, but it would make sense. Besides the weight, I had been thinking about size, mainly height, compared to the size of the trash bins. An intact torso would've practically filled a bin. If the bins were nearly full already, well, you can see what I'm thinking. In parts, it would've been easier to mix separate packages in with what was already in the bin.

I've been doing a lot of work on the serial killer forum lately, and what I've been reading reminded me that dismemberment is not that uncommon, and it's often done in a bathtub.

bbm: Yeah, and the bulkiness -- not just as compared to the bins, but that weight and height together might make an awkward bundle in case you happened to be spotted lugging it to the bin.

I think, weight-wise, a man SM's size might have managed it OK, even going down stairs. (I'm female, a little over 5' 2" and weigh 110-115, and I can carry a 50-lb. or more sack of dog food a reasonable distance pretty easily once I get it hoisted up and get a grip on it.) But not looking conspicuous doing it is another matter.

ETA: bessie, I haven't really checked out the new serial killer forum yet to see what that's all about. (well, obviously about serial killers...but I mean, from what angle, etc.) Will have to get over there soon.

 

[Backwoods]

Another question...

From a story in Macon's The Telegraph fairly early in the case (July 16):

QUOTE:

... Earlier this week, police confirmed that they had information early in the investigation about a master key discovered in McDaniel’s apartment. ...

from the story at: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/16/1633117/no-lab-results-yet-in-giddings.html

To me, the statement above is worded sort of funny -- do any of you see it as meaning that LE had a tip about the key before they found it?

Some of the commenters on the story page seemed to think that way ... I'm not sure I do ... but it does seem the statement could imply that ...? (Could also just be an awkward sentence.)

Just following down that road a little, though, who would be likely to know if SM had a master key? Might he have "demonstrated" with it, in the same way his former undergraduate roommate TM says he demonstrated to him an ability to open a locked door with a knife blade?

ETA: Also noticed, in the same story, this statement:

QUOTE:

... Police have gathered blood, fiber and fingerprint samples, among other evidence, that the FBI is checking. ...

That would seem to indicate that they did find at least some blood (harking back to some questions raised a few posts back...)