GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #12

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Hi bessie!

Lauren's case is just plaguing me...my heart breaks for her friends and family. This is so terrible. :(

I don't know that I buy McD's 'disposal in the trash 'theory/method of all of her remains...

Do you think it's possible that the remains that have not been found are the ones that were most significant to McD?

I don't know. I just know I feel that it is important.

Oiy. My heart breaks for Lauren's family. :(
 
<snipped for focus>

OT tomkat, in case you haven't seen them: Jorelys Rivera, the child victim in the case you mentioned, has threads on Websleuths, the latest being at:

Found Deceased GA - Jorely Rivera, 7, Canton 2 Dec 2011 #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

It is a horrible crime -- and you are right, there are some "echoes" of things so familiar to all of us who have followed Lauren's threads -- not just keys, but also a Georgia apartment complex, body disposal in the trash, a vacant apartment, a brutal, brutal assault and murder.

And this victim is a child. So sad.

I did notice that last evening. Just seems worth mentioning here, this kind of thing seems to be the new fad, dumping bodies in the trash. And echoes INDEED! Horrible!
 
rrbm
Hi, Oriah. I've been trying to get back over to this thread for days now. Every time I started to post I was interrupted, and now I can't remember everything I wanted to write :waitasec:. I'll just say that I agree with you and Backwoods that we're looking at a combination of characteristics, and that's more often the rule than the exception.

Regarding the bolded statement, I waver on this one because of McD's various statements about the most foolproof way to dispose of a body is to simply toss it in the trash. (Not his exact words, but pretty close.) Based on that, I sometimes think leaving the torso in the trash can was a means of disposal. If that's true, he came very close to succeeding. Another hour or so, and the trash would've been picked up, and we'd still be wondering if LG was dead or alive. But it was also pretty sloppy, imo, and gives me pause to wonder if he wasn't in a panic after LE arrived to take the missing persons report. Or was it just part of his plan to put the remains in the trash the night or morning before "garbage day". Either way, it was a manner of disposal.
On the other hand, he was efficient in concealing the other body parts, so why leave the torso behind? Why not dispose of it with the rest of the body? So called "torso murders" are relatively common, where the torso is meant to shock and garner attention. Yet, I can't say that was his intent because given another hour or so, and the trash would have been picked up, and no one would've been the wiser. Seems to me if you want to make a statement, you leave the body where it will be seen. I was just looking at a case the other night of a torso left in a rest stop just west of St. Louis. The perp could've disposed of the body in any wooded area along the highway. But he chose at a site, albeit in the bushes, where sooner or later it was bound to be discovered. That wasn't the case with McD. So I go back to the sloppy/panicked disposal theory. And I'm reminded of the possibility that he held onto the torso until fear of discovery forced his hand.

Now to the rumors Backwoods and Tomkat have mentioned, I don't specifically recall one about a tip from the sanitation supervisor. What I do remember is a post from a member whose relative lived in the back building or around the block. This poster told us neighbors were talking about dogs -- and I think he/she said HRD dogs -- hitting on trash cans along the street, and even chasing behind the garbage truck. I remember thinking at the time that it made sense and fit with my impression of McD. Yet again, in another hour or so, give or take, the trash would've been hauled away. I think he could get away with taking a late night stroll and dropping smallish packages into trash cans. But that trash went to the city dump, if I'm not mistaken, and it was searched the same day. If the rumor was true, the evidence would've turned up.

The next most likely place is the river, imo. Nearby, convenient and efficient. If I had to choose, the river would be my guess. I still have some suspicions about the grandfather's property, but I can't see him driving that far with a body in his car.

What I bolded..............why it seems organized to me and especially with no other damming traces of a crime on scene thus far, that we know of. Whether dropped 2 days prior to pickup or the evening before, he'd already mentioned the "trash" as a location to dump so it seems just human error, getting sloppy and confident. But I dont' know the mindset and types of murderers as you all speak of, only traces of such that I've picked up on, on sleuths.

I think the river is most likely but wherever, if at all, he dropped parts along macon neighborhoods, I still wonder where every landlot or block is disposed of at the landfill. If only one area was searched and each landlot or block or several has a section at the landfill for disposal, they could have missed it, since the whole place would have to be searched. which probably won't happen. Not sure I'm making sense here lol
 
Oriah, the apartments were furnished. Lauren was planning to move the next week. I think it was mentioned that she'd started packing, but she hadn't moved anything out of the apartment yet. Her friends mentioned that everything was in place. Keys and purse were on the sofa. I don't know what furniture McD had in his apartment, but we saw bags and bags of evidence carried out by the investigators, and pictures of his family moving the rest of his things out later.

Regarding the bolded comment, do you mean because a carpet sample from a low traffic area would be purer, with few particles of foreign matter, so easier to match? Or that a high traffic area might contain traces of matter that could be matched to matter in carpet samples from locations outside the apartment? Even besides blood, if a substance found in McD's carpet was also found in Lauren's bedroom carpet, it would provide a clue that he had been in her bedroom. It wouldn't show up in samples from under the bed, for instance, but perhaps in a path from the door to the bed. I can see where samples from different areas would be important for comparison purposes.

IN regards to carpet sample taken by LE or FBI, I wondered WHY THAT SMALL PIECE was taken only. As backwoods mentioned......I also recall a poto of a small 6" square or so, bare spot, where carpet had been removed from the apts, I think Laurens s.
Must have been something on that piece, maybe blood seen with luminol so took it as evidence or looking furhter, for maybe McD fibers/hairs???
 
IN regards to carpet sample taken by LE or FBI, I wondered WHY THAT SMALL PIECE was taken only. As backwoods mentioned......I also recall a poto of a small 6" square or so, bare spot, where carpet had been removed from the apts, I think Laurens s.
Must have been something on that piece, maybe blood seen with luminol so took it as evidence or looking furhter, for maybe McD fibers/hairs???

I'm not sure...but if we are talking about the same fabric sample- it seems to me that it was likely for fiber analysis, since it appears the carpet backing and substrate was not cut through?

I think if an HRD dog had alerted- or a chemical tool such as luminol had brought attention to a specific area- the entire piece of carpet would have been removed- including the carpet backing. :waitasec:
 
<snipped for focus>

OT tomkat, in case you haven't seen them: Jorelys Rivera, the child victim in the case you mentioned, has threads on Websleuths, the latest being at:

Found Deceased GA - Jorely Rivera, 7, Canton 2 Dec 2011 #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

It is a horrible crime -- and you are right, there are some "echoes" of things so familiar to all of us who have followed Lauren's threads -- not just keys, but also a Georgia apartment complex, body disposal in the trash, a vacant apartment, a brutal, brutal assault and murder.

And this victim is a child. So sad.

I have been following this tragic story also. I am struck by the quick turnover of autopsy and DNA results that have been instrumental in the investigation. The autopsy was conducted and findings released the same day as the body was found. DNA evidence was processed the following day. Reports indicate that all tests were conducted by the GBI. I am wondering why the difference in timing between this case and the Giddings case. I am sure there are good reasons - I'm just curious about the stark contrast. Could it be because:

-FBI involvement slows the process down to months, rather than hours. If so, why the FBI involvement in one case but not the other?
-Possibly, results in the Giddings case were turned around quickly, we just weren't told about them.
-One case involves a minor, the other does not.
-In the Giddings case a POI (who local authorities felt was a strong suspect) was already in custody, albeit on a different charge. In the Rivera case, no suspect was in custody and evidence was needed quickly to find him.

Any ideas anyone?

Autopsy:
http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/canton-girl-died-of-1252353.html

Reference to DNA timing:
http://www.wsbtv.com/ap/ap/crime/authorities-autopsy-shows-missing-georgia-girl-was/nFt5r/
 
http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/155872/175/DA-Seeks-Death-Penalty-for-Stephen-McDaniel

And another article on the death penalty notice. Can't say that I'm surprised. Wonder if this will change their strategy? Admission of guilt to escape being put to death? Not likely, but depending on the amount of evidence they have, it's got to be a consideration.

I also wonder if this is a way to get him to reveal the location of the rest of the remains. Its probably not their intention but I wonder if SMD would bargain for life in prison if he admits to the murder and leads LE to the remains.
 
Hello All,
First time poster long time reader here. At times I understand if SM (assuming he did this) needed to get rid of LG's hands as they often hold DNA and considering that he supposedly had scratches on his torso I completely understand the need to dispose of those pieces in a much more seemingly guarded way. Btw has it been verified that scratches were present on SM? I am a local and admit this case has rocked my world; I went to the commitment hearing for the murder charge. The amount of evil involved in a crime like this is indescribable; it is something I will never fully understand how a perpetrator is able to follow through with a crime such as this with such little respect of another person's life, family, and loved ones. That may just be it, pure selfishness, a lack of reality, of compassion, plan and simply put pure evil. I think of Lauren on a daily basis.

I spend a lot of time walking my dogs in wooded areas, the river (via kayak), ect. I am constantly searching ... What many people who are not local or who are not very familiar with the Ocmulgee River may not know is that in the downtown area the river is very shallow especially during th summer months. . There is a lot of boat (kayak) dragging involved on the river. Granted there are some channels where the river is chest deep, there are few places in that direct vicinity of the downtown Rose Hill cemetery area of the river that have depth. Point is that the shallow certainly out weighs the deep in that vicinity of the river where his &#8220;comfort zone" would have been.
That being said the river does take lives. There are drownings because of undertoes and getting caught in debris as result of people being more confident while in it because of it being a shallow river. All I know is my heart goes out to her family (butterbean included), and the loss of such a seemingly beautiful soul.
 
Hello All,
First time poster long time reader here. At times I understand if SM (assuming he did this) needed to get rid of LG's hands as they often hold DNA and considering that he supposedly had scratches on his torso I completely understand the need to dispose of those pieces in a much more seemingly guarded way. Btw has it been verified that scratches were present on SM? I am a local and admit this case has rocked my world; I went to the commitment hearing for the murder charge. The amount of evil involved in a crime like this is indescribable; it is something I will never fully understand how a perpetrator is able to follow through with a crime such as this with such little respect of another person's life, family, and loved ones. That may just be it, pure selfishness, a lack of reality, of compassion, plan and simply put pure evil. I think of Lauren on a daily basis.

I spend a lot of time walking my dogs in wooded areas, the river (via kayak), ect. I am constantly searching ... What many people who are not local or who are not very familiar with the Ocmulgee River may not know is that in the downtown area the river is very shallow especially during th summer months. . There is a lot of boat (kayak) dragging involved on the river. Granted there are some channels where the river is chest deep, there are few places in that direct vicinity of the downtown Rose Hill cemetery area of the river that have depth. Point is that the shallow certainly out weighs the deep in that vicinity of the river where his “comfort zone" would have been.
That being said the river does take lives. There are drownings because of undertoes and getting caught in debris as result of people being more confident while in it because of it being a shallow river. All I know is my heart goes out to her family (butterbean included), and the loss of such a seemingly beautiful soul.


WELCOME, Focus!!
 
Reason why I wonder is because there is little way to get around an HRD dog alerting to clothing and footwear that has come into contact with human remains. Even wearing decontamination gear, you often end up having to throw away clothing and footwear after working-for example- disaster sites, so that your poor dog isn't alerting to your shoes or gloves or whatever on every new case. :(
Washing will help- but the nature of this crime would mean a LOT of washing.
I wonder if a dog hit on a laundry machine in the building?

respectfully snipped and bbm:

I checked, Oriah, and Det. Patterson did testify at the commitment hearing that the HRD dogs hit "in the laundry room" -- as far as I know, he didn't specify exactly where or on what.
 
Welcome Focus!

It was confirmed that SMD had scratches on his torso when he was arrested on the burglary charges: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/05/1655484/warrant-mcdaniel-claimed-he-could.html

FWIW, he had also posted online that he "accidentally" scratched himself trying to swat at a spider right around the time of the murder. Some of us thought that might be an attempt at a cover up. Personally I've never accidentally scratched myself when swatting at a bug.
 
Welcome Focus!

It was confirmed that SMD had scratches on his torso when he was arrested on the burglary charges: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/05/1655484/warrant-mcdaniel-claimed-he-could.html

FWIW, he had also posted online that he "accidentally" scratched himself trying to swat at a spider right around the time of the murder. Some of us thought that might be an attempt at a cover up. Personally I've never accidentally scratched myself when swatting at a bug.


From your link, MaconMom, at http://www.macon.com/2011/08/05/1655...-he-could.html

QUOTE:

The Telegraph has also learned that authorities found what resembled fingernail scratches on McDaniel, two sources familiar with the murder investigation say. Police found the marks on McDaniel&#8217;s torso when he was booked into the Bibb County jail on burglary charges.

Does anyone recall if there was ever confirmation beyond this "sources familiar with the murder investigation"? (I do remember that versions of this were rumored about from very early on.)
 

My interpretation of this is that they do have the evidence to back it up. Death penalty convictions are automatically appealed to the GA supreme court. Not that the GA supreme court considers whether there was enough evidence or whether it points to the convicted. They look for procedural issues. So a death penalty conviction for SM would be guaranteed a review by another court. I just think there is a lot of evidence from this crime. Some will probably say that it is being used as a bargaining chip. May happen. Just glad they moved death row from Reidsville to Jackson. Would not like the idea of SM in my neck of the woods.
Acknowledging that SM has not been either tried or convicted.
 
I have been following this tragic story also. I am struck by the quick turnover of autopsy and DNA results that have been instrumental in the investigation. The autopsy was conducted and findings released the same day as the body was found. DNA evidence was processed the following day. Reports indicate that all tests were conducted by the GBI. I am wondering why the difference in timing between this case and the Giddings case. I am sure there are good reasons - I'm just curious about the stark contrast. Could it be because:

-FBI involvement slows the process down to months, rather than hours. If so, why the FBI involvement in one case but not the other?
-Possibly, results in the Giddings case were turned around quickly, we just weren't told about them.
-One case involves a minor, the other does not.
-In the Giddings case a POI (who local authorities felt was a strong suspect) was already in custody, albeit on a different charge. In the Rivera case, no suspect was in custody and evidence was needed quickly to find him.

Any ideas anyone?

Autopsy:
http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/canton-girl-died-of-1252353.html

Reference to DNA timing:
http://www.wsbtv.com/ap/ap/crime/authorities-autopsy-shows-missing-georgia-girl-was/nFt5r/

I think all of your suggestions are good possibilities.

Additionally, perhaps:

(1) Not having the entire body in Lauren's case obviously would have hindered autopsy and forensics.

(2) Weather conditions may have been a factor (extreme heat in Macon in late June, cooler in north Georgia in December -- preservation of evidence from/on bodies)

(3) The apparent crime scene in the recent case seems, from what we know, to have offered up more obvious evidence (bloodstains on a mattress, for example) than was present at Barristers Hall

(4) Those "preliminary" DNA results LE is expecting in the recent case may not be as quick as they anticipate (remember, there was confusion in Lauren's case, apparently, on when to actually expect results) Also, perhaps in Lauren's case, results from the preliminary-type testing (which, as I understand, can be expected more quickly) were not helpful to the investigation.
 
Seeking the death penalty against Stephen McDaniel

http://www.11alive.com/news/article...sought-for-McDaniel-in-Lauren-Giddings-murder

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/155872/175/DA-Seeks-Death-Penalty-for-Stephen-McDaniel

http://www.macon.com/2011/12/08/1816367/state-will-seek-death-penalty.html

http://www.41nbc.com/news/local-news/9256-state-seeks-death-penalty-against-stephen-mcdaniel

I am relieved that they are seeking the DP. I just do not see this person as "curable". He has no remorse, and there was just too much evil and planning prior to this murder. And the horrible manner in which he took her life and dismembered her.
 
New story up at macon.com

QUOTE:

DA to seek death penalty for McDaniel

....Billy Giddings wonders if the prospect of capital punishment might prompt the 26-year-old suspect to cooperate with authorities, to provide information about where his slain daughter&#8217;s remains might be -- if, in fact, McDaniel is responsible. ...

...McDaniel is scheduled for arraignment Monday in Bibb Superior Court on sexual exploitation of children charges brought against him. A separate hearing will be scheduled later on the murder charge. ...


read more at: http://www.macon.com/2011/12/09/1817195/da-to-seek-death-penalty-for-mcdaniel.html


ETA: So the arraignment Monday will concern only the child exploitation charges -- with the murder arraignment to be scheduled for later. (I wonder if it might be put off even until after Christmas...?) That makes sense -- if there is to be any time for possible "deal making" before the arraignment date for the murder charge.
 
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