Identified! NV - Las Vegas, 'Sahara Sue', WhtFem 17-25, UP159, dentures, jewelry, clothes, Aug'79 - Gwenn Marie Story

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These photo's that resemble Bonnie Ledford were found by police in convicted serial killer Rodney Alcala's storage unit
 

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Any tips on how to search for dentures as a key word. Also what sites do you check on?
To bad there's no sketch of the male with her. Maybe he would fit a serial killer that was in that area or something like that. Or could be her pimp. Would love to know how they acted towards each other. Friendly, or like a couple or whatever. I can't believe with an actual photo of the victim she hasn't been i.d.'d. That is very sad. Leads me to think she is a runaway.

Yes, it would really help to find out how they were acting towards each other when they were seen at the liquor store. Even a description of the "white male" that she was seen with would help, but a sketch would be great. She could be a tourist who something went terribly wrong between her and her friend -- maybe? Then when he returned to where they were visiting Las Vegas from he told people that she had left him or they had gotten into an argument and that was the last that he had seen of her?
 
DEBORAH RAE MEYER
Link:

 

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DEBORAH RAE MEYER
Link:


I asked the Mod to move your post to this thread.

Earlier in this thread, on Post #7, Fairy1 says that Deborah Rae Meyer has been ruled out against "Sahara Sue".

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NV NV- Las Vegas "Sahara Sue" August 1979 *merged*
 
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Hello CarlK90245,

Thank you for having my post moved! I have read post #7 it reads that Deborah Rae Meyer was claimed to be ruled out by finger prints but then she wasnt because Deborah Rae Meyers Juvenile prints are not in the system.

Then by Family DNA sample, this quote from Rick Jones Coroner/ Medical Examiner:

I called the missing persons mother, Diane and she was also told that DNA was not a match and that she and her husband were the biological parents of Deborah.

Was there a questions about her biological parents and how can they of proven that Diane and husband were in fact the bio parents without Deborahs DNA.

Then its by the parent ID almost 30 years later even know the date of missing and the death of the unidentified has an almost 5 year gap within the formative years for females. It doesnt surprise me very much that the mother did recognize the UIDs photos, jewelry and clothing. Also is it not possible that with parents in grief that Deborahs mother refused the ID to keep hope the Deborah is still alive just a thought

In regards to the ear growth, occasionally, a small growth may spontaneously fall off without any pain or discomfort. This may occur after the growth has twisted on itself at the base, interrupting the blood flow to the growth.

Another odd thing I noticed about the posts, was that it's from 03-06-2009 if she was ruled out as it reads then her name would have been added to the list of ruled out missing persons on NamUs (Especially because Deborah Rae Meyer and Jane Doe seem to be such a close match)

Oddly Deborah Rae Meyers name has not and the date last modified on Jane Doe was October 27, 2010 at 11:52 AM A year and eight months after they "ruled" her out.

I know some systems are out of date but to get funding and proceed with the ruling out process updates are required after the test are completed so that they are not run again. Especially when the pages have been updated so recently.

I have put together a timeline of events of ruling out Deborah Rae Meyer, out of the information online and given by posts with responses from:

Rick Jones D-ABMDI
Coroner Investigator
Latent Fingerprint Examiner
Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner
1704 Pinto Lane
Las Vegas, Nevada 89106
Office # (702) 455-3210
Direct # (702) 455-4271
Fax # (702) 455-3101
E-mail: rnj@co.clark.nv.us

Timeline

Oct 20th 1958 Date of birth of Deborah Rae Meyer

Age: 15
Location: Carbon County, Wyoming

Aug 13th 1979 Clark County Unidentifieds Death * according to NamUs

Aug 14th 1979 Clark County Unidentified Found

Found: Southwest corner of Sahara and Las Vegas Blvd.
City: Las Vegas
State: Nevada
County: Clark
Zip code: 89102

Circumstances of death: The decedent was found on 8/14/79 in the parking lot of a closed casino. She was partially disrobed lying face down in the parking lot. She had no identification on her person. She was the victim of a homicide due to multiple stab wounds. She was previously seen with an unknown white male nearby. She had NO TEETH. Upper Denture present - lower dentura plate missing.

June 30th 2007 Clark County Unidentified Entered into Namus

Mar 20th 2008 Farity1 Post: "Ruled Out NV" * Claims to have done print check
* Finger prints rule Deborah out


Member: Fairy1
Posted: 03-20-2008, 09:24 PM

Although this isn't the outcome we were hoping for, I did get a very quick response from Clark County coroner investigator, Rick Jones. He has passed on some helpful information and I told him to feel free to contact us anytime he feels we can be of help. Below is his response to our submission:

*advertiser censored*, thank you for the submission. I have been searching sites for years looking for young women with dentures on this case (very few found with dentures at young ages). We checked her several years ago by fingerprints and ruled her out. Thank you and please keep searching. Rick

In case you have not seen this new site of unidentifieds - they are trying to get all of the Coroner's Offices in the country to input their unidentified cases. It is called NAMEUS. Their site is; http://www.identifyus.org/

We put our cases into them as the more people that look at them, the better chance we have of getting them identified.

Thanks again.

Rick

Rick Jones D-ABMDI
Coroner Investigator
Latent Fingerprint Examiner
Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner
1704 Pinto Lane
Las Vegas, Nevada 89106
Office # (702) 455-3210
Direct # (702) 455-4271
Fax # (702) 455-3101
E-mail: rnj@co.clark.nv.us

Dang - I thought this was a positive match!


Mar 26 2008 - Farity1 Post: "Ruled Out NV" * Deborahs prints not even on file
* Claims to have DNA Rules her out
* Mother claims not Deborah due to ID Photo or Personal items even tho Deborah would have been missing for almost 5 years.


Member: Fairy1
Posted: 03-26-2008, 10:11 PM

Well, I've heard back from the Clark County coroner investigator again - in record time I might add! I sent him another message last night explaining that I wasn't confident about the fingerprints check when Deborah was only 14. He was kind enough to pull and review the records once again and discovered that, in fact, Deborah's fingerprints were never on file. However, he did find her mother on the Internet some time ago, as he was also convinced this was a probable match. They do have DNA from both Deborah and the UID and there isn't a match. Still not convinced, he had Deborah's mother look at the UID photos, jewelry and clothing and she has advised that this Jane Doe is definitely not her daughter.

I told the investigator that we will continue searching to help bring Deborah and Jane Doe back to their families. I am so relieved and proud to know that the Clark County Coroner's office is as dedicated as we are. The same cannot be said for all US counties! On we go.....



May 26 2009 Rain post: Porchlight International * DNA obtained from Family
* They confirmed Deborah as bio daughter but had none of Daborahs DNA to compare to parents
* Confirmed no Juvenile Prints available
* Did not have growth or removal spot


Member: rain
Posted: May 26, 2009 - 10:57 AM

MP:

UIP:
**Post-Mortem Pic**

*Ruled Out*

Email I recevied from the coroner:

I too have searched countless Missing Person Web Sites for this young girl and we found Deborah Meyer a few years back and our local PD obtained DNA from the family and ruled her out. I had a hard time with this as she was the only girl I found that also had a full set of dentures. I called the missing persons mother, Diane and she was also told that DNA was not a match and that she and her husband were the biological parents of Deborah. She also viewed our postmortem photo and described a growth on her left ear. I checked our autopsy photo's and our girl did not have a growth on her hear and there was no obvious scar to indicate it had been removed. Diane's viewing of the photo - she did not believe that our Jane Doe was her daughter. She nor the Rawlins PD had any juvenile fingerprints.

We are still searching.

Thank you and please keep looking.

Rick

Rick Jones D-ABMDI
Coroner Investigator
Latent Fingerprint Examiner
Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner
1704 Pinto Lane
Las Vegas, Nevada 89106
Office # (702) 455-3210
Direct # (702) 455-4271
Fax # (702) 455-3101
E-mail: rnj@co.clark.nv.us

<modsnip: broken link>

Apr 15th 2010 Deborah Entered into NamUs

Sample submitted - Tests complete
Dental information / charting is currently not available
Fingerprint information is currently not available
as of April 15, 2010


Oct 27th 2010 at 11:52 AM - Clark County Unidentified NamUs Page updated

* No ruled out Missing Persons entered

Samples submitted - Tests not complete
Dental information / charting is currently not available
Prints checked through local PD and FBI no matches in file.
as of October 27, 2010 at 11:52 AM
 
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Regarding the NamUs rule-out list, it is very common for the lists in NamUs to be incomplete. I know of quite a few instances of possible matches that I've called in and have been ruled out that never make it on to the UID's NamUs rule-out list

The NamUs rule-outs usually consist only of the possible matches that the NamUs automated matching system has proposed, and have been subsequently ruled-out. There is a means to manually enter rule-outs independent of the automated matching system, but very few people do that.

I also saw an article somewhere where the lead investigator in Clark County NV was discussing Sahara Sue, and mentioned that the were confident that Deborah Meyer would be a match, but she turned out not to be. After you posted this, I looked for the article, but couldn't find it.
 
I guess&#8230; i'm wondering what DNA the test was done with...because Rick Jones D-ABMDI Coroner Investigator, Latent Fingerprint Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner made a comment in is 2009 response that seem to question the family donated DNA...

"I called the missing persons mother, Diane and she was also told that DNA was not a match and that she and her husband were the biological parents of Deborah."

Was there a question of Diane and her husband not being the Biological parents, if so how would they have proven that they were without Deborah's DNA. Since they had to run the test with family donated DNA it makes me think that they do not have Deborah's own DNA. It just seems like an odd sentiment to make or even include in this response no?

Lastly, you seem to know quite a bit about the matching process can u please give me a quick &#8220;For Dummies&#8221; overview of the matching process

How is it if Deborah&#8217;s DNA was added in Apr 2010 and the test were completed and as of now no match seems to have been found but Jane Doe&#8217;s has been added since June 2007 and as of Oct 2010 the test is still not complete&#8230;please explain!!!
 
How is it if Deborah’s DNA was added in Apr 2010 and the test were completed and as of now no match seems to have been found but Jane Doe’s has been added since June 2007 and as of Oct 2010 the test is still not complete…please explain!!!

It may be that the DNA profile has been available for Sahara Sue for manual comparisons, but wasn't yet entered into the CODIS system. Perhaps they might have sent samples to Bode Technologies (i.e., a subcontractor for Univ of North TX) for inclusion in CODIS.

That's how i would interpret it.
 
I tend to believe that Deborah was a victim of this creep Royal Russell Long. while I'm no expert in criminology, I doubt that a serial killer would have kept his victim alive for 5 years which is the time gap between Deborah's disappearance in Wyoming and the death of the UID in Vegas.

so notwithstanding the inconsistent stories about fingerprints, etc, I see the gap in time and distance to weigh heavily against this match.
 
I have been told that this UID was exhumed and her DNA was extracted and sent for testing. A few years ago, Clark County got a grant to exhume and extract DNA of UID's and she was one of the last to be in the program.

They should have a DNA profile in a few months.
 
These photo's that resemble Bonnie Ledford were found by police in convicted serial killer Rodney Alcala's storage unit
I thought this might be Marie Ann Blee...but maybe Alcala was in prison by then....
 
Hello
Im very new here, and this might be totally off base, but this case fascinated me, so Im just throwing out a suggestion.

Could Sahara Sue be related to Betty Marie Roberts(possibly her daughter)?

The reasons I thought this was possible

*Sahara Sue has kind of similar facial features as Betty Marie Roberts.
*Betty Marie Roberts wore dentures. Sahara Sue had dentures. Possible genetic tooth problem/disease?
*Betty Marie Roberts disappeared 20 years before Sahara Sue was found. She could possibly have had a child after she went missing, and then the child would be around 17-19 years old. That could explain why this girl was never reported missing, as BMRs relatives and friends never knew about her existence.

Links to Bettys case
1364DFMD - Betty M. Roberts
 
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Could this girl be a possible?

Karen Kamsch

Karen Beth Kamsch
Missing since Fall/winter of 1976 from Pasadena, Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: January 19, 1962
Age at Time of Disappearance: 14 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'0"; 100 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes
DNA: In CODIS.
Circumstances of Disappearance
In 1976, Karen's grandmother, Olga Kamsch, looked for the teenager at home when she failed to show up for school. She found Karen's belongings, including her winter coat, but not Karen. Karen had moved in with her grandmother on Wishing Rock Road in Pasadena before she vanished because she was having problems with her family.

Family members told police that as a child, Karen was a straight A student who was so smart she skipped sixth grade. It was after the advancement of grade levels that Karen started hanging with the wrong crowd and getting into trouble. She ran away a couple of times and got into normal teenage trouble.

Police were told Karen's father and her grandmother, who has since died, reported the disappearance to police, but detectives don't have records of that report. Checks of computer systems have been unable to verify Karen Kamsch's existence since 1976.

On May 15, 2007, police formally filed a missing-person report.
According to school officials Karen attended Brooklyn Park Senior High School through at least June 1976. After talking to family members, police have reason to think Karen may have been abused.
Detectives believe her disappearance is suspicious in nature and she may have been murdered.

Investigators
 
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I have contacted the ME listed for this case to see if I can get a full list of rule-out's and/or to clarify if the 3 names on Namus are the only missing persons that have been ruled out.

Will let everyone know how I go.

P
 
Well I hate to say this, but I recalculated and I was actually almost 15!

...no Las Vegan in their right mind would have been wearing a jacket! So my guess is she was not from round here. Honestly, she could have been from anywhere.

Just my .02, but I also don't think she'd have been walking around Las Vegas barefoot. Either she was from a nearby hotel, or perhaps left her shoes in her male "companion's" car?
 
Just my .02, but I also don't think she'd have been walking around Las Vegas barefoot. Either she was from a nearby hotel, or perhaps left her shoes in her male "companion's" car?

She might have taken them off if they were uncomfortable and she was being chased by her killer.
 
I just noticed that there is now a frontal postmortem photo of Sahara Sue in NamUs.

WARNING - POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK

Here is my facial reconstruction for Sahara Sue based on the newly posted postmortem photo.


d39be6ae-0a2e-4bab-9a7e-d81ff1dee61c.jpg
 
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