17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #10

[gxm]

My family is mixed too, and I can tell you that some in our family yell "racist" every chance they get. YET some don’t play the race card just because it has a lot of juice. I know race is still an international problem not only for black people, but playing the race card just because it has juice only helps to create a bigger divide. :moo:

Me too. I still shake me head at my crazy multi-racial ex-DIL telling my grandson's black principal that she was "racist" because the school insisted that she get my grandson to school on time. True story.

 

[annalia]

If I lived in an area where I knew the PD had "racial" issues in the past........I would have called him on DAY ONE. I would do everything in my power to seek justice for my child.

That and, I'm only going by memory here, didn't police pretty much give the family GZ's version as if it was fact, telling the family that GZ was "squeaky clean"?

Then police later backtracked saying they only meant it as it was what GZ said about himself, that the family misconstrued it? As if that made any sense or made it any better?

And, in my opinion, looks like the family was right in calling in an attorney. It says the cousin called Crump first, I'm pretty sure it would have been the cousin to give the family his name.

JMHO

 

[Isabelle]

The pictures of Trayvon to me show a sweet teenager. He doesn't look like a person who would have done or said the things GZ is alleging. GZ on the other hand is a different story.

Wonder when that was taken? So handsome.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

IF they were upright? but they were not.
From witness accounts they were on the ground when the shot happened.
One on top of the other,
SO I cannot see how GZ could have stepped back a few feet to just hold the gun at TM and wait for the police.
When people roll on the ground that can’t happen.
We don’t know who started anything to end up on the ground.

You're absolutely right. They were rolling around on the ground. That tells me that both GZ and TM got a hand on that gun. Both trying to push it (gun) in the direction that the muzzle is pointed at the other (and TM actually would have had an advantage with this being its harder for the person who drew the gun to have enough strength to keep your wrist and hand from being bent backwards - turn the muzzle on yourself - then it is for your attacker to push or twist your hand backwards).

Either way - if there was a struggle for or over that gun - BOTH handprints will be on it. No doubt. To re-holster it after the shot could wipe prints off. If you were the "victor" (meaning the one that did not get shot when it went off) why would you do that? Why would you not just drop it? Preserve that fingerprint evidence and help bolster your self defense claim?

And being on the ground doesn't really mean much, as opposed to being up right. Once you get a gun out and pointed - you can "scootch" yourself backward pushing with your feet. You can bends your legs at the knees and get yourself up right. All the while have the attacker at gun point.

The way I see it - there has to be evidence of TM reaching, grabbing, getting a hand on that gun for the self defense claim to be valid. If there isn't - then once that gun is drawn and pointed - you have that attacker at gun point and you have the advantage. There is now no need to pull that trigger.

I'm just saying - re-holstering that gun was a really dumb mistake by GZ. It could have destroyed evidence that would have proved his claim.



JMHO.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I tend to think that during the first couple of minutes of the 911 call, Zimmerman was parked along the street watching Trayvon, primarily because of the flow of statements from these snips of the call:

911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:
Yeah

Now he’s staring at me.

Now he’s coming toward me.

Something’s wrong with him.

Yep, he’s coming to check me out.

I don’t know what his deal is

I don’t know much about this guy, but I noticed that he also shows Zimmerman as parked on the street in the early part of the call:

http://marinadedave.com/journal/2012/3/22/the-tragedy-of-trayvon-martin.html#comments

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[LambChop]

Was not even being investigated? On day 2?

LE investigates the moment there is an established crime. If TM's father had been told the next morning that GZ claimed self defense and no charges were filed against him, of course Mr. Martin could contact an attorney. The fact that the attorney was experienced in civil rights would tell me Mr. Martin wanted a seasoned attorney to aggressively examine the evidence that was painting his son's death as justified homocide. Wouldn't you want to know what happened. This attorney would demand answers and if he did not like what he heard he'd head straight to the FBI. I'd want an aggressive attorney myself if that were my son to at least find out exactly what happened. jmo

 

[Isabelle]

That and, I'm only going by memory here, didn't police pretty much give the family GZ's version as if it was fact, telling the family that GZ was "squeaky clean"?

Then police later backtracked saying they only meant it as it was what GZ said about himself, that the family misconstrued it? As if that made any sense or made it any better?

And, in my opinion, looks like the family was right in calling in an attorney. It says the cousin called Crump first, I'm pretty sure it would have been the cousin to give the family his name.

JMHO

Sounds to me like police were inept and incapable of empathy.

 

[songline]

And, Daddy may have had some really strong connections real high up.

It is not customary for Wolfinger to come to the scene on a rainy Sunday night. that is why I believe that a professional courtesy is what it is about.
That is why a decision was made so fast too.
:moo: INVESTIGATE :moo:
One of the two victims cannot speak
YES we do have 2 victims.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Does anybody know when the famiy of TM was told that the case was closed?

I'm looking but I can't find it anywhere.

 

[pkz]

When exactly was the family told the case was closed?
Do you know?

Gee, they decided not to charge Zimmerman that very night, so I guess they told the Martin family that while showing them the morgue pix of their son!


The network said Serino was instructed not to charge Zimmerman after the office of Brevard and Seminole county prosecutor Norman Wolfinger concluded there was insufficient evidence to prosecute the case.
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...man-charged/UPI-41991332833400/#ixzz1qcDeUMjT

 

[iluvmua]

Why would you give the family $500 just so you could get a special shirt and poster mailed to you? didn't George and Cindy mail out Caylee bears to whoever donated to their fund?

 

[Isabelle]

LE investigates the moment there is an established crime. If TM's father had been told the next morning that GZ claimed self defense and no charges were filed against him, of course Mr. Martin could contact an attorney. The fact that the attorney was experienced in civil rights would tell me Mr. Martin wanted a seasoned attorney to aggressively examine the evidence that was painting his son's death as justified homocide. Wouldn't you want to know what happened. This attorney would demand answers and if he did not like what he heard he'd head straight to the FBI. I'd want an aggressive attorney myself if that were my son to at least find out exactly what happened. jmo

Agreed, because you know da*n well the parents weren't going to get a straight answer. It's been 8 years for me and I still haven't gotten a straight answer; not my fault if I 'go postal' one of these days.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

LE investigates the moment there is an established crime. If TM's father had been told the next morning that GZ claimed self defense and no charges were filed against him, of course Mr. Martin could contact an attorney. The fact that the attorney was experienced in civil rights would tell me Mr. Martin wanted a seasoned attorney to aggressively examine the evidence that was painting his son's death as justified homocide. Wouldn't you want to know what happened. This attorney would demand answers and if he did not like what he heard he'd head straight to the FBI. I'd want an aggressive attorney myself if that were my son to at least find out exactly what happened. jmo

BBM-
Was he told the next morning that the case was closed?
Or was he told they were still investigating?

Have you seen that info anywhere?

I think it makes a difference. To me anyway.

 

[Etilema]

Maybe we need to ask the question of how people would feel about shooting someone caught in the act of burglary. If someone sees a guy trying to break into a neighbor's home, and it's clear and obvious that it is a burglary in progress, would it be ok to shoot that guy? I know it's not legal, but I suspect that a lot of people feel like it's right to do, anyway, that maybe it should be legal, or at least it should be dealt with leniently.

Because otherwise the only reason it would matter whether Trayvon were a criminal is if it means you believe he would proactively attack someone watching him. Indeed, if there is proof that it is likely Travyon would or did deliberately attack GZ (came up behind him, or ran at him and began beating him), then it is relevant in determining whether GZ was in the right. Even if GZ was following him, deliberately attacking GZ would not be called for and GZ would be in the right to shoot in self-defense, IMO.

But unless Trayvon did deliberately attack him, as opposed to responding to a verbal or physical threat by GZ, it does not matter if he had done 100 burglaries before that night. We don't have the "he needed killin" defense.

All JMO.

 

[OneLove]

Was not even being investigated? On day 2?

Should have been investigated ON THE SCENE starting from when LE first arrived. Where are the clothes from GZ? Where is the gunpowder evidence? Where is the uncleaned gun with prints? Where is there ANY evidence that this situation was investigated WITHOUT bias by the police department, from the very MOMENT it happened? Day 2 is already TOO LATE, opportunity gone for much evidence. Thank heavens for the 911 calls, especially fro
the shooter's own mouth. After hearing THAT, I would have gotten an attorney ASAP.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Gee, they decided not to charge Zimmerman that very night, so I guess they told the Martin family that while showing them the morgue pix of their son!


The network said Serino was instructed not to charge Zimmerman after the office of Brevard and Seminole county prosecutor Norman Wolfinger concluded there was insufficient evidence to prosecute the case.
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...man-charged/UPI-41991332833400/#ixzz1qcDeUMjT

So, your post that implied the SPD told TM's father that the case was closed was just a guess?
Or did you see that somewhere?

Because even if GZ was not arrested THAT NIGHT, why would the family think the investigation was closed if LE didn't tell them that?

 

[annalia]

Rest in peace Trayvon...

Wow, and that looks like a recent picture. Still doesn't look like anything but a normal teen.

RIP Trayvon

JMHO

 

[Isabelle]

Is this case still going to the GJ in April? or is it possible something could happen before that?

 

[ThoughtFox]

My point is, I don't think the entire "Innocent kid wearing a hoodie who is black, walking home from store with skittles and iced tea shot by racist vigilante is the entire story like the family/media would want us to believe.

Frankly, few kids in this country are completely "innocent" by the time they reach the age of 17. Where I live it is so conservative that almost no child, white/black/yellow/red, grows up without a drinking under age charge because the cops raid parties. And that includes kids with parents in "good" families from gated communities. They have to go pay the bail money like everyone else. The vast majority of those charges are expunged by the time the kid is 21 and rightfully so.

I've known kids who were suspended from school for really stupid things like having a single word on their cellphone. Schools don't need a search warrant if the kid agrees to giving them their phone. Yes, principals have that kind of power, and believe me they love to use it.

But there's no law against walking from a house to a store and back again, even wearing a hoodie, even being black in a white neighborhood. That's where the whole Civil Rights Thingy kicks in.

Trayvon had a reason for being where he was, and did not owe Zimmerman an explanation. Anyone would be nervous if a guy in a van was trailing him down the street like a predator.

How ironic that the police in Sandford have warned the media not to follow anyone because they won't abide "stalking." Pity they never explained that to George Z. Maybe the 911 guy should have said, "Don't stalk that kid, George." Although really I don't think it would have stopped Zimmerman. :twocents:

 

[songline]

LE investigates the moment there is an established crime. If TM's father had been told the next morning that GZ claimed self defense and no charges were filed against him, of course Mr. Martin could contact an attorney. The fact that the attorney was experienced in civil rights would tell me Mr. Martin wanted a seasoned attorney to aggressively examine the evidence that was painting his son's death as justified homocide. Wouldn't you want to know what happened. This attorney would demand answers and if he did not like what he heard he'd head straight to the FBI. I'd want an aggressive attorney myself if that were my son to at least find out exactly what happened. jmo

BBM YES all parents want to know and should.
Wrongful death is not the same as having someone screaming from day one "Murdered in cold blood" That is not an attorney that wants the fact out, or wants an investigation...:moo:
:moo: that is an attorney that gravitates to only use "the race card"
and accomplishes more of a racial divide, which was not MLK's vission.