17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

[katydid23]

<modsnip>


The NAACP is threatening to unleash massive civil unrest unless Zimmerman is immediately arrested. <modsnip> Why wouldn't his family feel he was being unfairly crucified---especially if he never uttered the racial slur and was instrumental in previous civil rights cases himself.

It is amazing that anyone would think it was not a racial issue until this letter was sent.

 

[Footwarrior]

BEM: But by the same token, what was Trayvon doing for the three minutes GZ had lost sight of him - stalking George? This is not just one of my sticking points, this is one of the reasons, according to Lee, credibility was lent to GZ's story. If Trayvon was scared, he'd have gone home. Where was he during that time??

eta: looking for a link if anyone is not familiar with Lee's comments.

GZ thought that TM was headed for the back gate. If GZ ran towards the back gate, it would put GZ between TM and home. From TM's perspective, it would make sense to wait for the strange guy that had been staring at him from a pickup to leave before walking the rest of the way home.

 

[HiHater]

I find two things very odd about the girlfriend's story.
7:11:59 - Subject running toward back of complex
7:12 - Trayvon's girlfriend calls Trayvon at almost the exact moment he takes off running. (GZ had no way of knowing this)

Trayvon tells her a strange man is staring at him, although he's already run away from GZ. Girlfriend tells him to run, he says he's not going to run, he's going to walk fast.

7:16 - Phone call between TM and GF ends suddenly when Trayvon's ear plugs fall out. No one is going to convince me the call ended at that moment. His phone was in his pocket - he'd have had to turn it off for it to disconnect. I'm just not buying it.

Those 2 things are not odd IMO.

They back up the story that GZ chased or continued to follow Trayvon. Like you said GZ had no way of knowing when the girlfriend called, so if Trayvon said someone was following him, why wouldn't we believe it? The girlfriend had no clue about timing either.

Secondly, she may have hung up on her own thinking that the line went dead. She could have been saying "helloo, helllooooo, helllooooo" and getting no answer so she hung up and tried to call right back. Getting voicemail...

JMO IMO MOO

 

[uvamerica]

That is a disturbing letter. Threatening.

I agree, I kept reading the letter over and over because I could not believe what I was reading.
One thing I didn't copy was the underlining of the words "black community" in the 2nd paragraph of my post (I couldn't figure out how to do it):blushing:
If the family thinks this letter will help their cause they are sadly mistaken. :moo:

 

[Beyond Belief]

Could they use the voice mail messages she left in court if they bear any information that could be important? Like expressing concern etc.

 

[highflyer]

I agree, I kept reading the letter over and over because I could not believe what I was reading.
One thing I didn't copy was the underlining of the words "black community" in the 2nd paragraph of my post (I couldn't figure out how to do it):blushing:
If the family thinks this letter will help their cause they are sadly mistaken. :moo:

It doesn't mean that it was actually from the Zimmerman family. Could be from anybody.

 

[HiHater]

I totally disagree. "Punks" is not a race-specific slur. IMO, it's not even a slur. Without the racial slur, it will be very hard to press hate crime charges, much less convict on basically nothing other than TM was an AA teen and the person who shot him is a 20-something Hispanic man.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

A racial slur is not required to press hate crime charges. The FBI simply needs to show that a crime was committed in whole or IN PART because of bias. That's a foregone conclusion in this case; even Frank Taaffe is saying Zimmerman targeted Trayvon because there had been 8 burglaries and ALL were committed by young black males.
JMO MOO IMO

 

[vlpate]

GZ thought that TM was headed for the back gate. If GZ ran towards the back gate, it would put GZ between TM and home. From TM's perspective, it would make sense to wait for the strange guy that had been staring at him from a pickup to leave before walking the rest of the way home.

I don't understand. GZ told the dispatcher TM was running "toward" the back gate, not toward him. His father's girlfriend's place was near the back gate. They started out by the club house.

You've lost me.

 

[rbrnmw2]

You know it really isn't funny but it is......we get so dug in around here with our thoughts that sometimes all of us get slapped out of the blue by something like that. :what: I can't very well say oh he's right about one but not the other...and peeps that thought he was the devil can't say oh he's right about this but not the screaming. He got us all.......:floorlaugh:

We can't have it both ways it's moo

Sent from my Huawei U8800-51 using Tapatalk

 

[katydid23]

A racial slur is not required to press hate crime charges. The FBI simply needs to show that a crime was committed in whole or IN PART because of bias. That's a foregone conclusion in this case; even Frank Taaffe is saying Zimmerman targeted Trayvon because there had been 8 burglaries and ALL were committed by young black males.
JMO MOO IMO

Nothing is a foregone conclusion in this case, imo.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Then why did he bother to ask " what are you doing here?" If his goal was to kill this kid all along, why bother talking to him at all? And why were they wrestling around on the ground? Why would GZ knock TM onto the ground if he was planning to shoot and kill him?

Excellent questions. The answer is that I don't know.

The following is my opinion:

I believe that GZ intended to kill TM while talking to 911. That was the script he was working off. : crazy black guy, on drugs, looking this way, checking him out, coming toward him, hand in waistband, holding something, please send an officer...

Dammit he ran!

Note that none of these assertions were expanded upon, as one might expect in normal conversation. They were simply thrown out there, one after another, like breadcrumbs on the self-defense trail. Three problems: first people don't talk that way; second: IF an unknown drugged up stranger was approaching your vehicle looking like he had just pulled a weapon you wouldn't open the door and hop out, you would hit the gas; third: none of this nonsense fits Trayvon at all, he wasn't a gang member, he didn't have a gun, and he damn sure wasn't interested in a confrontation with the strange dude. In fact, when the strange dude opened his car door and started to get out, something in his body language scared Trayvon so much he run away.

Once Trayvon ran GZ was off the script and winging it. Now he's ANGRY. It's not going the way he intended. He had this nice self-defense script all worked out and the kid screwed it up.

What actually happened during the final confrontation we will likely never know. We do know that there wasn't some epic beatdown, and we know they weren't even particularly wrestling on the ground. We know this because you can't really wrestle and scream like that. It seems a safe assumption that Trayvon's final minute was spent begging for his life.

But that's all just MY OPINION.

 

[JeannaT]

That is a disturbing letter. Threatening.

I don't see any threats whatsoever in that letter - I see a lot of pain, and hurt, and fear.

And truth, actually.

I read this as a "how could you, after the effort that George went to last year in your community? How could you?"

 

[HiHater]

GZ even starts the 911 call by saying "we had a lot burglaries" or something like that. The burglaries committed by young black males were fresh on his mind---and here's another suspicious young black male who just might get away.

That's a foregone conclusion IMO

 

[gxm]

A racial slur is not required to press hate crime charges. The FBI simply needs to show that a crime was committed in whole or IN PART because of bias. That's a foregone conclusion in this case; even Frank Taaffe is saying Zimmerman targeted Trayvon because there had been 8 burglaries and ALL were committed by young black males.
JMO MOO IMO

IMO, without the racial slur it will be very hard to prosecute as a hate crime. GZ doesn't even identify TM as black until asked and even then he has to wait for TM to turn around before he can decisively say he's black. The call to LE was initiated before GZ could even confirm TM's race. As for Taaffe, he is entitled to his opinion but why anyone is listening to it is beyond me.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[HiHater]

I don't see any threats whatsoever in that letter - I see a lot of pain, and hurt, and fear.

And truth, actually.

I read this as a "how could you, after the effort that George went to last year in your community? How could you?"

I read it as though GZ and family feel like the black community owes GZ something, and they do not.


JMO MOO IMO

 

[Chris_Texas]

I agree. It sounds like "cold" to me. And I'm guessing GZ doesn't even remember muttering "f'ing cold" under his breath. It's the sort of thing you say to yourself without even thinking.

Further, IMO, the tape should never have been "enhanced" to look for the elusive racial element so many were seeking. IMO, a person committing a hate crime does not mutter inaudible slurs. They shout them. Even further, a person who is committing a hate crime doesn't call LE so that he can be recorded using those slurs moments before shooting a teenager dead.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

I could believe cold I suppose. In truth, I don't really care what the guy said under his breath -- it means very little. I care more about the OTHER things he said to the dispatcher. In my opinion almost everything that came out of GZ's mouth during that call was a lie.

 

[uvamerica]

It doesn't mean that it was actually from the Zimmerman family. Could be from anybody.

I'm sorry, my mistake, I should have said alleged letter :blushing:

 

[gxm]

GZ even starts the 911 call by saying "we had a lot burglaries" or something like that. The burglaries committed by young black males were fresh on his mind---and here's another suspicious young black male who just might get away.

That's a foregone conclusion IMO

Correct. He does not start the call to LE saying "we had a lot of burglaries committed by black guys." He only mentions burglaries. Crime in the area, not TM's skin color, was the basis for GZ's suspicion.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Desdemona]

I'd like to know the positions of their bodies. For instance, could they have both been on their backs with GZ on bottom while holding Tray on top while wrestling? I have assumed that they were face to face while on the ground but don't recall reading such.

The only thing I have read with specifics is that GZ was staddling Tray, who was face down on the ground after the shooting.

Just trying to think outside the box. I am waaaay behind as my computer is still :maddening:

MOO Tia, wm

Here is a scenario that IMO agrees with the witnesses, evidence, timeline and police report as we have them at this point. Disclaimer -- This is MOO and speculation only:

A physical fight has begun. TM has the upper hand and is on top. GZ's head hits the sidewalk a couple of times. They are grappling violently on the ground. Both men are vocalizing loudly. GZ sees the bystander (witness) and calls out for him to help. Bystander yells at "him" (who?) "to stop" but keeps his distance from the fighting men. Says he is calling 911 and leaves the scene to do so. GZ and TM are now alone. Struggle continues and escalates to the tipping point. GZ shoots TM at close range, abruptly ending the fight. TM stands or staggers for a moment as GZ scrambles to his feet. TM, mortally wounded, crumples or falls to the ground face down. GZ then straddles TM (perhaps pinning him for his own safety just in case?) and checks TM for a weapon and/or signs of life, etc. Witnesses immediately begin to emerge/gather. LE arrives at the scene almost instantly, as a unit was already on its way due to GZ's earlier call to report a suspicious person.

Not saying I believe that is what happened, and I am not on anyone's "side." IMO, without more factual evidence to consider, none of us can know with any certainty in this climate of heated rhetoric, misinformation and hysteria. Just explaining one example of how TM could end up face down after being shot, with GZ standing over or straddling him in the moments after he went down. JMO

 

[norest4thewicked]

After listening to the even more enhanced audio it sounds even less like punks than before. There is no way in hell that word was punks, it's absurd in my opinion.

It sounded like "cold" to me...

Now I heard it enhanced and in slowwwww speed and sounds like F'ing punks. It sure doesn't use the C word...you can hear that very clearly.