17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #22

[RANCH]

Well, I don't claim to be right at all, lol, that's just my opinion about one way the state can fight the SYG claim to immunity. As gitana1 suggested there is also the confrontation started by GZ, and whatever else has come out of the AG's investigation.

I don't think this is an easy case but what I'm reading about this prosecutor, she wouldn't have filed these charges if she wasn't pretty sure the state has a good chance to win.

If your opinion is that the SA can show that continuing to follow someone is the same as repeatedly following someone, then you may a good point.

If the SA can prove that GZ initiated physical (not verbal) contact with Trayvon, then they have a good case for him being an aggressor.

 

[m00c0w]

I don't know about that @Donjeta re: this possibly being "double jeopardy."

My understanding of double jeopardy is that you have to have had a first, official trial. GZ hasn't been before a jury yet re: TM's death. The cops just questioned him, made no arrest, and released him, as far as I can tell after a few hours.

So double jeopardy wouldn't apply. A full trial is warranted.

I don't know if this has been responded to, but that is factually incorrect. I've already cited the appropriate case law that supports double jeopardy applying to multiple similar charges for the same crime (Rutledge v. United States being the most recent example brought before the SCOTUS). A person cannot be punished twice for committing one crime. This essentially amounts to only one charge per crime committed.

 

[mdana]

Zimmerman's brother is saying that Trayvon put his "entire body weight" on George, covering his mouth and his nose, while crushing his nose into his skull.

Ummm, Trayvon weighed between 140-150 pounds. Couldn't he have just thrown him off?

When I was 15 or 16 I weighed 145 lbs. I jumped a guy that was at least 240lbs. He could not do anything to stop me and two other people had to tear me off of him. This was after I had decided to relent and not do anymore damage. So, IMO he may not have been able to just throw him off, if that story Z's brother told is true, which I am skeptical.

 

[katydid23]

Angela Corey is the prosecuter in the Christian Fernadez case which I never realized until now. I have not seen this mentioned in any reports of her I have seen on MSNBC or CNN. I think she is acting unethically and immorally in that case in charging a 13 year old that has suffered years of sexual and physical abuse as an adult. She is also costing the county of Duval with two separate trials for Christian.

She seems to have a very high conviction rate in her office, but is that due to overwhelming mostly public defenders by throwing the book at their clients? Time will tell if she overcharged, but I think she is trying to get a plea bargain which I hate in most instances. I think plea bargains are fine in moderation, but I think prosecutors abuse it in getting people to plead to charges that should go before a jury or defendants are forced into serving more time than justice would dictate.

CA was overcharged, and the jury was fine. However, we will have to agree to disagree on those issues.

Thanks for the response.

This defendant is the youngest person to ever be charged as an adult with murder in Jacksonville, Florida.
He is 12 years old.
If convicted, could spend the rest of his life in prison. His name is Cristian Fernandez.
“Yes, I have compassion for Cristian Fernandez, but it's not my job to forgive,” says Florida State Attorney Angela Corey. “It's my job to follow the law."


Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...fernandezs-case-sparks-outrage/#ixzz1rntBKCIw

 

[RANCH]

This defendant is the youngest person to ever be charged as an adult with murder in Jacksonville, Florida.
He is 12 years old.
If convicted, could spend the rest of his life in prison. His name is Cristian Fernandez.
“Yes, I have compassion for Cristian Fernandez, but it's not my job to forgive,” says Florida State Attorney Angela Corey. “It's my job to follow the law."


Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...fernandezs-case-sparks-outrage/#ixzz1rntBKCIw

I just looked at the photo from your link and that's a child. 12 years old up for murder?

 

[katydid23]

I just looked at the photo from your link and that's a child. 12 years old up for murder?

Yup. He shoved his 2 yr old brother into a shelf and fractured his skull.His mom, who abused and tortured him all of his life, refused to take the 2 yr old in for medical help. That assured it was a death and not just an injury. And this 12 yr old is probably going to get LIFE in prison. But as the prosecutor says, The law is the law, and it is not her job to be compassionate here. Oh well.

 

[RANCH]

Yup. He shoved his 2 yr old brother into a shelf and fractured his skull.His mom, who abused and tortured him all of his life, refused to take the 2 yr old in for medical help. That assured it was a death and not just an injury. And this 12 yr old is probably going to get LIFE in prison. But as the prosecutor says, The law is the law, and it is not her job to be compassionate here. Oh well.

Thanks for the link to that story. It certainly gives me a different outlook on who Angela Corey is.

 

[mdana]

I think people should watch Rashomon whenever they follow a case. I don't think there is one truth. Everyone involved sees and hears things through their own prism of perspective. So, we never get an ultimate truth just a facisimile of a replica and something is lost in the transcribing process.

 

[Cher352]

I just looked at the photo from your link and that's a child. 12 years old up for murder?

WOW and 1st degree no less??? AC is tough isn't she?

 

[Donjeta]

I don't know if this has been responded to, but that is factually incorrect. I've already cited the appropriate case law that supports double jeopardy applying to multiple similar charges for the same crime (Rutledge v. United States being the most recent example brought before the SCOTUS). A person cannot be punished twice for committing one crime. This essentially amounts to only one charge per crime committed.

But how did Casey Anthony then end up being charged for

1) First-Degree Murder:
2)Second-Degree Murder
3)Aggravated Child Abuse
4)Aggravated Manslaughter

That's essentially four charges for the same crime. I assume that she couldn't have been found guilty of, sentenced for and punished for first degree murder, second degree murder and manslaughter at the same time, but she was certainly charged for them all.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/casey-anthony-verdict-what-are-the-seven-charges-51862/

 

[Donjeta]

LOL!!! You don't think so?

Here is the transcript from tonight's Piers Morgan show:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/11/pmt.01.html

What stood out to me the most were his repeated reassurances that his brother is safe. He mentioned it five times.

Yeah. Unlike Trayvon Martin.

ZIMMERMAN: Right. I actually -- I'm glad you brought that up, Piers. First of all, like I said in our first interview, neither one of us are doctors to make that presumption, say X, Y, Z is perfectly OK. Second of all, my brother has, as anyone who is familiar with carrying concealed weapons -- when you carry a concealed weapon, there is a different burden that you have, because you have a weapon that cannot just kill you but can kill other people.

For example, if someone takes your gun in a shopping mall and just starts shooting people. Now your weapon -- you've lost control of your weapon and it is being used to kill people or hurt people. There's a different burden when you get into an altercation with someone.

Is he saying that GZ shot TM to prevent him from taking his gun and going to the mall to shoot somebody? :waitasec:

 

[Etilema]

What stood out to me the most were his repeated reassurances that his brother is safe. He mentioned it five times.

Yeah. Unlike Trayvon Martin.




Is he saying that GZ shot TM to prevent him from taking his gun and going to the mall to shoot somebody? :waitasec:

No, just that if you have a gun you have more of a responsibility to defend yourself, so you don't endanger others. I would think that that greater responsibility would extend to AVOIDING altercations in the first place!

 

[Donjeta]

I have been thinking about this for awhile. It's just something about him and his position.
What if GZ was repeating what someone else had told him about Tray looking suspicious...he seemed to have gathered a lot of info about Tray to have only been following him for a short time. Does that make sense?

sbm.

It IS kind of hard IMO to tell in a brief glimpse if someone is suspiciously walking about looking drugged and up to no good in a hoodie or not if it's dark and raining and you just drive past quickly. Where did he first spot TM? I'm still not clear about that.

 

[mfcmom]

My gut is telling me this boy was shot in the back. I don't think AC would have charged second degree if she didn't have physical evidence. When a lawyer like Jane Weintraub, who usually is very vocal regarding defending a client, suspects this as she stated on CNN this morning, I really believe this is what happened. JMHO

 

[ThoughtFox]

The problem is that George seemed to be "projecting" his fears onto anyone he saw walking around his . . . what would call it . . . territory, perhaps?

What George had were strong opinions about people, but that didn't make them true, or we wouldn't be here talking about Trayvon.

And just because there was some other guy who lived there that George was right about (as per the story by Frank Taaffe on Jane Velez-Mitchell) and who was eventually arrested, didn't mean that George had some type of sixth sense about perpetrators, especially when they weren't actually doing anything illegal.

I'm honestly surprised that people didn't complain to either Neighborhood Watch or the Neighborhood Association. I bet we hear eventually that they did, but George had friends there who took up for him.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/joe-oliv...ing-some-bad-decisions-roland-martin-reports/

Good morning everyone...Very glad that the wheels of justice are starting to roll...this will be a trial to watch...

I just happened upon the above..GZ's good friend Joe Oliver sent him a text that he was being wrongly advised and is making some 'bad' decisions...Ya think?

I became teary eyed yesterday when Sabrina Fulton along with Tracy Martin and her other son watched the presser where the charges were announced..their expressions just bowled me over...for I feel their pain and I feel how much they want justice for their son/brother, Trayvon...and the wheels of justice are starting to roll...I am grateful to the Special Prosecutor and her team...ACorey is a great advocate for victims, as she stated yesterday...

Justice for Trayvon Martin....begins

 

[mfcmom]

The problem is that George seemed to be "projecting" his fears onto anyone he saw walking around his . . . what would call it . . . territory, perhaps?

What George had were strong opinions about people, but that didn't make them true, or we wouldn't be here talking about Trayvon.

And just because there was some other guy who lived there that George was right about (as per the story by Frank Taaffe on Jane Velez-Mitchell) and who was eventually arrested, didn't mean that George had some type of sixth sense about perpetrators, especially when they weren't actually doing anything illegal.

I'm honestly surprised that people didn't complain to either Neighborhood Watch or the Neighborhood Association. I bet we hear eventually that they did, but George had friends there who took up for him.

IIRC there was mention in the Orlando Sentinel that there had been complaints to the HOA about him, it was brushed off (I believe the complaintant was also black) I will try to find a link for you after the kids get off to school. JMO

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

It does not appear to me that Trayvon pursued George in any way. If he would have stayed in the car and waited for the cops, this would not be happening. How did Trayvon pursue George?

Even if.....Is Punching someone in the nose "...deadly force....?.". Without him carrying a concealed weapon, even legal, this would not be happening. Something else maybe, but not a gunshot victim. "V"

ALL TOTALLY IMO! :maddening:

I saw a mugshot of GZ, he doesn't appear to have a broken nose..embellished but did they not think this could be proven?

http://hollywoodite.com/george-zimmerman-mug-shot-trayvon-martin
Mugshot at above link...scroll down past the article...

 

[Concerned Papa]

sbm.

It IS kind of hard IMO to tell in a brief glimpse if someone is suspiciously walking about looking drugged and up to no good in a hoodie or not if it's dark and raining and you just drive past quickly. Where did he first spot TM? I'm still not clear about that.

BBM

IDK, but it appears that during the early part of the 911 call TM was at or near the clubhouse:

~Snipped For Specific Response~

Zimmerman:

We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. [00:25]

Zimmerman:

He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:

OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:

That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah [1:03]

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

sbm.

It IS kind of hard IMO to tell in a brief glimpse if someone is suspiciously walking about looking drugged and up to no good in a hoodie or not if it's dark and raining and you just drive past quickly. Where did he first spot TM? I'm still not clear about that.

He prejudged Trayvon...whether it be do to his clothing or his race, he made a judgement call against Travyon Martin and he didn't have that right. Whatever goes on in his head, he doesn't have that right to take this stance against an unarmed teen. As ACorey said, they didn't come to this decision lightly and she wouldn't have brought charges she didn't think she could prove beyond a reasonable doubt...It's fair to believe she has the all the pieces of the puzzle fitting together nicely...or she wouldn't have charged..and will fight the SYG issue if the defense uses this and they will for this is not a SYG issue...it appears he lost that once he continued to follow and then confront...

2nd degree murder with depraved indifference, fits right there with the actions of GZ that fateful night...the 911 call is telling for you can 'hear' he was running, out of breath and pursued Travyon...

I also believe the Special Prosecutor had GZ in custody before anyone knew this was coming down. The prosecutor gave GZ a chance to turn himself in...they gave him time to get back to the state of Florida, so they knew where he was all along...I now wonder if the former attorney's had that presser to give GZ the time needed to get back into the state..like they ran interference so that GZ could peacefully turn himself in...Whatever works, I guess...

I now what to know where he got his new attorney and how did he get him so quick?

Justice for Trayvon Martin