17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #29

[Nova]

Sorry but I don't see how this shows a head beaten against the sidewalk. Injured? Yes! If his head was banging the sidewalk, as GZ claims, there would be more of a road rash effect. Could the "scuffle" have caused GZ to hit something when he fell to the ground? Could be; IDK. However, IMHO, this photo CONTRADICTS GZ's statements.

http://www.metro.us/newyork/nationa...ody-head-wounds-after-trayvon-martin-shooting

Just a thought about the head wound shot. Could those abrasions have been made by TM's ice tea can? If the two men grappled (regardless of who started the fight), could TM have used the one item he had other than skittles as a weapon?

I wonder if the SPD collected the can? Did they do anything right that night?

 

[LolaMoon08]

Those don't appear to be concrete rug burn type of injuries IMO I think they could be finger nail gouges....

Hopefully they scraped under Trayvon's fingernails. Would be interesting to know if George's skin was underneath?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I have circled what I believe to be George's nicks.

 

[Nova]

BBM

Did the parent's reaction have anything to do with GZ using the word loss? :waitasec:

I thought they said that the apology was self serving, that Tracy Martin was very upset, but I didn't hear them complaining about him using the word loss. I admit I may have missed it though.

JMHO

My post referred to some posts a few pages back. Some of them claimed the choice of words was insulting to TM's parents. I was responding to those posters.

To my knowledge, TM's parents have said nothing on the subject. (And frankly, if they had complained, I probably would have held my tongue, since their loss is so recent.)

 

[Karmady]

BBM


Perhaps we could get one of our verified attorneys to chime in on how common these practices are before we accuse the innocent until proven guilty Mr. Zimmerman of recieving special treatment.

Not a verified attorney, so take it fwiw, but it is very common for witnesses to be permitted to testify by phone if there is a pretty good reason for them to do so. Distance and/or concern for their safety would qualify, imo. This is particularly true when the hearing is before the court and not before a jury. The concern before a jury is that there is no opportunity to evaluate their demeanor, hence their credibility. I'm thinking the judge felt he would not have benefited significantly from observing their demeanor since their testimony would be expected to be favorable to the defendant and because Judge's hold in high regard their ability to evaluate credibility without actually having seen the witness. lol Also, the Judge probably already had his mind pretty well made up and his decision, if it turned at all from what he already had in mind, was most likely to be turned by the in court testimony. I'm sure he didn't expect any family member or witness for the defense to say that GZ was a danger to the community or a flight risk.

I don't know about the suit, issue. But, again, since there is no jury, I don't think the judge would care one way or the other. He's not going to be swayed by whether the defendant is wearing street clothes or not.

If he is not a flight risk, the out of state travel permission would not be typical in most cases. But where there is a significant safety issue, I can see the judge allowing it. The judge has not yet formed an opinion in his mind that GZ is guilty, so he's not going to be punitive at he expense of the defendant's safety just because he can. Again, all jmo.

 

[Phoenixfla]

And, testing my theory out, I got extremely similar results.

Here is the control image (just the phone flash):
View attachment 21728

And here is the image with my Surefire shone into what seems to be about the same position:
View attachment 21729

If you take a look at FotoForensics, you'll see the same phenomenon in my image:

http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=459d4a3be598f801ccd546bd5fd7be87a57c6083.153339

For full disclosure, I did crop the second blown-out photo in order to focus more on my head than my ability to take photographs with my hands behind my head and I shrank both of them because of size issues. If anyone wishes for the originals, I'll be happy to PM you a link.

Awesome post and very informative.

 

[csziggy]

MO'M took this case pro bono so I think he's absolutely reveling in all the attention this case is going to get him. Did he pick GZ or did GZ pick him, that is the question!

Remember the judge that recused herself? One of the reasons was that Mark Nejame had been approached by GZ to represent him, originally in March and again when his "legal advisors" quit. Nejame did not want to take on a major case at this time in his life and gave GZ a list of attorneys, one of which was Mark O'Mara.

The reason the judge recused herself was that her husband works in Mark Nejame's firm.

No link at the moment, but it was all discussed in the articles about the recusal.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I still want to get a confirmation on the clothes they took from George that night? I want to make sure he didn't walk out of that police station with the same clothes on and they were confiscated at a later date.

 

[m00c0w]

I wonder if any of the sections of concerete in the walkway were uneven. The right-angled contusion makes me feel like his head might have been partially on grass, and partially on the space in between two sections of concrete, and one was more raised than the other. He would have just caught the corner of the slab, leaving a contusion like what is present in the photograph.

ETA: Might be in the wrong direction, thinking about it...

 

[Karmady]

is not relevant to their case. My feeling all along has been that the evidence can likely show that GZ was not engaged in a lawful activity prior to the encounter. This does not depend on not following the instructions of the operator but that lend support to the point that GZ intended to detain TM until the police arrived. There is no other reason to follow him with a gun except to prevent this a%^hole from getting away like the others, in his mind, had. I think his story will not be credible with the evidence and timeline. I think it will be shown that his story was fabricated this ruining his credibility and that it was developed to cover up his crime of both attempting to detain and then to kill TM. Once TM did not have a weapon or stolen goods on him as GZ believed he had to make up a story, hence the TM "jumped" him while he was innocently returning to his car.

They should want it anyway. Any attorney wants all of the information likely to be presented by the other side, regardless of whether they believe it is relevant. Particularly where the defense obviously intends to heavily rely on it. You would never say, nah, I don't need that, unless it was voluminous, costly and ENTIRELY irrelevant to either side. jmo

 

[Desdemona]

Just so I can be clear, isn't this dude, who we're supposed to believe in certifying the legitimacy of this picture, the same one who claimed he saw gunshot residue on TM's hoodie?

I believe so.

When he was face down?

I believe not.

After allegedly being shot from the front?

I believe this is more than merely alleged.

I replied above in color.

BBM/JMO

 

[sleonardelli]

Judge Jeanine is questioning the authenticity of GZ's blood photo.

Thanks for the update; I can't stomach Fox News especially the way they rally for GZ and against Trayvon. Fair and balanced, they are NOT! Well, that said, the rest of the MSM appears to be siding with Trayvon whose rights were not considered that fateful night.

 

[suzihawk]

I don't know.....about this apology. I'm all over the place.

On the one hand we have the legal system at work here. So GM has to be careful.
On the other hand we have Trayvon's parents saying they didn't want an apology at this point from him....

I have to say that I get frustrated with gamesmanship in the law. It is like a big chess game. While I appreciate our legal system I just wish the gamesmanship could be toned down.

I think if I were George I wouldn't have used the bail hearing to do this. It made him appear to be doing it in spite of Trayvon's parents refusal to hear an apology at this date. It upset Trayvon's parents who said it was too late for an apology. The prosecutor was really drilling on this was this part of a game to get bond? I don't know if I believe that. There are some things we just never will reconcile.

I know it doesn't play well with me that grieving parents were kinda forced into hearing it. Probably because I'm a funeral director and it takes me so much love, energy, and commitment to reach a family who has just lost a child.

IMO It is way too soon to forgive, to listen to George or feel anything but anger toward the man who took their son's life. That is just how grief works. And with young people when they die, it is the worst possible thing a family can ever have to deal with. I can tell you my experience is that they never are the same ever again. They express things in murder situations like the killer isn't going to cleanse his conscience at my expense. See what I mean. It is a huge gaping hole that needs much time to heal.

Now like it or not, GZ is the accused. Only the legal system can determine the outcome.

Trayvon is dead. If only...... but it doesn't change things.

This apology isn't going to change how Trayvon's parents feel, or how they speak out. Their son is gone. And it was just kinda hollow to me the way it appeared staged. Don't do it again George. Don't cleanse your own hurting conscience on the family of the young man you killed. Deal with it the way you have to but don't do that. It may not feel fair but it is reality.

I was watching the news last night. I live very close to Columbine yesterday being the 13th anniversary. One of the parents said he is just starting to heal, and this was the first year that he could sit with the parents of Dylan Klebold. He said it healed some but he is still bitter in some ways. 13 years later! I think a better approach would have been to get through the legal system no matter which way it went. Once that was determined then would be the time to apologize.

So as long as GZ is the accused, he needs to keep quiet I believe. Work for his defense and not do things like he did yesterday which really came off not so well. Because really what was accomplished? He was going to get bond anyway IMO. And the parents are no where near ready to hear anything form this man. What was the gain? GZ has to accept he is responsible for a death and find a way to cope with that in his way. Maybe prayer, or counseling or whatever.....during the course of the next year there will be hearings and a trial probably. But don't encroach on where the family is at this time.

I can't say with certainty what happened. I don't know. I know what I believe happened. Doesn't mean I'm correct.

grandmaj... thank you SO much for this profoundly moving post. The same words were stuck in my heart but I couldn't express them with the eloquence and empathy you just did. Thank you! :blowkiss:

 

[saguaro]

Whats wrong with that? He still has to eat. His wife needs income. Its not like he can go down to McDonalds to get a job. Besides - would you rather have donors or taxpayers pay his legal bills?

The prosecution has pretty much a blank check when it comes to prosecuting a case.

I don't see anything wrong with accepting donations at all.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I have circled what I believe to be George's nicks.

They better have gotten his phone records! I want to know who he is calling. Who thinks about calling anyone -- unless it is 911 -- after you shoot and kill someone? Wouldn't mind seeing Daddy Zimmerman's phone records for that night too -- I want to see who he called and who he may or may not know?

MOO

 

[RANCH]

I just played the tape of the 911 call many times. I happen to have a 9mm handy so ..I removed the clip from the gun and placed it back in a few times. I found the sounds to be very similar if not identical. GZ was getting prepared for the fight of his life, he had the thought of using that gun in his mind well before the fight. TM was his target IMO :maddening:

Why would someone take the magazine (not clip) out of a handgun and return it several times in a row? I can't think of a logical reason to do that. Same thing with racking the slide. Why would someone want to do that? Once? Sure, I can understand that. Twice? No reason too but possible. Three times? Now that gets a little unbelievable to me. JMO.

 

[sleonardelli]

In the bond hearing, the State investigator said it was an injury caused by trauma to the back of GZ's head, and admitted that it was consistent with GZ's claim that his head struck cement repeatedly in the fight.

http://www.wral.com/news/video/11004815/#/vid11004815
It's toward the end of Gilbreath's testimony.

He indicated the injury was caused by a "hard object" and never said "repeatedly". He simply agreed it could be concrete.

 

[Lovejac]

Those don't appear to be concrete rug burn type of injuries IMO I think they could be finger nail gouges....

That is exactly what they look like to me!

I REALLY hope that the coroner got fingernail scrapings from Trayvon.

 

[HiHater]

Whats wrong with that? He still has to eat. His wife needs income. Its not like he can go down to McDonalds to get a job. Besides - would you rather have donors or taxpayers pay his legal bills?

His wife needs income? She is welcome to go get a JOB.

GZ should have thought about his actions before he MURDERED (allegedly) an innocent child.

He can starve as far as I'm concerned...


JMO

 

[Desdemona]

And, testing my theory out, I got extremely similar results.

Here is the control image (just the phone flash):
View attachment 21728

And here is the image with my Surefire shone into what seems to be about the same position:
View attachment 21729

If you take a look at FotoForensics, you'll see the same phenomenon in my image:

http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=459d4a3be598f801ccd546bd5fd7be87a57c6083.153339

For full disclosure, I did crop the second blown-out photo in order to focus more on my head than my ability to take photographs with my hands behind my head and I shrank both of them because of size issues. If anyone wishes for the originals, I'll be happy to PM you a link.

Sorry, I think you shaved the top of your head for the second pic and covered it with white paint to make it look sharp-edged and white.

:blushing: Just kidding.

Thanks for the effort. Nice. Now don't get carried away and bang the back of your head on the sidewalk for the sake of science, okay?