17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #30

[RANCH]

I would give this anonymous source a little more credence had there been a call to police. Sounds like she should have pressed charges and made the security company pay for her injuries if it happened this way.

I wonder why prosecutor De La Rionda didn't use this incident in the bond hearing?

 

[Phoenixfla]

IMHO.. In all reality controversy, coverup went into play immediately after the fact...Prejudice was there before...JMHO

So it is your opinion that the SPD told the medical examiner "Hey, this shooter was a white hispanic, so we need the autopsy to make it look like it was self defense"?

Please dont take this as being snarky. I just am trying to understand.

I just dont think that there are that many dishonest people out there. Maybe I am an optimist.

 

[katydid23]

Do we know that the security company didn't pay?

Since it was illegal house party business they were in, it might be that everyone, the woman included, was eager to settle without involving the police.

How do we know that story is even true? ONE former co-worker makes that claim. I have never seen the woman or any other witnesses come forward to support that story.
Why automatically believe it? It could be someone with a grudge against him, and be a total lie.
I don't believe it because I think he would have been arrested if he threw a woman across the room. imo

 

[LolaMoon08]

I wonder if George was on this "clubs" payroll or if he was getting paid under the table? We know he also did "illegal" parties as a bouncer, which would definitely be under the table.

I'm assuming he was probably working at a strip club as the "illegal parties" usually involve strippers.

The club I bartended at for 11 years, the bouncers, barbacks, managers, and door guy, were the only ones on the payroll and the only people the club actually gave paychecks to. The rest of us, bartenders, waitresses, shooter girls, and dancers all had a specific thing to pay into. Like because I was the bartender, I would have to tip my barback as they only made $50.00 a shift. All their income really comes from us bartenders. There was a specific bartender who worked at a smaller bar where she would deal with all the waitresses (that was my job) and each waitress and shooter girl (6) had to pay me $25.00 a shift plus I would get tips. The dancers pay the house (club) and the DJ. Bartenders, waitresses, shooter girls, and the dancers were considered "independent contractors" and that is how I always claimed my taxes.

It worked really well -- however -- I do know that not all clubs do it this way and a lot of their staff is paid under the table? So it would be interesting to know if he was on a payroll or if there is any proof that he ever worked at a club?

It really is interesting though because I have never known a bouncer to EVER do this to a girl. They're usually really over-protective of the girls.

Who knows?

 

[LolaMoon08]

How do we know that story is even true? ONE former co-worker makes that claim. I have never seen the woman or any other witnesses come forward to support that story.
Why automatically believe it? It could be someone with a grudge against him, and be a total lie.
I don't believe it because I think he would have been arrested if he threw a woman across the room. imo

Because they were involved in "illegal" parties??

 

[katydid23]

I supsect not too too many are eager to call police when they are having an illegal house party...JMHO

I also imagine that some of the so called witnesses might be lacking credibility. ONE guy tells this story and everyone instantly believes it is all true?

 

[Phoenixfla]

I have my ideas too. . You and I are on the same path as to what happened that day.

I believe Tray was seen headed towards the store when he was initially seen by someone other than GZ. I believe "that someone" called GZ....you know since he's captain of the neighborhood watch. "That someone" told GZ about Trays 'suspicious' behavior and their concerns. GZ may have agreed to go check it out., telling his sister? that he was going to Target.......but he needed his gun for that errand? That's why I believe it never had anything to do with a trip to Target.....that's why the Z camp kept throwing out that one
detail. I think in GZ mind he was out helping a friend. "That friend" may be the one some
hear on the 911 call.."that friend" may be the one who took the pictures right after the shooting...."that friend" may be the same one who felt the need to come out in public to defend GZ...."that friend" may be the one that considered starting his own website to collect donations for GZ......who knows.

IMO, "that friend" is someone deeply invested in this case and speaking out on behalf of GZ. With good reason......if it wasn't for "that friend" GZ wouldn't be in this situation..


JMO as always




GZ.
here on 911 call and the

Where was that friend when GZ received his injuries?

 

[katydid23]

Because they were involved in "illegal" parties??

If they were involved in illegal parties than maybe their credibility is lacking too. Or their memories.

 

[Phoenixfla]

Do we know that the security company didn't pay?

Since it was illegal house party business they were in, it might be that everyone, the woman included, was eager to settle without involving the police.

I dont understand what an "illegal" house party is.

 

[LolaMoon08]

If they were involved in illegal parties than maybe their credibility is lacking too. Or their memories.

Illegal parties are when they bring the strippers to perform nude. A lot of clubs do not go all nude because then they could not serve alcohol. It's illegal. These parties are when the girls go to houses/hotels for parties (usually Bachelor Parties) and perform nude so that the men can drink or do whatever it is they do while the girls dance. It's also a lot more contact than you would get in a club.

The bouncers are paid by the girls to go there and protect them and to make sure they get their money.

ETA: The club I worked at, if they even got a whiff of you doing illegal parties -- you were fired! Most clubs don't want to be associated with that because legally ... it is prostitution.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I noticed that during one span of his redirect questioning of Investigator Gilbreath, Attorney O’Mara repeated the contention that his client had turned and was “walking towards his car” a total of SEVEN times in a matter of minutes. It’s clearly a part of the core of the defense strategy that’s now locked into the record and will be a point that will be driven to a jury.

Did it ever cross this attorney’s mind that a jury might wonder just exactly how far his client may have “followed” Trayvon before “turning back” towards his car?

Does this attorney not understand that GZ told LE that he had turned back towards his car at [07:12:00 pm] after being told “We don’t need you to do that”?

O'MARA: And then he said he went back around and went towards his car, did he not? In his statement.

GILBREATH: In his statement after he was told not to by the dispatcher.

O'MARA: Got you.

Does he not comprehend that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon FIVE MINUTES later at [07:16:41 pm] and was TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY THREE FEET from his car?

Does this this attorney not understand that George Zimmerman got out of his vehicle at [07:11:42 pm] and in his own statements to LE, says he only followed Trayvon for EIGHTEEN SECONDS?

IMO, once the jury wraps their minds around the fact that this “went back towards his car” after 18 seconds, clearly could not have happened, pictures that show up of an alleged little “boo boo” on George’s head, TWO MONTHS after the SFD EMT’s cleared him for transport in a matter of minutes, aren’t going to play a significant role in their verdict.

I think they will be able to readily see that George Zimmerman didn’t stand his ground, he CHASED it. They will see that his “ground” was an unarmed 17 year old kid who had broken no laws and was just trying to go home.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7818390&postcount=69"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #30[/ame]

 

[Donjeta]

How do we know that story is even true? ONE former co-worker makes that claim. I have never seen the woman or any other witnesses come forward to support that story.
Why automatically believe it? It could be someone with a grudge against him, and be a total lie.
I don't believe it because I think he would have been arrested if he threw a woman across the room. imo

The police wouldn't know to arrest him if they were not called. It was an illegal house party.

Suppose the story is true and you are the woman. You got drunk and out of control in an illegal house party. The bouncer threw you and you twisted your ankle.

Would you come forward in public to tell this story? This was years ago, it doesn't show you in a good light, it's a nationally notorious news story. Do you think your boss and your family would like to have your name associated with the story?

 

[Desdemona]

I would guess that LE/SA's office or AC has Trayvon's girlfriends cell phone records correct?

If its true that TM and his girl's call was disconnected at approx 7:16 PM and she said she heard someone ask Trayvon "What are you doing here?" and Trayvon ask "Why are you following me?" when the line went dead, then how is it possible that TM jumped GZ from behind while looking for an address or walking back to his truck? (Seeing that the gun shot on the 911 call was heard at approx 7:16:56?)

Please correct my times if they are off. If this is the case, then there really can be no disputing that GZ is a liar. IMO

Add this to ConcernedPapa's wonderful maps regarding distance from the truck to the location of the shooting and we have a TON of lies to contend with.

(Don't even get me started on GZ's version #3843798)

--
[1] Please compare your account of events (B&CBM) to what the GF actually said, noting the order in which TM and GZ spoke:

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T5Q39tVLIdU


----
[2] As for GZ claiming that TM "jumped him from behind," I did a Google search for ".. Martin .. Zimmerman .. jump .. jumped from behind .."

A cursory glance through the results revealed no MSM sources stating GZ has ever alleged he was jumped from behind. JMO

A sample, from the Orlando Sentinel:

Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened Feb. 26. But that night, and in later meetings, he described and re-enacted for police what he says took place.

In his version of events, Zimmerman had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words and then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager


--
[3] I did see one MSM headline that used "jumped" for dramatic effect: "Police Report: Trayvon Jumped Shooter." However, if this headline was meant to imply GZ was ambushed from behind (i.e. surprise attack from behind), that does not agree with the reporting in the article itself:

But according to police reports cited in the Sentinel, Mr. Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle after having lost Trayvon when the youth approached him from behind. The two exchanged words, Mr. Zimmerman said, and Trayvon then punched him in the nose, jumped on top of him and began banging his head on a sidewalk. Mr. Zimmerman said he began crying for help and then shot Trayvon in the chest.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/26/police-report-trayvon-jumped-watch-shooter/?page=all


--
[4] Again, I'm not finding any reliable sources to indicate that GZ has ever claimed to have been "jumped from behind" by TM. Please provide any reference links if you have them. TIA


--
[5] I will not ask for links to support your assertion that GZ has told multiple differing versions. I'm aware that prosecutor BD made an implication during the hearing about LE having confronted GZ with inconsistencies in his story, but IMO it had to do with the interpretation of "ran around" versus "circling" -- and the judge quickly shut down that line of questioning, saying he was getting into trial territory. JMO

Personally, to this point I've not yet seen any reliable information to indicate that GZ himself has given differing versions. JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

The police wouldn't know to arrest him if they were not called. It was an illegal house party.

Suppose the story is true and you are the woman. You got drunk and out of control in an illegal house party. The bouncer threw you and you twisted your ankle.

Would you come forward in public to tell this story? This was years ago, it doesn't show you in a good light, it's a nationally notorious news story. Do you think your boss and your family would like to have your name associated with the story?

Especially when she would have been charged with prostitution!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Illegal parties are when they bring the strippers to perform nude. A lot of clubs do not go all nude because then they could not serve alcohol. It's illegal. These parties are when the girls go to houses/hotels for parties (usually Bachelor Parties) and perform nude so that the men can drink or do whatever it is they do while the girls dance. It's also a lot more contact than you would get in a club.

The bouncers are paid by the girls to go there and protect them and to make sure they get their money.

ETA: The club I worked at, if they even got a whiff of you doing illegal parties -- you were fired! Most clubs don't want to be associated with that because legally ... it is prostitution.

Probably illegal drugs at these gatherings, too

 

[Phoenixfla]

Illegal parties are when they bring the strippers to perform nude. A lot of clubs do not go all nude because then they could not serve alcohol. It's illegal. These parties are when the girls go to houses/hotels for parties (usually Bachelor Parties) and perform nude so that the men can drink or do whatever it is they do while the girls dance. It's also a lot more contact than you would get in a club.

The bouncers are paid by the girls to go there and protect them and to make sure they get their money.

ETA: The club I worked at, if they even got a whiff of you doing illegal parties -- you were fired! Most clubs don't want to be associated with that because legally ... it is prostitution.

I'm still missing the part that is illegal. Are these parties at personal residences or in a commercial location?

 

[Emeralgem]

So it is your opinion that the SPD told the medical examiner "Hey, this shooter was a white hispanic, so we need the autopsy to make it look like it was self defense"?

Please dont take this as being snarky. I just am trying to understand.

I just dont think that there are that many dishonest people out there. Maybe I am an optimist.

I don't view myself as being a pessimist but for certain I do know there are many many many dishonest people who hold positions of authority in local, state as well as national government.....And please don't take this as being snarky either...JMHO

 

[Desdemona]

Thanks, yes, I was aware that it was the defense that filed for the SYG hearing, but have seen this comment several times from the prosecution and they seemed fairly certain there would be a trial. Hopefully, they are correct!

Posturing IMO. :wink:

(--And of course... hopefully indicative of preparedness as well!)

BBM

 

[Donjeta]

I dont understand what an "illegal" house party is.

I didn't know either but it was discussed in an earlier thread and apparently it may mean that somebody rents an unoccupied house without disclosing that they mean to use it for partying, distributes fliers and gets a lot of strangers to come in and it may involve underage drinking, gambling, prostitution etc.

Here's a case in GA
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/sandy-springs-cracking-down-on-illegal-house-parti/nJZht/

 

[jjenny]

George is NOT that small. Tom Cruise is smaller (at least 2 inches shorter and skinnier) than George and I bet Tom Cruise can kick some serious butt!

MOO

In the movies. When did Tom Cruise kick butt in real life?