AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14

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These last few days we have as many.. if not more GUESTS here with us.. I'm certain some are even locals...please guys/gals ttake the 60 seconds it takes to register.. so you can post what is your view...opinions. or any knowledge you all may want to add to our discussions re: Isa.. new eyes and views are always welcome and appreciated.. so, jump in...you know some of you are dying to reply to some of our posts that you either highly agree with or more likely disagree with;)

I submitted my info and am waiting for a phone call. However I am not an insider. I'm a local, and have my own theories.
 
I dont think that is the point.

For three weeks LE has said it was a 'possible abduction' and now they are saying it was an 'abduction.'

This is not accurate. The chief answered a question yesterday where he said Isabelle didn't leave the house on her own. I watched the whole thing. Please, people, watch and see what was said and how it was said.

This has been blown out of proportion with one headline and then twisted into a corkscrew on this site.
 
BBM

Simple answer-you can't.

Every missing child case is the same from what I have seen-if the parents don't talk they are hiding something. If they do talk, they are not crying enough, or too much, or their hand gestures are weird, their eye blinking is strange. Etc. etc. etc.

Apparently there needs to be a manual published-How to Act if Your Child is Missing. All parents should read and study this so they can be prepared in the event this should happen. <modsnip>

I hear that! Well said.
 
Yes :) I posted, went and got some coffee, took out the trash and came back and my post still had not gone thru yet...

Hey! How are you enjoying your first evening without transcription duty? :seeya:
 
With regard to SG's 911 call... When the operator asks, "Why do you think she was abducted?" His reply is, "I have no idea" (and then he proceeds to explain activities of waking her brothers, looking for her and finally saying window open/screen on ground). I find it strange that his first/immediate reply (I have no idea) is trying to explain WHY someone would want to take Isa. The operator is clearly looking for answers as to why (ie. the window was open!) he "thinks" she was taken... NOT "why would someone want to take her".
Just strange to me.

Maybe he thought that was the question he was asked.
It may not have been logical from him to assume that that was the question, but under the circumstances I think a wrong interpretation of the question could have easily taken place.

Please note RC when asked if Isabel had any marks or scars, she saiys other then the window I haven't seen anything else.
Same thing, considering the circumstances RC and SC were in.
 
Can anyone explain to me how one is expected to win in the court of public opinion. I mean if you dont talk, youre hiding something, if you do talk everything you say and do is analyzed to the point of absurdity. If you hug and kiss your wife you are showing too much affection, if you dont hug and kiss her youre having marriage problems, if you cry too much it has to be an act, if you dont cry enough there has to be something wrong with you and you might be a sociopath...


It seems it is a rigged and fixed game and there is no chance to win at all.


The public never fails to amuse me.

:giggle: I have been trying forever to respond to this! :banghead: lol

I dont think there is a standard....because just like everyone has two holes in their nose, every person has a different opinion.

On top of that, unless you truly know a person, there is absolutely no way you can accurately judge their personality, their tone, the way they talk, how "schooled" they are (do they speak proper grammar?) and the list goes on.

The way someone talks. Ugh....this is why I hate statement analysis. A person who is raised in a certain area of the country (or world) will NOT speak the same as another raised somewhere else. And throwing in a multi-lingual person, well that too throws all the "rules" out the window. I have many friends who speak more than one language and they always get things all messed up :giggle: I also know of some people who are ummmm (thinking of a nice way to put it) not very educated and their grammar SUCKS. I think how the hell did these people grow up in America speaking English when they cant even use the proper words in a sentence.

Then, lets thrown in....medications. Are they on something to help them cope? Are they on illegal drugs? Now lets throw in mental capacity. Are they in a state of shock? Could they have aspergers or something else similar?

My attitude and the way I speak depends on many factors. I am very silly. Very outgoing. However, if some dude tried to approach me in public, Id come off like the biggest ***** ever. If im sick, or on allergy meds or whatever....again, I can be a complete different person than my normal self.

EVERYONE is like this.

Just like forensics (as I mentioned earlier) there are TOO MANY FACTORS when it comes to how people behave.

HOWEVER, over time, I think you can begin to measure a person's behavior for consistency. You can get opinions from others who know them.

With all that said :giggle: I think there is an inherent standard response that most parents would have if their child was missing....and I cant imagine that most people would ever be calm, rational and able to carry on a even toned conversation.......I personally think listening to SCs 911 call was very hinky.....BUT, based on everything I said above....I could be wrong.

Us humans are very confusing/complicated....that's why the psych industry is big business :D
 
Hey! How are you enjoying your first evening without transcription duty? :seeya:

I blocked HLN on my TV today, I am done with their "news" shows.

Speaking of news...we need those PC's to happen every day again, lol, it gets a little nuts here when there isn't anything new...

JMO
 
I dont think it was taken out of context though. He explained what happened that morning and did say she was abducted.

Do we have a transcript to yesterday's PC?

http://www.myspace.com/video/565006329/isabel-celis-press-conference-5-14-12-audio-only/108733030

I don't want -people to read to much into this. Child protective services have been involved from the beginning of this investigation. In the course of some interviews that occurred at the end of last week some information was brought forward that we felt it was necessary to consult with CPS... to what was told to us. Based on that fact they consulted with our detectives as well as family members and a voluntary agreement was reached between CPS and the parents to restrict access, voluntarily, for Sergio to distance, get some space and distance from the older children in the Celis family. We really can't talk about other details about that at this point But we also want to emphasize that this doesn't mean that we have settled on a path in this investigation.
As we've said from the very beginning we are open to multiple paths on this investigation. We're closing the door on any possibilities. We are following up on all the leads and we have investigators and detectives, probably about 12-15 detectives that are assigned to follow external viewpoints on this investigation. The possibility of a stranger abduction or something of that like . And then we have probably 4 detectives or so that are following the possibility is there inside the family involvement. And that's what we have been saying from the beginning. That we're not closing our minds to anything about this investigation. But we knew there would be renewed interest with this information so we wanted to be able to answer questions you may have about that. Understand it will be very limited the information we'll give. Any questions at this point?
Q: Is Mr. Celis allowed to come and go as he pleases...?
A: He's always been allowed to move unrestricted. The only issue now is he's voluntarily agreed with CPS to stay away from the children at this point.
Q: How long will the restrictions be in place?
A: That will be between Mr. Celis and CPS as to how long this voluntary separation takes place.
Q: was it recommended that he be separated?
A: That's currently under the purview of CPS. We just felt it was important to share the information that we have with CPS. They came out, talked with our detectives and with the Celis family and then they entered into the agreement. If you have questions for CPS it's Tasha Peterson and we will give the number afterwards. She will be the spokesperson for CPS who may be able to answer some of the questions. I think what is important to note is the amount of work that we've put into this investigation. And to emphasize that we are still doing a lot of work externally from the family about this investigation. We've done extensive searches around the area: lakes, landfills, the surrounding area. Within 8 hours we'd contacted the 25 highest profile SO in the immediate area. We've since contacted 540 level 2 and 3 SO in city limits and 357 of those 540 RSO have been identified as having proclivities to youths and children and we've done follow up with them. We've submitted 1,600 canvas forms when our officers go out into the neighborhood and meet with people they come across. We have reenacted the hours of 11 pm and 8 am on a Friday and Saturday night. We went out and stopped traffic in the area to see if there were patterns and people that were out and about that we could talk to. And we've received over 1000 tips and processed every one of them, we're re following up on some of them. After this conference we're releasing to you the 911 tapes of when the calls came in reference to this investigation. We've had those up until the interviews we conducted at the end of last week because they were important from an investigative standpoint for us to have that information and now that we've concluded those interviews, we are free to release the transcripts to you. We understand the need to have the audio portion so we are going to release that.
Q: can't hear
A: Every day makes me a little bit more worried. But as I've said many times before I'm not going to give up hope because it's happened before, months, years, that children have been found and I hope this is one of those scenarios.
Q: You've done a very good job of telling us what you have done. What haven't you done? You have not found Isa's kidnappers. You don't know where she is, alive or dead. What's missing?
A: I think you have said what we haven't done. We haven't found Isa. We haven't found Isa's kidnapper. Not because we haven't done what we should have done . Sometimes these cases depend on one big break. We're looking for that break. We're doing everything we can think of. We have training in these types of scenarios, we've brought in experts, FBI, looked at the MP protocol. Make sure we haven't omitted anything. Open to suggestions and ideas of what we should do. I wouldn't say that we haven't done anything except solve the case and we'll work on it until we do.
Q: Were the children in danger in the presence of the father?
A: It wasn't a matter of the father being removed from the children. It was after information developed that we contacted CPS. They came out consulted with our detectives and the family and based on that they entered into a voluntary agreement with the father for him to stay away from the children at this point.
Q: can't hear
A: I'm not going to comment on that. CPS just said that....They have not taken away custody of the children and being placed with CPS, they are with Rebecca, their mother
Q: No contact at all with Sergio?
A: At this point that is the agreement.
Q: what about Rebecca?
A: They are living with Rebecca
Q: what about SC and RC can they have contact with each other?
A: There are no restrictions on that
Q: can't hear
A: No
Q: Agreement between father and CPS, is there anything unusual about doing that or is this just something he's going to agree to?
A: It's something he's going to agree to. If he were not going to agree to abide by that it would be up to CPS to take further action that they deemed warranted.
Q: a restraining order
A: that would be up to CPS...
Only if CPS asked us to step in. There are no restrictions are being put forward or asked for by us, that is under the purview of CPS.
Q: inaudible
A: No my understanding is that they were still together at that time. Right now obviously they aren't staying together at this point, but I wouldn't say they are separated. I don't have that level of knowledge on that.
Q: inaudible
A: They both were at the house that night when Isa went to bed and then what we have been told is that RC got up in the morning and went to work and the SC got up and discovered that Isa was missing.
Q: attorneys?
A: I have not been contacted by any attorneys so I don't have the answer to that.
Q: inaudible
A: I'm not aware of any other sightings that we've looked into. Obviously there have been no authentic sightings that we are aware of.
Q: inaudible
A: Yes they still have fliers and info out there, and they still have it in their systems so if they locate Isa they know to contact us.
Q: where did you get this information?
A: That came about through interviews conducted with detectives.
Q: asks if something is related to this, can't hear.
A: I don't know the answer to that I'm sorry.
Q: No suspects we're aware of, not a lot of evidence to go on here. Seems to me that whoever did this outsmarted the officials
A: I don't know if I'll agree with that that it's outsmarting it's just these things take time, they are very complex, involved. There are a lot of different leads to follow up on. We're looking it from a viewpoint of what can we prove, not what we think or what the public thinks or what the most likely aspect is, but what evidence is there that we can gather that if we take this to court what can we prove. And that's a very painstaking process that we're going to engage in. I won't say that anyone's outsmarted us. Right now we don't have the information we need to prepare our case for court, or to make an arrest, or to find Isa. And that's what frustrating.
Q: fingerprints, or dna, if you had any of those things you would be moving on it.
A: Absolutely and I wouldn't be commenting on that either.
Q: inaudible
A: I'm sorry, what are the conditions for the
Q: what happened legally for...
A: there is no legal separation at this point. This is an agreement between Sergio and CPS that he will maintain a distance. As far as what caused that, I'm not going to comment upon that at this point.
Q: This new spotlight on the parents, how's this affecting the volunteer efforts?
A: I understand what you're saying about an increased spotlight, but we have said from day one that we have not eliminated any possibility in this case. We're continuing down the same tracks that we started on and have continued this investigation on. From our purpose it's not an increased spotlight on any one direction It's further developments, it's further interviews, it's following up on the investigation. And we base our investigation on what we can do to accomplish... It's realizing as time goes on that's also going to be something that wears down on the volunteers and we hope people remain involved, remain concerned and provide information because that's what could break this case for us.
Q: looking at parents as possible suspects for whatever reason do you think it's affecting your search?
A: I think everything that happens here affects our search and tips and how people feel about this. We really can't pay much attention to that. We just have to go by the tips that we get, the investigative leads that we have to follow up on and make sure we are doing everything appropriately.
The publics perceptions and opinions and stuff, that really isn't going to play in our investigation or how we conduct it.
Q: are you still in daily contact with SC and RC.
A: I'm sure it's somewhat more strained now. We're doing interviews, we're asking very pointed questions. I'm sure even they have talked about in their conversations with you, their frustration. I understand that, I recognize that. Probably the relationship as time goes on becomes quite strained. That's quote natural in these circumstances, and so that's probably happened some here.
Q: how has that affected the investigation if at all at this point?
A: They continue to work with us and talk to us, so it's not really affected us in a way, at this point. We're still conversing with them and they're still making themselves available to us.
Q: something about Rebecca wasn't there in the morning...were the children there, the two boys when Sergio (inaudible)?
A: Yes, they were.
We're planning on Thursday
at 2? yes.

Thanks for the audio to the presser, PattyG
 
Can anyone explain to me how one is expected to win in the court of public opinion. I mean if you dont talk, youre hiding something, if you do talk everything you say and do is analyzed to the point of absurdity. If you hug and kiss your wife you are showing too much affection, if you dont hug and kiss her youre having marriage problems, if you cry too much it has to be an act, if you dont cry enough there has to be something wrong with you and you might be a sociopath...


It seems it is a rigged and fixed game and there is no chance to win at all.


The public never fails to amuse me.

But,maybe it's just not important about "winning " or "loosing ' in the court of public opinion ? If one's child is missing ?? I remember Marc Klass saying that he just didn't care about what anyone thought.He was rapid in offering to do a LTD, and very pro active in all respects.

His advice in this situation is solid : do whatever you have to do to clear yourself with LE. So they can concentrate on finding the real perp...Just some thoughts, and MOO
 
Did you hear Sergio's friend on Nancy Grace say that Sergio said he can't tell him why the boys were taken away because he was advised not to tell?
Hmmm...
 
But is 'nervous laughter' the normal response when you wake up and find your little girl missing with her bedroom window screen pried open? He was so creepy, if that makes sense? He did not seem panicky or distraught or even that concerned. He sounded very matter of fact, and overly helpful with his ready alibi info and his small talk. The nervous laughter was not the type you get from someone nervous about his girls' safety, imo. It was more about his nerves in talking with LE on the record. JMO

I dont think anyone can define what normal is during circumstances like this. I think people define 'normal' based on their own expectations of the person that they dont even know personally, and frankly I am with Paxi, there simply is no way in hades to win the court of public opinion. I cant remember one case in recent years where the 911 call wasnt torn to shreds for some reason or another. Crying too much......too stoic...didnt cry and scream which I dont think most men would do anyway. Imo, a lot of men tend to not be hysterical in situations like this. If a male makes an overly dramatic 911 call.. I get my hinky meter up.

Maybe he is known to give off a nervous chuckle when something tragic happens.

All people are different.

I really think he was trying to convince himself that this wasnt going to be that bad and LE would fine Isa and she would be back home shortly.
 
:giggle: I have been trying forever to respond to this! :banghead: lol

I dont think there is a standard....because just like everyone has two holes in their nose, every person has a different opinion.

On top of that, unless you truly know a person, there is absolutely no way you can accurately judge their personality, their tone, the way they talk, how "schooled" they are (do they speak proper grammar?) and the list goes on.

The way someone talks. Ugh....this is why I hate statement analysis. A person who is raised in a certain area of the country (or world) will NOT speak the same as another raised somewhere else. And throwing in a multi-lingual person, well that too throws all the "rules" out the window. I have many friends who speak more than one language and they always get things all messed up :giggle: I also know of some people who are ummmm (thinking of a nice way to put it) not very educated and their grammar SUCKS. I think how the hell did these people grow up in America speaking English when they cant even use the proper words in a sentence.

Then, lets thrown in....medications. Are they on something to help them cope? Are they on illegal drugs? Now lets throw in mental capacity. Are they in a state of shock? Could they have aspergers or something else similar?

My attitude and the way I speak depends on many factors. I am very silly. Very outgoing. However, if some dude tried to approach me in public, Id come off like the biggest ***** ever. If im sick, or on allergy meds or whatever....again, I can be a complete different person than my normal self.

EVERYONE is like this.

Just like forensics (as I mentioned earlier) there are TOO MANY FACTORS when it comes to how people behave.

HOWEVER, over time, I think you can begin to measure a person's behavior for consistency. You can get opinions from others who know them.

With all that said :giggle: I think there is an inherent standard response that most parents would have if their child was missing....and I cant imagine that most people would ever be calm, rational and able to carry on a even toned conversation.......I personally think listening to SCs 911 call was very hinky.....BUT, based on everything I said above....I could be wrong.

Us humans are very confusing/complicated....that's why the psych industry is big business :D
This post is full of awesome and win.
 
Fascinating.Do you have a link that discusses pedophiles being the clientele ? . Pedophiles seem to actually enjoy stalking their victims.Fantasizing about them. Planning exactly how they will take them...

So, the concept of "ordering " kids from traffickers is interesting.Would love to read more...TIA...

Russian girl adopted by pedophile testifies before Congress
http://discussion.bethany.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20428



Adopted Masha Allen Child Sex Trafficking Victim Testimony, U.S. Congress 2006
Adopted Masha Allen Child Sex Trafficking Victim Testimony, U.S. Congress 2006 - YouTube

NANCY GRACE "She was raised with nothing in an obscure Russian orphanage, abandoned by her own mother. But then, suddenly, an adoptive father comes to the rescue.

Tonight, the story of a little girl adopted through a legitimate U.S. adoption agency to an American pedophile."
http://thesearchformothermissing.blogspot.com/

in Bakersfield, hotel owner John Kruger was found guilty of five counts of lewd and lascivious acts on a child under 14, all four of his victims are his own adopted sons, 3 of whom were adopted from the Ukraine!
http://aswaterspassingby.org/blessedfearscapes/?cat=71


Video Deposition of Leslie Merriam, a Convicted Pedophile Testifying to Adoption of Emily Rose Hindle.
http://bringseanhome.org/forums/index.php?topic=3427.0
 
are we back online?

Pistachios-1.jpg
 
...I guess so...treading lightly, don't want to break it again...
 
I did watch NG but the kids were acting up-a good friend of Sergio's was on, he said that SErgio is very upset about his "boys being taken from him" Nancy was very confrontational, "WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU ASK HIM WHY THEY WERE TAKEN FROM HIM?" and the friend said he did ask him, but SG said he could not discuss it, or he was told not to. Then Nancy got more confrontational, "Why wouldn't he tell you? You're supposed to be good friends and he wouldn't tell you? Who told him he couldn't talk about it?"
I am going from memory, just watching the last half again now.
Friend is Joe Vega.
 
Mark says that it is SG's job to clear himself ASAP.
 
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