CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #1

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oops nevermind, it looks like they are just further down the page. Is this what people were talking about earlier regarding tumblr's "queue" system?

The posts are still there-- go to "archive" and when you hover over, you'll see dates. The building ones are from Feb 1st. Honestly, I think she was just exploring imagery-- she was fixed on urban structures, solitude, etc. from the looks of the images she was collecting. I think this mostly has to do with what she was seeing/experiencing in her travels, but that's just opinion/gut. There could be more significance to that, but it may mean all of her other posts carry potency, too.

As far as queuing posts-- is anyone on here familiar with how tumblr works this way? Her post activity is frequent to say the least, the dates go all the way up to the 18th, and I'm wondering how far ahead it lets you queue and how much content, etc. Unless of course, there's another kind of scenario at play-- in the sense of pure conjecture, could she have been alive up until 2/18 (either having gone completely off radar, or hiding, or nuts)? If foul play is involved, could she have been slain by someone who wanted to speed up decomposition of the body (ala Dahmer, Breaking Bad, acid, all that), and could this attempt have failed, been unsatisfactory (or overtly messy/drawing attention to itself), pressing the killer to dump the body elsewhere (water cistern) with the appearance of heightened decomposition (2 week timeframe)? Curious how bad the water conditions were-- I feel like 2 weeks is too long for the body to not affect the water conditions within the hotel sooner? PURELY conjecture, mind you, just running with it. This is also full of holes-- transporting a rotting body unseen with no traces would be extremely challenging, if not impossible.
 
http://www.independent.ie/world-new...an-found-in-la-hotel-water-tank-29088897.html

22 FEBRUARY 2013

THE autopsy of a 21-year-old Canadian student found dead in a water tank atop a historic Los Angeles hotel turned up no fatal wounds, offering no clear answers to her puzzling last days and death, coroner's officials said on Friday.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Interesting. This case is being followed by many international news outlets, including Ireland.
 
Hi there-- I did quite a bit of delving into her tumblr (confirmed hers with cross-references to facebook/Twitter, timeline of events, etc) which I will not link here out of respect for board rules, but I'll paraphrase as best I can. The trip to California seems to have been in her calendar since at least Dec 18th, if not before. It seems she had traveled a bit before that date, having gone to Toronto and Ontario, staying in at least one hostel, and speaking about making friends with staff.

On the 18th of Dec, she talks about saving up money to leave for California. Seems there was some tension with the family, caused by her depression probably and their opinions of it from what I can tell, and also possibly to her performance at Uni and taking a break from it. She speaks on Dec 21st about going on her first WWOOF trip (which google tells me is world wide opportunities on organic farms) which will take her to Santa Cruz. She talks about seeing if she can enroll in some sort of beginners comp sci programming class-- implies she's embarrassed at how little she knows about computers while younger kids seem to know so much.

She then points out her frustration that UCSC's extension/adult ed classes are actually in Santa Clara, which will be too far for her to travel from Santa Cruz, and laments that she doesn't like online courses and would prefer to be in a classroom.

So, to sum it up, sounds like she's going on a walkabout-- unsure what classes to take, dissatisfied with Uni in Canada, trying to find herself, etc and possibly start over again in California. It sounds like maybe her family was either not supportive or incredibly anxious about this, from how she describes their relationship. She also talks about people not understanding her illness when alluding to family relationships (again, paraphrasing).

I know this is a huge amount of probably needless info, but if any of you are anything like me, you may not mind being up to your necks in the minutiae of it all.

Actually, the mod who deleted my thoughts discussing my similar impressions of Elisa's social media presence said the violation came in speaking of social media accounts that WERE NOT linked to. I am assuming you are talking about the nouvelle-nouveau Tumblr or one of the accounts linked in the "Etc." section of that page? If so, these are absolutely verified to be hers in a post I made earlier today, linking to Twitter posts mentioning Elisa's case specifically and connecting her to a screenname I was able to link to that Tumblr page.

And for the record, I think sharing pertinent information posted on social media accounts is every bit as relevant to this website as any non-"minutiae" like deconstructing every second of the surveillance video. A lot of us are here for the first time because this case has moved us, and we don't want to see it go unsolved like so many similar cases do, and sharing possible insights into Elisa's life could provide pieces to the puzzle that weren't previously in place. I realize the CSI viewer in all of us wants to catch the perp in the shadow of the elevator door, but in real life a successful investigation is much more dependent on the mundane, the decidedly non-dramatic. I have major doubts that any of Elisa's family were aware of her social media posts, or if they even would have been able to recall her screen names had they been even somewhat tuned in to her online activities.

I will be the first to admit I am clueless about Tumblr...it definitely falls into the "after my time" category and I don't have a single friend who has brought it up in casual conversation. The only reason I have any familiarity with it at all is my occupational and recreational interest in evolving forms of media. I don't get the point of posting and re-posting pictures from around the web, so maybe there is something in Elisa's vast sea of Tumblr posts that another member of this thread can pick up that I can't. And it's not like I have time to parse through every blog, either. Now that we can agree we have found her social network names, perhaps more sets of eyes can unearth something meaningful.
 
As far as queuing posts-- is anyone on here familiar with how tumblr works this way? Her post activity is frequent to say the least, the dates go all the way up to the 18th, and I'm wondering how far ahead it lets you queue and how much content, etc. Unless of course, there's another kind of scenario at play-- in the sense of pure conjecture, could she have been alive up until 2/18 (either having gone completely off radar, or hiding, or nuts)?

Thanks for your response. When I first came across the tumblr, those pictures were at the very top her page leading me to believe they were among her most recent posts (2/18 per tumblr dates) so I was confused. I'm confused but that seems to normal for this case :(
 
She was discovered on Tuesday 2/19, and believed to be in the water tank for 2 weeks......that would mean she was put in the water tank on Tuesday 2/5......or about 5 days after she went missing.

I don't think they have ever said she was in there for exactly 2 weeks. It is just an estimate because that was how long she was missing.
 
Not trying to be gross or anything...

But weren't the firemen able to extract the body in one piece? If the body was in the tank for about 2 weeks... wouldn't the body be slush?
 
I've seen 15th floor listed and over but I'm only counting 13 floors PLUS the ground floor, so total of 14 unless I'm not seeing right. I do know some hotels, especially older ones, may skip the 13th floor and call it the 14th floor, but other than that I do not see 15 floors.

You are correct - the Cecil skipped (unlucky number) 13 on its numbering system, so even though there is a guest floor labelled 15th floor, there are only 14 guest floors total.

Note there appears to be a mezzanine level between the lobby and 2nd Floor. (Elevator button labeled M.) Often a mezzanine is more like a balcony level than a full floor up. Don't know in this place, though.

I hope that helps.
 
Wouldn't the dogs have hit on something up on the roof if EL had been deceased when transported up to the roof and put in the tank? I'm getting the feeling that she was put in the tank after the search.

Do we know anything about the individual who found her in there? Seems awful convenient.
 
Not trying to be gross or anything...

But weren't the firemen able to extract the body in one piece? If the body was in the tank for about 2 weeks... wouldn't the body be slush?

Not for the squeamish

AFAIK, the tissue itself would be in relatively good condition (the colder the water, the better the preservation)

From past research however, this is my understanding, possibly oversimplified ...

Typically a body stays down for a few days (number of days depends on the temperature; colder the water, the longer before it will surface). It then floats to the top (unless the water is excessively cold in which case it would stay down longer and possibly never surface if really cold). It would then float face down at the top of the water, and while in this position, the head, hands, feet are susceptible to disarticulation.

I'm not sure how consistent or not the level in those tanks would be depending on usage at various times within the hotel, but if the level of the water was going up and down, there would likely be bumping of the body against the sides of the tank. That bumping could ultimately result in / speed up disarticulation of the joints. Will have to rummage to see if i can find a timeframe within which that can occur.

I know .. clear as mud, but will try to find articles and post.

So for now, just MOO
 
Wouldn't the dogs have hit on something up on the roof if EL had been deceased when transported up to the roof and put in the tank? I'm getting the feeling that she was put in the tank after the search.

Do we know anything about the individual who found her in there? Seems awful convenient.

ITA JoCo ... whether tracking dogs or cadaver dogs, her scent should have been there earlier.
 
Watched the video too many times and would like to share my thoughts. After reading many of yours, I think we share some of the same.

I believe she first got into the elevator wanting to get off the floor after being spooked by something. In a deliberate, slightly hurried fashion she pushes all the buttons to keep her floor a secret to whoever might be out there.

Doors briefly start to close then open back up. This is unnerving and she wonders what's holding it up. She does a slow approach then darts her head out looking both ways to see if someone is there, then returns to the "safety" of the elevator. She backs up against the wall and then into the corner to hide in case someone is indeed following her. Nothing happens so she does a more cautious survey of what's out there. Believing the stalker is coming from the left, she does a little hop to stamp it out. It's at this point that the source of her anxiety reveals itself.

Her initial reaction is to escape back into the elevator, but they (I believe there are two, one on either side of the opening) instruct her to get out of the elevator. She accords and comes on out. Someone at the left touches her or gives instruction and she lowers her arms to the side, then raises and places them behind her head. With her arms in that position, the person is going through her pockets or otherwise touching her, because while she is standing straight and still the bottom of her black shorts slightly move around the 1:24 mark or so. The person finishes and she turns very flustered, almost in a daze or stunned as she goes back into the elevator looking for a way out of her predicament. Look at her expression as she comes back inside. She's exasperated now that she knows what came out of the shadows.

Now she goes back to work on the buttons. Not deliberate as before but in desperation, even pulling on the emergency button at top? They instruct her to get out of the elevator again. Now she becomes a little annoyed and starts explaining things to the person on the right, pleading her case and trying to reason with them. No good. She is told to go with the person on the left, putting her arms back up.

No drugs. No mental illness. Just a scared young lady wanting to be any place but there. The story ends with her being led away by the "creepers".

What a tragedy this is. From reading her tumblr, she seems to be such an intelligent, bright young lady. The officials must get the people who murdered her and I believe they will. I'm sure information is being withheld from the public while the investigation proceeds.
 
Ok so IF she were in the hotel for some days prior to be taken to the roof, and IF there are cameras all over it , how could that person make that journey undetected ? CA has a lot of rolling blackouts, but not this time of year, correct? Has there been any electrical disruption lately that would leave all cameras off ?
 
I don't think they have ever said she was in there for exactly 2 weeks. It is just an estimate because that was how long she was missing.

But 2 weeks wasnt how long she was missing she was missing 2 days shy of 3 weeks, (2 weeks and 5 days), a difference if 5 days is a pretty significant amount of time. You are correct in saying the 2 weeks is so far just an initial guess.

But if that guess proves close to accurate, the possibility of her have a 5 day gap from when she disappeared to when she was put in the water tank, certainly has an impact on how we interpret the possible scenarios.
 
Not trying to be gross or anything...

But weren't the firemen able to extract the body in one piece? If the body was in the tank for about 2 weeks... wouldn't the body be slush?

I seriously doubt it. It was water not a chemical.
 
Not for the squeamish

AFAIK, the tissue itself would be in relatively good condition (the colder the water, the better the preservation)

From past research however, this is my understanding, possibly oversimplified ...

Typically a body stays down for a few days (number of days depends on the temperature; colder the water, the longer before it will surface). It then floats to the top (unless the water is excessively cold in which case it would stay down longer and possibly never surface if really cold). It would then float face down at the top of the water, and while in this position, the head, hands, feet are susceptible to disarticulation.

Very interesting, the local news reported her body being found at the bottom of the tank. By your description, she couldn't have been in there for more than a few days.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti.../bc-elisa-lam-los-angelese.html?autoplay=true

And if the tumblr account of hers is correct (according to the date stamp of the last tumblr entry), then she couldn't have been in there for more than 48 hours.

Now I am very interested to know if she met up with anyone from online in her travels, especially since the police isn't commenting on her cellphone for some reason.
---------

On a separate note, I read some concerns here about a particular individual being linked to Elisa's death through youtube comments. Yes, youtube is full of trolls, but I remember when Maple Batalia (also from Vancouver) was murdered someone commented on youtube revealing the murderer's name. Fast forward a few months later, the same name I read in the YT comment is indeed the killer on the news. I don't know, any little bit helps right now since her death is such a tragic mystery.
 
ITA JoCo ... whether tracking dogs or cadaver dogs, her scent should have been there earlier.

I don't know so I am asking in hopes someone with expertise might know.

Is it possible to wipe a dead body down with a chemical that would at least temporarily mask a dead body smell.

Also what if she was only mostly dead, ( drug induced coma?) or very recently deceased when put in the tank.

Would any of these reasons be why cadaver dogs would not have gotten a wif of a dead body when on the roof

Once she was in the tank, with it possibley closed I doubt the dogs would spell her body, considering it was up high.
 
Wouldn't the dogs have hit on something up on the roof if EL had been deceased when transported up to the roof and put in the tank? I'm getting the feeling that she was put in the tank after the search.
<snip>

I'm unclear as to whether those dogs were given her scent, or were just generally searching for a person/body? Seems to me that IF dogs were given her scent, the dogs would have signaled her presence on the roof, not just inside the tank. Assuming, as you point out, that she was there before the search and not after. And that these dogs were even working with her scent. I don't know what kind of dogs were used?
 
Wouldn't the dogs have hit on something up on the roof if EL had been deceased when transported up to the roof and put in the tank? I'm getting the feeling that she was put in the tank after the search.

Do we know anything about the individual who found her in there? Seems awful convenient.

I believe that would depend on the type of dogs they were using. If they were using cadaver dogs, then yes. They may have been using tracking dogs. That's my understanding anyway.
 
Very interesting, the local news reported her body being found at the bottom of the tank. By your description, she couldn't have been in there for more than a few days.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti.../bc-elisa-lam-los-angelese.html?autoplay=true
<rsbm>

Sometimes it can be reporter interpretation.

We heard/saw that they had to cut into the bottom of the tank to remove her body, but I don't recall any other officials or MSM reporting that she was "found" there by either the maintenance man or officials. I seem to recall just a simple reference to them not being able to get to her body through the top of the tank. Whether that was because the opening was too small to allow removal, or because she was in fact at the bottom ???
 
I believe that would depend on the type of dogs they were using. If they were using cadaver dogs, then yes. They may have been using tracking dogs. That's my understanding anyway.


IF she walked up there on her own steam, tracking dogs would have followed her scent right to the tanks. Even if she was carried up there, her scent should have been somewhere on that rooftop when the searched.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
150
Guests online
2,741
Total visitors
2,891

Forum statistics

Threads
595,454
Messages
18,024,866
Members
229,652
Latest member
xobehtedistuO
Back
Top