CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #1

[Chorley8]

How did she come to be declared missing? Parents? Hotel?

(If latter I would find it very strange that a low end hotel would call police - normally just keep your stuff as collateral- they would never call the police IMO unless there was something very suspicious like lots of blood - which we can assume there was not).

Interesting that she lost her Blackberry on the 27th.

 

[skyfitsheaven]

2. Elisa was so desperate to make more friends that she took risks and went to unsafe clubs, was too friendly with strange people in the building, etc. and this possibly opened her up to being taken advantage of or drugged.

I have bipolar2 (like Elisa), and I'm guessing this is it. Hypomania does not mean that you are irrational and climb into the water tank and lose touch with reality. If she wanted to commit suicide, she could have done it with pills (bipolar folks usually have access to benzos, which you can combine with alcohol) or she could have jumped.

My gut is she wanted to escape her life and she met someone while in a hypomanic state who was also staying at the Cecil. I've met plenty of guys while hypomanic. That she was spending a ton of money earlier as reported by the bookstore owner is also very consistent with hypomania.

 

[jinjogirl]

Longtime reader, first time poster here.

Now I've probably watched the elevator video as much as everyone else and the first time I saw it I too thought Elisa was drugged or crazy. Now, I'm not so sure that's the case. The issue, as many others have said before, is context.

1. I first saw the video the day LE released it and for some reason I thought the video took place in the morning around breakfast sometime before checkout. But now I'm reading on this board (and I would quote whoever said it, but now I can't find it, so many pages!) that this video could have taken place at 2 AM. Has anyone been able to actually verify when the video took place?

2. If this video was taken at 2 AM, what is Elisa doing out of her room? Some people have thought she was taking a shower, but I don't think that's the case (I'm pretty sure someone else has talked about this too), she doesn't have a towel, shampoo, conditioner, razor, soap, nothing. And like we saw in one of the tour videos, it seems like there are plenty of showers on every floor, it doesn't seem like Elisa would need to be on a different floor to take a shower or use the bathroom.

3. What floor was Elisa staying on and what floor is shown on the elevator video? It seems like everyone's general consensus is that the elevator video takes place on the 15th/top floor, yes? And that Elisa's room was on a lower level?

4. If all of this is the case, what was Elisa doing on the top floor (which was not the floor she was staying on) at 2 in the morning? In the tumblr that everyone believes is Elisa's, the poster talks about having insomnia. The poster also knows a little bit of the history of the hotel (I believe she writes that it was built in the 20s).

5. So this bit of added context gets me thinking... if it was 2 in the morning, if Elisa couldn't sleep, maybe she was bored in her room, and decided to go exploring in the hotel. Maybe she went to the top floor (if there is a window in the hallway, does anyone know?) to get a view of the skyline. I used to live near the area and I could see downtown lit up from my apartment. It's really quite the view. Or maybe Elisa read the same sordid stories about the Cecil that we're reading now. Maybe she wanted to walk by one of the rooms where Richard Ramirez or Jack Unterweger lived. It would have been a good story to tell her friends back home.

6. With this narrative, I look at the video completely differently now. I don't think she's drugged or crazy or anything, I think she's just wandering around late at night, she gets in the elevator, hears a weird noise, maybe thinks it's a ghost (it's night and she's in a creepy hotel), and then thinks she's silly for thinking that. I do think someone in the hallway starts talking to her.

Oh man, this got kind of long. I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[Sillybilly]

I'm not convinced its a suicide either, I think it could be a homicide. But It is important to note that she supposedly suffers from bipolar depression, which would mean that the onset of the depression is on and off.

Bipolar?

Please provide a link to the source of that information. Thanks.

 

[BlazerJH]

Bipolar?

Please provide a link to the source of that information. Thanks.

It's all over her Tumblr. Don't know if it is a clinical diagnosis or if she has self-diagnosed.

 

[skyfitsheaven]

It's all over her Tumblr. Don't know if it is a clinical diagnosis or if she has self-diagnosed.

If she's using phrases like "hypomanic," she is probably diagnosed. That's not a common word unless you know the lingo or have studied psychology.. I had never heard of it until I got my own diagnosis.

 

[Sillybilly]

How did she come to be declared missing? Parents? Hotel?

(If latter I would find it very strange that a low end hotel would call police - normally just keep your stuff as collateral- they would never call the police IMO unless there was something very suspicious like lots of blood - which we can assume there was not).

Interesting that she lost her Blackberry on the 27th.

It wasn't the hotel that contacted police. Elisa's family contacted RCMP after they hadn't heard from her. RCMP contacted LAPD:

Lam’s family first contacted the RCMP about their missing daughter, and the Canadian force contacted the L.A. Police Department. While there are about 3,200 missing person cases in L.A. every year, police there handled Lam's case differently because it’s an international case.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/questi...und-dead-at-l-a-hotel-1.1163870#ixzz2LfogbcdO

There is a lot of information flooding into this thread right now where the source has not been verified ... the Blackberry info is part of it. Proceed with caution !!

 

[Sillybilly]

It's all over her Tumblr. Don't know if it is a clinical diagnosis or if she has self-diagnosed.

I asked for a source ... meaning link please.

 

[mollymae]

I believe that would depend on the type of dogs they were using. If they were using cadaver dogs, then yes. They may have been using tracking dogs. That's my understanding anyway.

"Water search dogs are often used by police in the USA to locate and recover drowned corpses. But how exactly could a dog smell a body through all that water? Well, the scent of drowned bodied is released into the water currents, which then end up being released into the air. The dogs—which can work either from the shore, from a boat, or even while swimming in the water—track this scent to its strongest point, the body itself."

Source: http://listverse.com/2013/01/17/10-unexpected-things-that-dogs-can-smell/

So maybe they have to specifically be "water search dogs"? And if the tank was closed, I wonder if there would even be enough scent released into the air?

 

[necco]

OK, admittedly I'm only through 25 pages of this thread thusfar, but it's a LOT to take in.

A few thoughts/questions about the elevator scene:
1) She seems VERY childlike.
2) Is it possible the person she was "hiding" from was in fact her own reflection?
3) She seemed like she could have been trying to figure out how her body works

Could she have been experiencing an episode of Dissociative Identity Disorder? (aka Multiple Personality Disorder, aka Split Personality)

 

[BlazerJH]

I asked for a source ... meaning link please.

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/autre

"I have typical twenty-something issues (specifically bipolar depression ) and every now and then I’ll talk about it sarcastically. "

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

"I have been hypomanic since Tuesday"

 

[x_files]

I agree this guy has some pretty strange interests, but I still feel like he's just trying to spam every video related to EL in order to raise the hit count for his videos. There's a YT user who has posted the same comments word for word on like 20 different videos. I suspect it's the same guy, but of course I can't say for sure.

Crappy dumb videos by some dude in monster makeup. He shouldn't give up his day job (if he has one!)

 

[ThinkHard]

New here, and have been devouring everything i can about this case. I do believe the tumblr listed before is hers, there is just too much of a coincidence that there is another Canadian girl who is also planning a trip to LA.

Some thoughts:

1) I would not read too much into the diagnosis of bipolar in so far that this is a pretty typical diagnosis of a young, privileged girl who was a bit different. If you search Tumblr for "bipolar" you can find many similar young girls with artsy interests.

2) I don't think she was psychotic or in the midst of an episode when she got into the elevator. I live in the Bay Area and grew up in NYC, I've seen many homeless folks freaking out in the street and she just looked drunk. She was a very small person, maybe she had had too much, or maybe she had been roofied or been experimenting with drugs. Psych meds and alcohol can lead to interesting consequences.

My personal elevator theory is that she met a hotel guest she was partying with and was hanging out in their room (on the 14th floor), things got bad and she decided to go back to her own room. They followed her and convinced her go back to their room. When she is counting and talking, it looks like she might be trying to convince them of the reasons she has to leave (she is slated to check out 2/1), so maybe she is counting those things. He convinces her and we never see her again.

There are so many unanswered questions in this case. Where is her phone? If she did lose her phone, I imagine she bought another one. A burner phone from Walgreen's costs around $50. At the very least, she must have used the Internet to upload photos from San Diego and chat with friends back home. Who was she talking to?

My gut feeling is this perp is someone who knew this hotel well (former employee or frequent visitor, maybe a john?), who befriended her, and is an experienced rapist or sex offender. Dumping someone in a water tank is not the first place many would think. She was naked, none of her clothes or glasses were found and he managed to keep her hidden for a while. I just don't think this was an accident.

Sorry for the long post as a first-timer! I'm a woman who travels alone frequently and this case really hit home. Nothing like this has ever happened to me. I'm very lucky.

If she was partying in someone else's room it seems odd she would be dressed in basketball shorts.

 

[Sillybilly]

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/autre

"I have typical twenty-something issues (specifically bipolar depression ) and every now and then I’ll talk about it sarcastically. "

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

"I have been hypomanic since Tuesday"

Not trying to be difficult here, but IIRC, social networking info was removed by a Mod yesterday because it is NOT verified as being Elisa's account.

Another member found the account does not belong to Elisa:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8905921&postcount=752"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013[/ame]

But postings on social networking sites are not considered fact; they are rumor.

From "WS Etiquette & Information":

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2279603&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Rules Etiquette & Information[/ame]

 

[Sillybilly]

i.e. the very first link you provided that you suggest belongs to Elisa also reads:

•Despite saying I hate people a lot, I actually enjoy (and require) human interaction but my inability to go outside means I’ll only contact the outside world anonymously and over the internet

Her inability to go outside seems to have cleared up a lot in her time in LA.

C'mon

 

[SCHMAE]

I showed the DH the video and gave him a brief run down of the case. He wonders if she might have been playing hide n seek with some residents/ guests . Maybe the others were under the influence and she was just playing along for the fun of it and someone told her a great place to hide was in the tank, maybe not mentioning it was full of water. FWIW !

 

[necco]

Do we know what kind of Chinese Elisa was? Could her hand gestures have been some traditional dance movements?

 

[BlazerJH]

Not trying to be difficult here, but IIRC, social networking info was removed by a Mod yesterday because it is NOT verified as being Elisa's account.

Another member found the account does not belong to Elisa:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013




From "WS Etiquette & Information":

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Rules Etiquette & Information

Someone on Twitter has confirmed that they met Elisa in person:

https://twitter.com/search?q=lambetes&src=typd

lambetes on Twitter uses the same LL name as the Formspring user linked on the Tumblr account:

http://www.formspring.me/mariniere

I am not sure if you are suggesting that the Tumblr account is just a coincidence? It seems very unlikely that 2 Chinese-Canadian 21-year olds would have the same travel schedule to the same California cities on the same dates.

 

[kait]

i.e. the very first link you provided that you suggest belongs to Elisa also reads:



Her inability to go outside seems to have cleared up a lot in her time in LA.

C'mon

For what it's worth, that same tumblr also discusses her plans for touring the US west coast here (so I don't think the above comment disproves that the tumblr belonged to Elisa):
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/tagged/caliblah

Here are some excerpts:

"Planning...for the West Coast tour...Vancouver, San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Cruz and San Francisco" (posted 1 month ago)
"I just got my flightbook'd. Vancouver: Jan 18-22, San Diego: Jan 22-27. And the rest is to be written"
"I have arrived in Laland and there is a monstrosity of a building next to the place I'm staying...it was built in 1928 hence the art deco theme." (posted 3 weeks ago)

That last quote could easily have been indicating the Cecil Hotel (i.e. an art deco building from the 1920s).

Mods, please feel free to delete the above link if it was inappropriate to post. If this was in fact Elisa's tumblr, it does help paint a picture of her mindset leading up to her disappearance and death, and I think that's important in trying to determine if this was suicide, misadventure, or murder.

 

[Stratford258]

If the tumblr is hers...

Reading the posts makes one all the more sad.

Also FWIW, she throws around other diagnoses (OCD, ADD) and she seems very well-read, so I think it may be possible that she's also self-diagnosing her bipolar disorder and depression. Only her family really knows this.

On the one hand, she talks about being bipolar (hypomania, sleeping more than a day, and then not sleeping for more than a day) and needing/wanting sleeping pills in order to control insomnia.

All three of these (bipolar disorder, insomnia, and sleeping pills/Ambien sleep walking episode) could explain why she's on the floor that's not hers and her strange behavior (IF there is no one outside of the elevator).

Of course she could also be behaving this way under the influence of her illness/insomnia/sleeping pills AND someone's outside of the elevator.

All of those states of being could put someone at increased risk of being victimized, sadly.

But the really sad part is the fact that she writes several posts about how she had frustrations with her parents who were extremely worried about her trip to Ottawa. She writes of them worrying constantly, not letting her take the bus due to the fact that a man beheaded another person on a bus in Canada several years ago, etc.

She states that she planned the trips in minute detail and just wanted her parents to trust her that she was being safe.

That said, I won't be contributing any more. This is all too sad and I don't think I can really be of any help - I just hope that LE can find the perp/reason for her death and that her family can find some comfort to get them through this terrible time.