CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

[bessie]

I drew an arrow pointing out what you're talking about SillyBilly....uploaded to photobucket so hopefully this won't blow the margins (let me know if it does!)



I couldn't see it at first cause I was looking at the tank Elisa was found in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

You're good, LittleWing. A bit small, this time. If you keep the width at about 600-650, you'll be fine.

 

[SCHMAE]

But I wonder what sort of customers are they hoping to attract from such publicity? The murderous kind? Or maybe the really adventurous kind? I know after this, there is no way I'd ever want to check into that hotel. I mean, yikes... the water, for a start. And the vibes are just too negative from what I have read so far of it. Though the rooms look okay for a budget hotel/hostel. I might be okay staying in it when I was in my late teens, early 20s, travelling. I can imagine it will still appeal to backpacking youngsters travelling in groups, say, or pairs, who can look after each other and don't mind it's troubling history as long as it's cheap. But no way am I going there now even though I still go travelling a lot with my kids and we try to go for reasonably cheaper options to save some money!

Like a haunted hotel loving customer? There are people who tour around al the time looking for the dark and ' haunted' places to stay. Who can say ? I saw an episode of ghost hunters a few years ago where they investigated a haunted restaurant up along the new england coast line somewhere. They found actual FRAUD inside the business. They had lights set up to trip and flicker and a fake ghost face in a mirror in the bathroom. The ghost hunters were so PO"d for sure but this place got mostly business because it was ' haunted'. I wonder how their business is today !

 

[gitana1]

its the bottom the lighter rectangular hole is where they cut to remove her body you can see the reflection in the water of the photographer looking through the opening at the top - interesting re scale imo

Thank you and thanks for the diagram! That helped a lot.

She wanted to ride the elevator down. You can discern that much from the video.

Like I said, enough with the suicide theories, unless there is evidence or a prior history of suicidal behavior. You then have to provide explanations for why in LA, why a water tank, her gifts for family, her plans to go to Santa Cruz, why she chose the last day in LA instead of the first day, how the lid was closed, or why the police missed an open lid, why she went on the roof naked, why she wanted to take the elevator down.

If "mental illness" is the only explanation for "why", then that's not enough.

Well, it;s not just that she was mentally ill. It's that:
1. She wrote about being so depressed she didn't want to get out of bed.
2. She was apparently taking a cocktail of pills that could cause some bizarre symptoms while on them or when suddenly withdrawing.
3. Many people see her behavior in the elevator as symptomatic of psychosis. Psychosis, including bi polar psychosis and suicide are extremely related. There is just a ton of info., research, stats on that.
4. No perp has been ID'd and no statements have been released indicating this may have been homicide.

BTW, I am personally on the fence between accident and murder.

 

[manlet]

She was found naked in the water tank according to some reports. Did LAPD find her clothes/shoes? Did she put them on the roof somewhere? Were they near the tanks? Were they back in her hotel room? Did she throw them off the roof?

 

[Chorley8]

No more photos of her? How about San Diego, Toronto? Phone not stolen/lost till the 27th. No way LE can control the almost inevitable sending of pics around. Very unusual to have only text.

So far we have apart from elevator stills: (please add if possible)

Elisa Plaid Shirt
Graduation with Mother
Second picture glasses hair swept to side, reflection or other figure behind
Georg Stromb. show hat and scarf
Elisa wearing scarf

Also: I hesitate to say this not trying interrupt the excellent sleuthing of the video here - but if you google Elisa Lam Images and get the elevator stills.... just personally I would be at a loss to know it is her for sure. Of course I never knew her. Would be great to hear from her family on this single issue whether they were certain it was her or to hear from LE how they corraborated it is her.

Also still looking for accounts or video or stills of her being taken from the building.

 

[manlet]

Saw this posted on another forum...

"*Elisa is not wearing her glasses while in the elevator (idk if she is near or farsighted)
*She gets in really close to see the elevator buttons she is pushing.
*Next she steps out of the elevator and is moving her arms around as though she is not seeing very well at all. Much like a person who has been temporarily blinded.
*My opinion is she was either Pepper Sprayed or Mace'd."

could someone of sprayed something in her eyes? causing her to seem strange on cam?

 

[skyfitsheaven]

The "A" is in lowercase in the postcard fragment. In the graffiti on the roof it looks to be in caps.



Just one little thing about depression though (although I doubt she was depressed when she died), how does any depressed person get the energy to commit suicide?

The thing about suicide and depression is that once the person decides they can;t handle the sadness and pain anymore, and decide to end their life, the depression tends to lift a bit. They suddenly seem happy. They have some energy back and then bang: I just wanted to make sure to say that in case someone thinks a very depressed person would not have the energy to commit suicide. That could be a fatal mistake.

I have bipolar2 like Elisa, that is why I am so drawn to this case, and feel like I understand her state of mind. I've been hypomanic and travelling alone, and have met different people hanging out in hotel lobbies, different restaurants, online, etc.

I have also been deeply suicidal, to the point where i've been in isolation at a hospital. I understand the point of view.

What I am trying to say is, IF she took this trip to kill herself, I don't think the method would be to jump into the water tank. She also seemed to really look forward to this trip, and was communicating with friends back home via her private Facebook.

Also, previously she described her depression as being such that she did not feel like going outside or doing anything when it got really bad. So, her baseline depressive state would NOT be to roam around a hotel. This is not a general statement on depression and suicidality, it is a statement on Elisa Lam and her state of mind via what she's presented via her blogs.

Sounds to me like Elisa suffered from atypical depression:
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atypical_depression"]Atypical depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[skyfitsheaven]

No more photos of her? How about San Diego, Toronto? Phone not stolen/lost till the 27th. No way LE can control the almost inevitable sending of pics around. Very unusual to have only text.

So far we have apart from elevator stills: (please add if possible)

Elisa Plaid Shirt
Graduation with Mother
Second picture glasses hair swept to side, reflection or other figure behind
Georg Stromb. show hat and scarf
Elisa wearing scarf

Also: I hesitate to say this not trying interrupt the excellent sleuthing of the video here - but if you google Elisa Lam Images and get the elevator stills.... just personally I would be at a loss to know it is her for sure. Of course I never knew her. Would be great to hear from her family on this single issue whether they were certain it was her or to hear from LE how they corraborated it is her.

Also still looking for accounts or video or stills of her being taken from the building.

Folks on the losangeles reddit community work near the Cecil and say they saw the police take her body out of the tank. I believe there may be a photo. I've always been confused about what they meant by identifying her "by markings."

It's been commonly reported that she posted photos from her trip on her private FB account.

 

[Shlock Homes]

I have bipolar2 like Elisa, that is why I am so drawn to this case, and feel like I understand her state of mind. I've been hypomanic and travelling alone, and have met different people hanging out in hotel lobbies, different restaurants, online, etc.

I have also been deeply suicidal, to the point where i've been in isolation at a hospital. I understand the point of view.

What I am trying to say is, IF she took this trip to kill herself, I don't think the method would be to jump into the water tank. She also seemed to really look forward to this trip, and was communicating with friends back home via her private Facebook.

Also, previously she described her depression as being such that she did not feel like going outside or doing anything when it got really bad. So, her baseline depressive state would NOT be to roam around a hotel. This is not a general statement on depression and suicidality, it is a statement on Elisa Lam and her state of mind via what she's presented via her blogs.

Sounds to me like Elisa suffered from atypical depression:
Atypical depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, living in Vancouver can be depressing, especially during the winter when it's dark and rainy most of the time. California's sunshine would have perked her up a bit, not made her suicidal.

 

[xlittlewingx]

Just saying, not pointing anyone out specifically... but I did a search for sex offenders living at 640 South Main Street, Los Angeles and found at least 5 hits. I'm sure the police would be looking at them first. But, just saying... this building has a history of drugs, prostitution and murder. There is no reason to think it would not linger there, in fact it would be naive to think it would not.

Also, the term "booger" (in reference to the graffiti) sometimes also refers to drugs like cocaine (anything taken through the nose).

 

[gitana1]

I have bipolar2 like Elisa, that is why I am so drawn to this case, and feel like I understand her state of mind. I've been hypomanic and travelling alone, and have met different people hanging out in hotel lobbies, different restaurants, online, etc.

I have also been deeply suicidal, to the point where i've been in isolation at a hospital. I understand the point of view.

What I am trying to say is, IF she took this trip to kill herself, I don't think the method would be to jump into the water tank. She also seemed to really look forward to this trip, and was communicating with friends back home via her private Facebook.

Also, previously she described her depression as being such that she did not feel like going outside or doing anything when it got really bad. So, her baseline depressive state would NOT be to roam around a hotel. This is not a general statement on depression and suicidality, it is a statement on Elisa Lam and her state of mind via what she's presented via her blogs.

Sounds to me like Elisa suffered from atypical depression:
Atypical depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, I do agree with you. I don;t get the sense that she traveled to CA to commit suicide. I just wanted to make sure people don;t think that a depressed person is incapable of committing suicide.

And, while suicide is not first on my list, since there is a high risk of suicide when a person suffers psychosis, and I firmly believe Elisa was psychotic in the video, a bizarre, unplanned suicide is within the realm of possibility to me. It's just not my first choice. I balance between accidental death and homicide. The lack of cause of death leans me toward homicide.

 

[cluciano63]

Also, living in Vancouver can be depressing, especially during the winter when it's dark and rainy most of the time. California's sunshine would have perked her up a bit, not made her suicidal.

I know I am weird, but sunshine depresses me, lol. I feel my best on gloomy days. But you are most likely correct, overall. Most people find sunshine uplifting.

 

[gitana1]

Just saying, not pointing anyone out specifically... but I did a search for sex offenders living at 640 South Main Street, Los Angeles and found at least 5 hits. I'm sure the police would be looking at them first. But, just saying... this building has a history of drugs, prostitution and murder. There is no reason to think it would not linger there, in fact it would be naive to think it would not.

Also, the term "booger" (in reference to the graffiti) sometimes also refers to drugs like cocaine (anything taken through the nose).

Yeah, I checked also. Besides the one that lives in the Cecil, there are too many to count within just a mile or two. It's very scary. There aren't any schools too nearby so it seems it is the area for concentrations of sex offenders.

 

[ceefry23]

Ok wow I have this case 100% figured out, through and through! With that being said Im sure in the end ill be 100% wrong but this theory of mine to me seems flawless. Perhaps its flawed but I think it answers a lot of my questions with reasonable answers.

Elisa Lams last moments as I see them.

1: Elisa decides that she will take up an offer to hang out with someone or multiple people on the roof. During that time the party she is with mentions being afraid of elevators or something similar and suggests they take the stairs (this explains why she isnt seen going up)

2: Whilest on the roof it becomes apparent to her either directly through contact be it verbal or physical or through intuition that these people or person shes with are bad news and that she needs to leave. She either makes a daring escape running away, or makes a coy escape ie I need to use the washroom and I dont want anyone to see.

3: SHe makes her way to the 15th or 14th floor (where we see her on video entering the elevator) At this point she feels scared, yet slightly relieved that she escaped. She presses a row of buttons (either due to lack of vision or due to having knowledge of how to flee in an elevator)

4: This whole time she has a sense of relief - but also is met by a great sense of paranoia. What if they catch me trying to leave she thinks. So she peers out of the elevator making sure shes not in danger.

5: As shes looking intently in one direction, the person or persons sneak up on her. This is where she starts acting really weird. IMO they/he is telling her that everything will be ok just come back to the roof and she wont get hurt.

6: Thats when she turns back in to the elevator shocked - Did he/they say that they might harm me? She frantically presses buttons to no avail.

7: In the interest of her safety she abides and cooperates with her attacker/attackers and goes back to the roof.

8: The attackers intent is to rape her. One person or multiple.

9: Elisa allows this to happen. She knows shes vulnerable and doesnt want to get hurt so she complies with the perp/perps and allows him/them to do this.

10: Once they are done (and I admit this isnt the most solid idea but it would work IMO) they force her into a tank. "We dont want you to follow us, get into this tank and we'll leave"

11: Elisa complies and is unable to get out of the tank. She dies in the tank without sign of struggle.

This explains why she would be naked.

Thoughts?

 

[esuma]

Also there appears to be no other graffiti on the roof.

There is other graffiti on the roof, which suggests that is it a hangout for some people that know how to go up there.

In this picture, graffiti on the tank, the box on the bottom, and the door.

 

[medsleuth]

My suicide theory would be that the feelings crept up in her while being away from her normal routine and her friends and family. Going into the water tank I would see more as a hole she slinked into while roaming the roof naked and in a manic state of mind. Or perhaps she perceived herself being chased and she went in there to hide and it turned into a death trap due to hypothermia and no way out.

I have bipolar2 like Elisa, that is why I am so drawn to this case, and feel like I understand her state of mind. I've been hypomanic and travelling alone, and have met different people hanging out in hotel lobbies, different restaurants, online, etc.

I have also been deeply suicidal, to the point where i've been in isolation at a hospital. I understand the point of view.

What I am trying to say is, IF she took this trip to kill herself, I don't think the method would be to jump into the water tank. She also seemed to really look forward to this trip, and was communicating with friends back home via her private Facebook.

Also, previously she described her depression as being such that she did not feel like going outside or doing anything when it got really bad. So, her baseline depressive state would NOT be to roam around a hotel. This is not a general statement on depression and suicidality, it is a statement on Elisa Lam and her state of mind via what she's presented via her blogs.

Sounds to me like Elisa suffered from atypical depression:
Atypical depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[hopeitcanhelp]

Ok wow I have this case 100% figured out, through and through! With that being said Im sure in the end ill be 100% wrong but this theory of mine to me seems flawless. Perhaps its flawed but I think it answers a lot of my questions with reasonable answers.

Elisa Lams last moments as I see them.

1: Elisa decides that she will take up an offer to hang out with someone or multiple people on the roof. During that time the party she is with mentions being afraid of elevators or something similar and suggests they take the stairs (this explains why she isnt seen going up)

2: Whilest on the roof it becomes apparent to her either directly through contact be it verbal or physical or through intuition that these people or person shes with are bad news and that she needs to leave. She either makes a daring escape running away, or makes a coy escape ie I need to use the washroom and I dont want anyone to see.

3: SHe makes her way to the 15th or 14th floor (where we see her on video entering the elevator) At this point she feels scared, yet slightly relieved that she escaped. She presses a row of buttons (either due to lack of vision or due to having knowledge of how to flee in an elevator)

4: This whole time she has a sense of relief - but also is met by a great sense of paranoia. What if they catch me trying to leave she thinks. So she peers out of the elevator making sure shes not in danger.

5: As shes looking intently in one direction, the person or persons sneak up on her. This is where she starts acting really weird. IMO they/he is telling her that everything will be ok just come back to the roof and she wont get hurt.

6: Thats when she turns back in to the elevator shocked - Did he/they say that they might harm me? She frantically presses buttons to no avail.

7: In the interest of her safety she abides and cooperates with her attacker/attackers and goes back to the roof.

8: The attackers intent is to rape her. One person or multiple.

9: Elisa allows this to happen. She knows shes vulnerable and doesnt want to get hurt so she complies with the perp/perps and allows him/them to do this.

10: Once they are done (and I admit this isnt the most solid idea but it would work IMO) they force her into a tank. "We dont want you to follow us, get into this tank and we'll leave"

11: Elisa complies and is unable to get out of the tank. She dies in the tank without sign of struggle.

This explains why she would be naked.

Thoughts?

I think it's a relatively good theory to some extent. I analyzed the video in details too and believe that she goes through various emotions, from casual but cautious, to fearful, to surprised, fearful for a very short moment again, then let her guard down/no longer afraid (or at least hiding it), has a chance to get back in the elevator and leave (hence not threatened to follow), doesn't manage to leave so she sort of gives up thinking she would bring about more trouble if she tried to escape, or thinking that she might be paranoid.

Notice when she goes back in the elevator, seemingly smiling and putting her hands on the walls. It looks to me like a way to say "ugh, no thanks, I'll pass, I'm tired". But then she doesn't manage to get the elevator to move.

 

[ace]

There is other graffiti on the roof, which suggests that is it a hangout for some people that know how to go up there.

In this picture, graffiti on the tank, the box on the bottom, and the door.

Here's a opinion....
1. Elisa's video antics are the result of her mental illness and current meds...
2. She gets to the roof on her own...
3. She stumbles upon drug users, (hence the graffiti on the tanks)...
4. Possible OD, they get her to go in the tank, or they put her in the tank...
5. We wait for toxicology results

Questions....
1. Do we have any guesses as to her weight and height?
2. Any photos of the water tanks without graffiti? Curious as to how fresh they are

Great sleuthing everyone!!! Keep it coming!!!

 

[Justiceforever]

She wanted to ride the elevator down. You can discern that much from the video.

Like I said, enough with the suicide theories, unless there is evidence or a prior history of suicidal behavior. You then have to provide explanations for why in LA, why a water tank, her gifts for family, her plans to go to Santa Cruz, why she chose the last day in LA instead of the first day, how the lid was closed, or why the police missed an open lid, why she went on the roof naked, why she wanted to take the elevator down.

If "mental illness" is the only explanation for "why", then that's not enough.

Admittedly I haven't read through ALL of the posts for the 2 threads @ EL...yet. Still working on it.

Can you provide a link that says that she was naked when she "went on" the roof?

If it's been posted I apoligize. I plan on reading every single post but if you could provide a link for that statement it would help. Thus far I haven't found it.

 

[manlet]

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/...cle_3642fd14-8030-11e1-9603-0019bb2963f4.html

A good article about what's been going on in the hotel between the tenants, hotel owners, and city of Los Angeles.


and read this:
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-ELI...N-IS-SEX-OFFENDER-MORE?pid=5277998#pid5277998