AK, NY Israel Keyes - Who are all of his victims???

[GGE]

RE: I have always been so fascinated by SKs, but I don't tell people because really, it IS kind of strange and morbid but I know you all get what I mean.

Yep, Claudette, guess it is best to keep some things close to the vest, huh?:notgood:
As forensic and other investigative technology advances, so do sexual predators & serial killers..

Seems that many serial killers of today are either very intelligent, idiot savant, or simply hone their skills with each innocent victim devoured. Many that I have studied, not only learn from their mistakes but from the mistakes of serial killers prior. I refer to them as emulators; a new breed of copycat/hybrids. They are forensically aware, as well as being up on the latest investigative strategies & techniques of investigators. Keyes admitted to studying others and said that he could relate to Bundy. Thought it very ironic that Keyes comitted suicide on the same date that 'The Frozen Ground'- Alaskan SK Robert Hansen movie was originally scheduled for release.

With the advent of the internet, smart phones, modes of transportation, gps, etc., in many cases behavioral and geographical profiling is rendered useless as is shown by Israel Keye's unconventional trail of terror. Keyes; a stealth predator gives new meaning to jurisdictional linkage blindness and could have rewritten the book on rules of prey.. They say that to understand the artist, you have to interpret their artwork. Israel Keys' art was very dark and very abstract..

I have always wondered if the motive for the FBI BAU changing the definition of serial killer from 3 victims to 2 in 2005 was to decrease society's fascination of them, by dramatically increasing their numbers..

LOL you totally copied and pasted your old post to Claudette and put my name on it and reposted it a page or two back. Had me fooled, thought you took the time to type up something new.

 

[digndoodle]

Hello all!

I have been following this case and wanted to share a blog with the most comprehensive information on IK I have seen:

http://israelkeyes.blogspot.com/

Not my blog, but she has really put some time and effort into it.

Just read this, one of the best I have seen....Thanks for posting

 

[digndoodle]

Could this have been the one that was determined to be an accident he was talking about?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58419&highlight=2007

NY - Edward A. Ratynski Jr., 53, South Fallsburg, 13 Dec 2007 - Fell thru ice?
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...110341/-1/NEWS


11 Jan 08

Armed with an auger, a chain saw and scuba equipment, a state police dive team yesterday continued the search for a missing Goshen native thought to have gone ice fishing just before he disappeared in December.

Edward A. Ratynski Jr., 53, was reported missing Dec. 18 from the South Fallsburg boardinghouse he had moved to recently. He was last seen on Dec. 12.

This is the person I believe that Keyes may have killed, yet was ruled an accident

 

[digndoodle]

I was trying to dig a little more on Keyes....did find this statement and was wondering if there is a way we could find out which boat he took or is it possible to obtain a list of people that were on these 2 cruises??

December 6, 2012 Update: we have been contacted by passengers who sailed out of New Orleans who want to know which cruise ship Israel cruised on. We don't know. It is our understanding that he left Alaska on February 2, 2012 for a cruise from New Orleans. The cruise ships leaving New Orleans around this time were the Voyager Of The Seas (February 4th) and the Carnival Conquest & Norwegian Spirit (both leaving on February 5th). Anyone who which ship he was on?

YES I am quoting myself here!!!...LOL..................These are the 2 ships that left from New Orleans right at the time Keys flew to meet his girlfriend and daughter on the 2 week Cruise right after he killed Samantha and below is a link posted a ways back that might be able to help with checking to see if any known missing or deaths was around the time of his cruise

http://www.cruiseshipviews.com/Cruise_Ports/Louisiana/New_Orleans.html

 

[digndoodle]

Wonder if Thurston County has looked into IK for Nancy Moyers disappearance?
http://catchwmw.com/2013/03/08/four...of-private-eyes-taking-on-case/#axzz2QHkkJB9c

Goeden shows Keyes a list of items seized presumably from his boat in Washington state, including swabs taken of possible blood stains and "a ball of unknown material."
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/artic...ael-keyes-listen-his-interviews-investigators

GGE this is where they asked him about items seized from his boat!!!! Hope this helps

 

[GGE]

This is the person I believe that Keyes may have killed, yet was ruled an accident

Have you worked out how he managed to kill the lady and her daughter at the Boca Raton mall in FL on 12/12 and then Ed Ratynski in upstate NY on 12/13? BOTH while driving a rental car that was rented in Indianapolis and returned in Indianapolis and only had 537 miles put on it?

Because I can't quite figure that out yet.

 

[GGE]

GGE this is where they asked him about items seized from his boat!!!! Hope this helps

Well, you've done it again. SPECTACULAR link, thank you. I will be busy for some time going through this. I've already read several things that are new to me and quotable on that page.

Not the least of which is:

"Keyes reveals he'd actually thought about shooting at a police officer who unknowingly interrupted him while he sat in ambush at Point Woronzof, theorizing it would have fulfilled a lifelong fantasy he attributed to his “white supremacist roots.”"

ok, fine, I'll read up on the Kehoe connection when I'm done going back thru this thread, in a day or two.

 

[GGE]

Have you worked out how he managed to kill the lady and her daughter at the Boca Raton mall in FL on 12/12 and then Ed Ratynski in upstate NY on 12/13? BOTH while driving a rental car that was rented in Indianapolis and returned in Indianapolis and only had 537 miles put on it?

Because I can't quite figure that out yet.

You and I both know that sketch is a dead ringer for IK, which means he was in all likelihood in FL on 12/12. I think if we assume that to be true, then it's pretty clear that in all likelihood Ed R. was not a victim of IK's.

 

[GGE]

Not Brittanee Drexel???

She disappeared 4/25/2009 but IK killed this mystery person between 4/1 - 10, 2009 based on all things reported so far, so that won't work (LE has indicated this person was killed before the Tupper Lake bank robbery, yet during this April trip, which is why I say that).

Which is probably a good thing, we don't want her to have had to have met up with such a twisted piece of work.

 

[GGE]

Traci Douglas was found in October 2009, in Western NY state, not far from an interstate highway or a state border. She was unidentified for a long time - never having been reported as missing:
Identified! NY - Allegheny Reservoir Cattaraugus County - (NamUs 6015), Sep'09 -Traci Douglass - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

He may have lied or left out info, certainly. But so far what IK told LE has always turned out to be disturbingly accurate. And he told LE that he kidnapped, killed, & disposed of ONE PERSONS' body in NY, and we know that was between April 1 - 10, 2009 since it was definitely during his April, 2009 trip out East, and almost certainly prior to the Tupper Lake robbery, so this victim, while probably possible in the grand scheme of unknowns, does not fit the criteria for his "NY known victim", IYKWIM. JMO

 

[GGE]

I know it may be a reach but this man was a loner and went missing Mar 2011 from MI.
His car is still missing and there are few leads on him.


MI MI - Eric Franks, 40, Buena Vista Twp, 21-Mar-2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Timeline check -

Flew from Anchorage, AK to Chicago, IL on 10/15/2010. Continued on to Boston, MA on 10/15/2010. Rented a vehicle - mileage unknown. Left Boston on 10/25/2010.

< 3/21/2011 - Eric Franks went missing from Buena Vista, MI >

Flew from Anchorage, AK to Juneau, AK on 4/23/2011. Rented a vehicle - mileage unknown. Left Juneau on 4/25/2011.

Yup, even with the updated and filled in timeline released earlier this month, he's still unaccounted for around this time, so it's certainly a possibility.

 

[GGE]

Respectfully snipped ... I've been following Eric's case for a few months now and, in my opinion, the answer to his disappearance lies with his former girlfriend and her husband.

Edited: fixed typo

*bump* ok well anyone with a suspect/strong poi should be excluded from this IK sleuthing so I think we can rule this one out after all. thanks for posting this!

 

[GGE]

"Keyes admitted responsibility for robbing several banks during this time frame [between 2001 and March 2012], two of which investigators have corroborated."

http://www.fbi.gov/anchorage/press-...he-publics-assistance-concerning-israel-keyes

Those two were in Tupper Lake, NY on 4/10/2009 and Azle, TX on 2/16/3012.

But we know there were more, and seeing as how you awesome sleuthers had already figured out he was a prime suspect for the NY and TX bank robberies before LE ever announced it, I figure you guys can do it again. I'd like to help but I don't know anything about where to find information on surveillance camera footage of bank robbery suspects, etc.

SO, perhaps you guys can get the ball rolling.

I have the FBI's original timeline plus the newly released timeline from APD both merged along with the timeline supplied on Sam Koenig's father's FB page, "Do You Know IK, Serial Killer?" all mapped out together (which should be helpful in nailing down potential places and times for bank robberies) here:

http://goo.gl/maps/BnYtc

(or is it "Have You Met"? I always get mixed up. But you guys know what I mean)

Ideas?

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by Foxfire
RE: I have always been so fascinated by SKs, but I don't tell people because really, it IS kind of strange and morbid but I know you all get what I mean.

Yep, Claudette, guess it is best to keep some things close to the vest, huh?
As forensic and other investigative technology advances, so do sexual predators & serial killers..

Seems that many serial killers of today are either very intelligent, idiot savant, or simply hone their skills with each innocent victim devoured. Many that I have studied, not only learn from their mistakes but from the mistakes of serial killers prior. I refer to them as emulators; a new breed of copycat/hybrids. They are forensically aware, as well as being up on the latest investigative strategies & techniques of investigators. Keyes admitted to studying others and said that he could relate to Bundy. Thought it very ironic that Keyes comitted suicide on the same date that 'The Frozen Ground'- Alaskan SK Robert Hansen movie was originally scheduled for release.

With the advent of the internet, smart phones, modes of transportation, gps, etc., in many cases behavioral and geographical profiling is rendered useless as is shown by Israel Keye's unconventional trail of terror. Keyes; a stealth predator gives new meaning to jurisdictional linkage blindness and could have rewritten the book on rules of prey.. They say that to understand the artist, you have to interpret their artwork. Israel Keys' art was very dark and very abstract..

I have always wondered if the motive for the FBI BAU changing the definition of serial killer from 3 victims to 2 in 2005 was to decrease society's fascination of them, by dramatically increasing their numbers..

LOL you totally copied and pasted your old post to Claudette and put my name on it and reposted it a page or two back. Had me fooled, thought you took the time to type up something new.

GGE, LOL, yes I did... Saw, no reason to type up something new.. I only follow predator/SK cases, and am working on several at one time. The above copy pasted comment/theory originated years ago while backtracking & researching Gary M. Hilton; serial killer; The forest Killer. He actually wrote the script for a movie: 'Deadly Run'; Hunting Humans, 14 years before his arrest, which can be rented on Netflix. The script was a copy paste of AK SK Robert Hansen.
GMH's final victim was Meredith Hope Emerson; Blood Mtn., GA Hiker. The victim prior was an FSU Nurse; Cheryl Dunlap(12/01/2017) who was abducted from the Apalachicola National Forest, FL., where he was emulating Ted Bundy..
GMH, has many parallels to Israel Keyes, imo, GGE..
http://cheryldunlap.bigboardlive.co...sadistic-malignant-psychopathic-serial-killer

 

[GGE]

Although Houston is about 250 miles from Glen Rose, TX, Keyes' mo was to go dark and drive hundreds of miles before doing his evil deeds.

http://www.ncmissingpersons.org/kathy-arredondo/


Kathy Arredondo
Missing From:Houston, Texas
Missing Since: 02/12/12

Timeline check -

Killed Sam Koenig in Anchorage, AK on 2/1/2012
Flew from Anchorage, AK to Houston, TX on 2/2/2012.
Rented vehicle and drove 2,847 miles.
Pre-planned 2 week cruise out of New Orleans from approx 2/3 - 2/15

< 2/12/12 - Kathy Areedondo goes missing from Houston, TX >

Robbed Azle, TX bank on 2/16/12.
Burned down home in Aledo, TX.
Left Houston on 2/17/2012.


This is a tricky one because he did fly into Houston, but he was in the middle of that cruise almost definitely when she went missing.

I'm inclined to think that he didn't kill or kidnap her because he was almost certainly on the cruise at the time, because he'd already just killed Sam and was on to the next step of his methodical process, because he flew into Houston and didn't kill where he had an electronic trail... all JMO of course. Tricky one for sure.

 

[GGE]

So did someone go missing during that specific time period?

What about this guy, Jimmy Tidwell, who went missing Feb 15 from Texas.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164560

It wasn't super close to the specified towns where Keyes was said to be, but perhaps that is why they are trying to pin down Keyes' movements during that particular timeframe.

Longshot...just a thought.

Timeline Check:

Killed Sam Koenig in Anchorage, AK on 2/1/2012
Flew from Anchorage, AK to Houston, TX on 2/2/2012.
Rented vehicle and drove 2,847 miles.
Pre-planned 2 week cruise out of New Orleans from approx 2/3 - 2/15

< 2/15/12 -Jimmy Tidwell goes missing from Mt. Enterprise, TX >

Robbed Azle, TX bank on 2/16/12.
Burned down home in Aledo, TX.
Left Houston on 2/17/2012.

So the question is, is Mt. Enterprise, TX on the way from New Orleans to Houston? If so, quite possible IMO.

 

[GGE]

Another possible victim of IK. I don't know if there is a thread here for Richard Ingram. If so, I'll post it there also.

According to this timeline, he traveled to California in 2009. Also noteworthy, he obtained a fishing license in Alaska in May 2006. Can fishing licenses be used state wide? Wonder if he had a hunting license?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...43840350&set=o.399521663428225&type=3&theater

Timeline check:

April 10, 2009 - robs bank in Tupper Lake, NY

< Richard Luther Ingram, missing since May 9, 2009 from Fort Lewis, Washington >

May 21, 2009 - gets fishing license in Alaska

Yup, unaccounted for at this time. That makes it possible, based on timeline alone.

 

[GGE]

Christine Lindsey Walters, age 23, missing from Arcata, CA, 11/14/2008

Brittanee Drexel, age 17, missing from Myrtle Beach, SC, 4/25/2009

Lindsey Baum, 10, missing from Mccleary, wa, 6/26/2009

The Jamison family, missing from Red Oak, OK, 10/17/2009

Holly Bobo, missing from Darden, TN, 4/13/2011

Bolded ones I'm almost certain I've already posted a timeline check on.

Let's take a look at the others:

Flew from Seattle, WA to Boston, MA on 11/2/2008.
Flew from Boston back to Seattle between 11/2 and 11/5/2008.
Flew from Seattle to Anchorage, AK on 11/5/2008.

< Christine Lindsey Walters, missing from Arcata, CA, 11/14/2008 >

Flew from Anchorage, AK to Honolulu, HI on 12/5/2008. No known rental vehicle. Left Honolulu 12/7/2008.

Flew from Anchorage, AK to Cancun, Mexico on 12/11/2008. Rents a vehicle - mileage unknown. Leaves Cancun on 12/25/2008.

Flew from Anchorage, AK to Burbank, CA on 2/23/2009. No known rental vehicle. Left Burbank on 2/27/09.

Flew from Anchorage, AK to Seattle, WA on 4/1/2009. Rented a vehicle and drove 637 miles.

Flew from Seattle, WA to Manchester, NH on 4/7/2009. Rented a vehicle and put 1,047 miles on it.

Checked into Handy Suites motel in Essex, VT for a 2-night stay on 4/8/2009. Buried kill kit for later use (Curriers, 2011).

Sometime before the 10th, he abducts someone from an East Coast state and murders the person, dumping the body in upstate New York.

Robbed a bank in Tupper Lake, NY on 4/10/2009.

Left Manchester, NH on 4/14/2009.

Obtained an Alaska fishing license May 21, 2009

< Lindsey Baum, missing from McCleary, WA, 6/26/2009 >

7/?/2009 - reportedly went to CA for his grandmother's 90th birthday celebration

FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Southern US from 9/11 - 10/3 2009

< The Jamison family, missing from Red Oak, OK, 10/17/2009 >

Flew from Anchorage, AK to Orlando, FL on 12/17/2009. No known rental vehicle.
Left Orlando on 12/29/2009.


okay... so. Lindsey sounds ridiculously possible to me right off the bat for whatever reason. Let me post this and re-read it to gather my thoughts, this one took quite some time to put together!

ETA: yup they're all missing during breaks in his movement, making them all possible. I realize when this list was posted it had already been cross-checked by the original FBI timeline but the more updated one did fill in more blanks which is why i'm taking the time to cross-check pretty much every suggestion in this entire thread.

 

[GGE]

You know, I have a thought.

He had kill kits in TX, WA, and WY that are still unfound. We know he killed RIGHT where his kill kits were (that was the whole point, obviously - like in Essex). We know he stayed in the same rinky dink non-chain motel when he buried the kit as well as when he went back nearly 2 years later to use it. Now I realize he didn't leave an electronic trail, like credit card use. And I realize he probably didn't make any reservation or put his real name down anyplace. But don't tiny hotels still usually make you put down your license plate number so they don't tow your vehicle, thinking it's been abandoned or whatever?

I'm sure the rental car companies have the plate number of the vehicle he rented, on the instances where they have the rental facts available.

Can't they ask hotels/motels (at least non-chain ones near nature areas, especially ones with fishing areas) to check records in at least those states to look for the plate number of his rental car?

 

[GGE]

I wonder how many cruises he took. Money appears to be his main motive. I'm thinking of all the people disappeared aboard a cruise ship especially those who were Casino goers.

This Canadian couple was on a Caribbean Cruise in May 2005. It appears IK was in Canada in late April of that same year. It says Western so I'm going to guess he was in British Columbia at some point.

http://www.internationalcruisevictims.org/LatestMemberStories/Hue_Pham_Hue_Tran.html

Timeline check:

FBI timeline puts Keyes in Washington and British Columbia from 4/20 - 4/25 2005

< 5/12/2005 - Hue Pham and Hue Tran (from Canada) go missing off a cruise ship while at sea between Barbados and Aruba (The cruise departed 5/8 and was a 7 day cruise) >

Flew from Los Angeles, CA to Belize on 10/3/2005. No known rental car.
Leaves Belize on 10/31/2005.

Do we know where it departed from? At any rate, it fits the timeline.