George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

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And I believe that when RJ heard the phone fall was when GZ "Collared" TM and tried to force him back to GZ's vehicle. They got about 70 ft, TM resisted and the resulting assault by GZ caused TM's death. I think the whole thing was caused by a wannabee cop who wasn't going to let this particular *advertiser censored**h*** get away. Well, he certainly succeeded in that.
RM told RJ that he was behind his father's fiancee's house when she heard GZ speak to him. That proves TM did not "Double back." He was forced back and tried to get away. GZ shot him.

How in the H E double hockey sticks could GZ force, drag, or whatever......TM from his father's girlfriend's house all the way back to the general area of GZ's truck? I know in order for TM to be the victim, it has to be explained how GZ could be chasing/running after TM, yet the confrontation took place where it did. But this theory doesn't wash. Maybe a spaceship swooped down and dragged them both back to the truck. That would be more believable.
 
There are alot of lessons to be learned from this tragic event. TV pretty much tells us about gang activity. The using of 'lookouts' planted on corners etc. with cell phones so they can warn other members if the "man" is coming. The lookout may even cause a diversion to lead the police or person away from the scene. Such as running. Its a sucker play. George should have stayed away because alot worse may have been going on than he expected.
Another thing thats annoying me is what they are calling the ground and pound. One hard punch to the throat may have crushed George's trachea. I don't think Trayvon was equipped with a straw to save George's life had that happened.
If this hasn't made people aware just quickly life can change I don't know what will. IMO and that mooo thing
 
To me it's obvious because if TM wanted to get away, he could have. Imo he could outrun GZ 10 times over, go anywhere, home, wherever, IF he chose to do that. He came back to confront creepy cracker. No way on Earth GZ could get hold of TM if TM was fleeing. Jmo.

I'd add that I believe the witness who said TM was on top and that he physically beat GZ. If you can do that, you could have just as easily run away.

why couldn't gz catch up w/ him?? he took off after him as soon as tm tried to run away and if you look at gz pics then, he was in very good shape and he was training mma style defense - he could have caught him imo
 
Are they discussing weather or not to let the jury see George's medical records?
 
This morning one person in the neighborhood, John Good, testified that he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman and that they were in the grass. He drew a stick-figure picture showing how later they had moved to where the grass and sidewalk met. He said that the guy in red was still on the bottom.
 
I must disagree. If Trayvon was behind his father's fiancee's house, as he told RJ, it was there that GZ caught up with him and, IMO, prevented his going inside. It was there that the reported conversation between GZ and TM took place. We know that TM did not go in the house and we know that he and RZ were 70 ft away when TM was shot. So, the mystery is how and why did they get there. IMO, RZ forced TM to accompany him. He did, after all, have a gun. I believe that at that point TM tried to escape, they tussled, and GZ shot TM. IMO of course.

If you review the map of where the fight took place and his father's residence, they are quite a few houses apart....100-yards apart? Also, Trayvon had about 4 minutes to go inside per phone call with Diamond; Diamond testified to that information. The last conversation Diamond and Trayvon had was just before confrontation....minutes later.

And to repeat, there was a reason the NW was started in that neighborhood...home invasions and break-ins.
 
I guess it makes a good story. Evil racist white man murders teen carrying skittles. Ignore all else. MSM-totally irresponsible reporting.

Also, I don't think Zimmerman just let Trayvon pound his head into cement...I am sure he used his neck muscles and shoulders to keep from receiving worse wounds. Had Trayvon continued he could have killed Zimmerman. Trayvon seemed the stronger physically NOT the weaker one. Plus the sucker punch probably threw Zimmerman off.

If Trayvon was by his father's house when he was speaking with Diamond, he could have gone in, but he chose not to, nor did Trayvon call 911. Even Diamond thought it was "just" a fight.

RJ said that TM told her he was behind his father's fiancee's house. At that point RJ said, TM told her GZ was there. He asked GZ why he was following him. GZ asked him what he was doing. Remember, this was in back of the house where TM was visiting. Had GZ not appeared, TM in all likelihood would have gone into the house. But he didn't. Why? IMO GZ prevented his doing so by forcing him to go with him toward GZ's vehicle. They got about 70 ft away, TM resisted, GZ shot him. IMO

"They always get away." Well, not this time.
 
Hello everyone, posting for the first time here. Thanks for sharing such a trove of information. I'm more interested in the logical deduction in this case, so here's my two cents.

IMO, I will assume that GZ will definitely offer a version of events most advantageous to his defense, and TM is dead, so if I were a member of the jury, unless substantiated by facts, GZ's account will be disregarded to place both sides on an equal footing.

So one male is not only 40+ lbs heavier but 12 years older than the other. He was lethally armed with a loaded pistol while the younger man was unarmed. He had been watching and following the latter, in full command of his senses, packed, comfortable about his "turf" and knowing what he was doing when he targeted TM. TM was being followed, and most likely afraid as GZ's identity, intentions, hostility, armed readiness, etc. were completely unknown, and he was a guest in this neighborhood, a stranger.

Clearly one party was far more dominant and in control of the situation, ready to act against someone he already believed to be a "punk" who might get away, trained in MMA, ready to use lethal force if necessary. The other ran away from an uncertain and possibly dangerous situation, unarmed and fearful. One predator, the other prey, it makes sense.

Following a 2-minute altercation, the weaker male died of a fatal gunshot wound at the hands of the dominant male. Based on Occam's Razor, GZ being the aggressor makes the most sense. The test of the pudding is in the tasting, etc...

The Defense is asking us to suspend logic and reason for the 2 minutes to consider an opposite scenario, that despite all of the above conditions, being younger, lighter, thinner, unarmed, more fearful, less experienced in fighting, etc., TM was suddenly able to turn the tables round and potentially deliver lethal injury to GZ. This sudden ability for all of 2 minutes is only supported by GZ's account, as none of GZ's injuries would qualify as life-threatening, and no available medical documentation supports this version of great bodily harm done to GZ.

At the end of these 2 minutes, the events once again follow the earlier logical trajectory - the prey, the younger, weaker, unarmed male is stone-cold dead.

Believing GZ's account for those 2 minutes therefore takes jumping through several hoops. Again, we must remind ourselves that GZ's account is the basis for his defense, therefore should not be given carte blanche.

IMHO, Occam's razor applies, until strong, credible, admissible evidence shows otherwise.

Great first post and welcome to our group Qwerty :seeya:

:wagon:
 
why couldn't gz catch up w/ him?? he took off after him as soon as tm tried to run away and if you look at gz pics then, he was in very good shape and he was training mma style defense - he could have caught him imo

Why couldn't Zimmerman catch up with Martin? Because Zimmerman lost sight of Martin 2 minutes before the phone call to NEN ended. Let me say that again: Zimmerman did not know where Martin went for two entire minutes. The altercation took place 210 feet from Martin's home.

Two minutes is way more than enough time to cover 250 feet (accounting for him starting closer to the road), even walking.
 
Trayvon ran...How did they meet up again...G.Z. wouldn't have been able to catch him...so obviously Trayvon came back to confront him...imo

If someone RUNS from another person who is following them, it's obvious they are trying to get away. Trayvon wanted to get away from Zimmerman and run. Why in the world would he circle back from someone he is clearly trying to get away from. Makes no sense that he circled back. GZ went in pursuit of someone he thought was up to no good, on drugs, a (*$&# punk who always get away.
 
The improper way to determine if a person is up to no good.
Make observation
Grab your gun and follow the suspicious person
Dial 911 and report the person and ignore their directions
Continue to follow the person until an incident breaks out
When it looks like your going to get your can beat, shoot and kill the person
Done... no need for a police report

May I add? "Continue to follow the person until they are almost home--as close as the back of the house."
Force the person to come with you, possibly at gunpoint.
When he resists, shoot him.
 
If someone RUNS from another person who is following them, it's obvious they are trying to get away. Trayvon wanted to get away from Zimmerman and run. Why in the world would he circle back from someone he is clearly trying to get away from. Makes no sense that he circled back. GZ went in pursuit of someone he thought was up to no good, on drugs, a (*$&# punk who always get away.
It does make sense if he was going to confront Zimmerman. Seems like a pretty good way to surprise someone and teach them a lesson, to me.
 
Not a credible source. If TM had in fact assaulted a bus driver I have to believe there would be an incident report that could be found somewhere besides an internet gossip site.

His records were sealed. Did you even see where the information was obtained, and who obtained it? The Daily Mail just reported on it.
 
There are alot of lessons to be learned from this tragic event. TV pretty much tells us about gang activity. The using of 'lookouts' planted on corners etc. with cell phones so they can warn other members if the "man" is coming. The lookout may even cause a diversion to lead the police or person away from the scene. Such as running. Its a sucker play. George should have stayed away because alot worse may have been going on than he expected.
Another thing thats annoying me is what they are calling the ground and pound. One hard punch to the throat may have crushed George's trachea. I don't think Trayvon was equipped with a straw to save George's life had that happened.
If this hasn't made people aware just quickly life can change I don't know what will. IMO and that mooo thing

So many lessons, indeed. The thing that's annoying me is that a 17 year old who was walking home from 7/11 minding his own biz was shot and killed.
 
It's not the source I quibble with, it's the content, lol.

TM "might" have attacked a bus driver? Based on, what, a tweet asking him if he had? The source was just a link to unfounded speculation.
Sure. You asked for evidence of what was clearly stated as my opinion. I provided evidence.
 
It does make sense if he was going to confront Zimmerman. Seems like a pretty good way to surprise someone and teach them a lesson, to me.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Trayvon wanted to fight or attack Zimmerman. He RAN from GZ! People who run are in fear!

All evidence points to GZ following and pursuing Trayvon.
 
Why couldn't Zimmerman catch up with Martin? Because Zimmerman lost sight of Martin 2 minutes before the phone call to NEN ended. Let me say that again: Zimmerman did not know where Martin went for two entire minutes. The altercation took place 210 feet from Martin's home.

Two minutes is way more than enough time to cover 250 feet (accounting for him starting closer to the road), even walking.

According to Zimmerman, <modsnip>.
 
KNOCK IT OFF NOW!

Stop the petty "one upmanship and "right fighting" right this minute. Not another word. Drop it NOW.

Discuss the testimony in a civil, respectful manner or I will lock this thread in a heartbeat.

All clear now? It is up to you guys. Please be aware that I don't care a whit if it is open or not.
 
If someone RUNS from another person who is following them, it's obvious they are trying to get away. Trayvon wanted to get away from Zimmerman and run. Why in the world would he circle back from someone he is clearly trying to get away from. Makes no sense that he circled back. GZ went in pursuit of someone he thought was up to no good, on drugs, a (*$&# punk who always get away.

IMO he didn't circle back. RJ said that TM told her he was almost home, in back of the house where his father's fiancee lived and where he was visiting. He then told RJ that the ****** was back. Then RJ heard TM ask GZ why he was following him. Then she heard GZ ask TM what he was doing. All of this took place in back of the house where he was staying, so he was almost home and did not double back. It was GZ who caught up with him there. Somehow they ended up 70ft away and TM was dead. I believe GZ forced him to come with him, maybe at gunpoint, and then after going that far, TM tried to get away, there was a tussle, and GZ shot TM dead. IMO The key to it is that he told RJ he was in back of the house and then she heard GZ speak.
 
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