GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

[LadyBird1]

Another thought has been rolling around in my head:
It's to do with why Lisa was not moving when she lifted up over the balcony.
Apart from totally terrified of the monster that held her life in his arms.
He might have threatened her with tipping her over the balcony if she didn't submit.
"This is what I will do if you don't behave yourself, *****."
"No, please Simon, please...... don't do that..... I will be good, I promise, just don't let me go"
Considering he was in a fit of rage at the time... he appeared completely out of control.
Evidence of his mental state at the time was captured on camera in the lift.
Although the words are absent, I think they are something like:
"F*&k!ng *****, I ********!ng TOLD her. I made it perfectly clear what I would do if she kept up her caper. *****! Look what she made me do"
The body language says it all, IMO.

 

[JudgeJudy]

Ladybird - Yes, It does look like he's 'going through the motions' in the lift. However, I'm more inclined to think she was somehow disabled within the 69 seconds of "lost CCTV footage" - I am hoping for her sake anyway. IMO.

 

[LadyBird1]

Ladybird - Yes, It does look like he's 'going through the motions' in the lift. However, I'm more inclined to think she was somehow disabled within the 69 seconds of "lost CCTV footage" - I am hoping for her sake anyway. IMO.

Yes JudgeJudy, That's what I thought too, until I heard Joshua Rathmell speak of the screaming that drew his attention upwards to the scene. With a rage such as SG was exhibiting though, it wouldn't be difficult to snap her neck.
Sounded like "deranged" screams of "a junkie on an ice bender".

And yet they say "No evidence Simon Gittany murdered Lisa Harnum, barrister tells court"
?????
PS I see in some MSM reports the word witnesses plural used. I hope that is true and correct.

 

[montycooper]

Sadly, I think she might have been concious because of the account the neighbour and

witnesses gave. I read that she heard two screams; one coming from inside and

the last one, she said, sounded like it came from outside. Also a labourer working nearby

heard what he thought was a bird squawk and then a thud, he thought this was a car

accident. I think most shocking was the witness who saw him 'fist pump' after 'unloading

the black object'.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-git...sa-harnums--balcony-death-20131104-2wvsi.html

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/10/30/16/02/workers-thought-screams-were-a-bird-court

 

[montycooper]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-fianc-es-mouth-hurled-Sydney-balcony.html

Might have already been posted - 'fist pump'.

 

[bajas]

Thanks, LadyBird1; your explanation of why Lisa was not moving when lifted over the balcony makes perfect sense to me. I have been wondering why she was not moving and unloaded like garbage and could only think she must have been unconscious, which conflicted with witness statements that they heard screams. But your post has cleared that up for me....and it explains the behavior of the accused in the lift too....of course he would be blaming her for his actions! Thanks again.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks, LadyBird1; your explanation of why Lisa was not moving when lifted over the balcony makes perfect sense to me. I have been wondering why she was not moving and unloaded like garbage and could only think she must have been unconscious, which conflicted with witness statements that they heard screams. But your post has cleared that up for me....and it explains the behavior of the accused in the lift too....of course he would be blaming her for his actions! Thanks again.

OMG ... this sounds so accurate it is chilling ... with him screaming at her "stop struggling, don't scream again ... do you want me to offload you? .. do you? .. do you?"

Sorry .... I am a very visual person, and this conjures up a nightmare vision in my mind. One that would freeze Lisa instantly. :cry:

And then in the lift ... "why did you make me do this .. why?" as he sneaks several peeks in the mirror to see if he still has rage on his face.

 

[JudgeJudy]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-gittany-denies-murdering-lisa-harnum-20131105-2wydm.html

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/note-found-after-lisa-harnum-fell-to-her-death-20131031-2wlv1.html

I wonder if the cleaner employed by SG once a week to clean the balcony was questioned. Given that apparently SG only installed the cameras to 'keep an eye on the cleaner and tradesmen'. It begs a couple of questions : If your partner is not permitted to venture outside of the premises, why would you need surveillance to watch someone cleaning the balcony - as the partner would be there, wouldn't they ? If you were so untrusting of a cleaner or tradesman in the first place that you felt you had to surveil them, why would you entrust them with a key to your premises and not your partner? I also wonder if the cleaner ever saw the torn up note that LH had written, which was found in her pocket.

 

[Brightbird]

Another thought has been rolling around in my head:
It's to do with why Lisa was not moving when she lifted up over the balcony.
Apart from totally terrified of the monster that held her life in his arms.
He might have threatened her with tipping her over the balcony if she didn't submit.
"This is what I will do if you don't behave yourself, *****."
"No, please Simon, please...... don't do that..... I will be good, I promise, just don't let me go"
Considering he was in a fit of rage at the time... he appeared completely out of control.
Evidence of his mental state at the time was captured on camera in the lift.
Although the words are absent, I think they are something like:
"F*&k!ng *****, I ********!ng TOLD her. I made it perfectly clear what I would do if she kept up her caper. *****! Look what she made me do"The body language says it all, IMO.

This was my first impression of his behaviour in the lift too. That he was raging, thinking "she made me do it, if she only behaved I wouldn't have done that". But I think he's guilty so that definitely influences me. From another perspective, if she had fallen/jumped, I can also see that his behaviour is still anger ridden, but more along of the lines "I can't believe she did that". I doubt most people in that situation would have comprehended the outcome within minutes. The behaviour is interesting within the whole sequence of events that morning, but to me it fits with both the defence and Crown cases. There is no doubt he was in a rage that morning.

I agree that he most likely threatened her before 'unloading' her and Lisa was in a state of shock and helplessness. Just imagine looking beneath you from that height. You wouldn't struggle much. Poor Lisa

 

[LadyBird1]

This was my first impression of his behaviour in the lift too. That he was raging, thinking "she made me do it, if she only behaved I wouldn't have done that". But I think he's guilty so that definitely influences me. From another perspective, if she had fallen/jumped, I can also see that his behaviour is still anger ridden, but more along of the lines "I can't believe she did that". I doubt most people in that situation would have comprehended the outcome within minutes. The behaviour is interesting within the whole sequence of events that morning, but to me it fits with both the defence and Crown cases. There is no doubt he was in a rage that morning.

I agree that he most likely threatened her before 'unloading' her and Lisa was in a state of shock and helplessness. Just imagine looking beneath you from that height. You wouldn't struggle much. Poor Lisa

It's a long way to tip a Lisa. It's a long way to go.
Please don't drop me Simon, I'm a good girl, That you know.

All thoughts that 'go rolling around in my head" are accompanied by video type motion pictures. Sometimes with song. Apologies if these descriptions are too graphic.
I think ICU Nurse will verify that even with a broken neck, consciousness would still be in accord until she was knocked out with an appropriate head bump.
There isn't really a soft way of saying that she was well aware throughout.
And yes, I am seduced by the evidence such is available via MSM, together with my limited but real knowledge of how Narcissists operate.
Another way to put that: I can see clearly now the evidence is shown.

And yes, it makes me angry to see a softly softly, approach to these lying conniving seducers who care for none other but themselves.
All IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

I saw footage the other night of a young guy who had killed his girlfriend. He was being interrogated by police 'I didn't do anything, I just dropped her off after an argument'. Police kept at him and finally he took them to where he had dumped her. He had broken her neck, and guess what? She was still alive (barely)! And could groan, but not much more. Thankfully, this girl made a full recovery after a very long convalescence.

My point being ... Lisa could have had a broken neck, and still been alive, and could have still made some sounds as she was falling into awnings. So, so sad and horrible ....

 

[bajas]

I'm just so grateful that SG didn't think to turn off the camera that filmed him physically restraining Lisa just 69 seconds before she died. Where would the prosecution be without that footage....and the irony that SG supplied it himself, albeit unwittingly....Miracles do happen! I also think the fact that he was filmed returning to the flat to put on a t shirt points to his guilt. If Lisa had genuinely climbed over the balcony herself and then fallen, he would have been in such shock and so desperate to get to her, his appearance wouldn't have crossed his mind. Instead, he returned and wasted time to put on a t shirt which to my mind suggests he was concerned that someone might have seen him on the balcony without a shirt on and when he was at her side on the pavement with a shirt on, it would not appear that he was the same person on the balcony. Just a thought and all IMOO.

 

[LadyBird1]

I'm just so grateful that SG didn't think to turn off the camera that filmed him physically restraining Lisa just 69 seconds before she died. Where would the prosecution be without that footage....and the irony that SG supplied it himself, albeit unwittingly....Miracles do happen! I also think the fact that he was filmed returning to the flat to put on a t shirt points to his guilt. If Lisa had genuinely climbed over the balcony herself and then fallen, he would have been in such shock and so desperate to get to her, his appearance wouldn't have crossed his mind. Instead, he returned and wasted time to put on a t shirt which to my mind suggests he was concerned that someone might have seen him on the balcony without a shirt on and when he was at her side on the pavement with a shirt on, it would not appear that he was the same person on the balcony. Just a thought and all IMOO.

Agree with you every bit. IMO This is his most damming evidence.
If innocent, WHY return to put on a t shirt.
IMO He wilfully, deliberately dumped her over the balcony.
He was enraged.
He fist pumped.
He wanted to see this thing through IMO
69 seconds after Lisa was unloaded, Gittany left the unit without his shirt on.
He headed to the lift about 14 seconds after that.
He then returned to the unit for 33 seconds before leaving with a T-shirt on.
He was also "neatly arranging" the bottom of his t shirt before exiting the lift.
Did he suddenly realize he needed to put on his public face image? Needed to do a fast change from enraged to sombre.
He appears contrived IMO.
In fact every thing about his public image appears CONTRIVED, including his court appearances.
I feel that he momentarily forgot about the cameras due to his deranged mental state at the time. Afterwards, he thought it necessary to remove some of its content.
And yes, bajas, he needed a quick cover up in case he was recognized as the shirtless man from the balcony scene.

 

[LadyBird1]

When MSM reports that the three socialized together, referring to Lisa, SG, and RL, that in my opinion doesn't mean that everything was all cosy between them all.
Something doesn't sit right in my mind with this "arrangement". Including the timing when SG supposedly took up with RL.
Reminds me of another trio, Allison BC, GBC, and TMcH.
And the fellow in the middle thinking he God's gift to all, including as many others as he can slot in.
I have the feeling the fellow in the middle was secretly enjoying the angst he was causing. Feeding off it so to speak. It also gave him Brag rights.

 

[they'll get you]

I'm just so grateful that SG didn't think to turn off the camera that filmed him physically restraining Lisa just 69 seconds before she died. Where would the prosecution be without that footage....and the irony that SG supplied it himself, albeit unwittingly....Miracles do happen! I also think the fact that he was filmed returning to the flat to put on a t shirt points to his guilt. If Lisa had genuinely climbed over the balcony herself and then fallen, he would have been in such shock and so desperate to get to her, his appearance wouldn't have crossed his mind. Instead, he returned and wasted time to put on a t shirt which to my mind suggests he was concerned that someone might have seen him on the balcony without a shirt on and when he was at her side on the pavement with a shirt on, it would not appear that he was the same person on the balcony. Just a thought and all IMOO.

I love it! The spy spied himself! Karma happens.

I've never been involved in something like this BUT I've seen road accidents where the first thing I do is grab my phone to take with me to the injured to call 000 if needed. It was my instant reaction & no thought required! Wouldn't that be the first thing rather than get a shirt? Either way, if he knew Lisa would have died or was in a critical condition, wouldn't you be calling 000 on the way down in the lift? Who knows under the circumstances.

 

[JudgeJudy]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-gittany-has-bail-revoked-20131112-2xdjw.html

Someone help me out to understand this......But I am gobsmacked that SG apparently asked his brother to remove the hard drive from the ceiling, whilst he was in jail (August 2011 ?) and as recent as just last week (Nov 2013), SG testifies in court that he has "no idea" where the hard drive is now. Then the very next day, the IT Consultant (who has done previous work for the G family), brings it into court !

So, for 26 months, the mystery hard drive is just simply 'missing' ? That is a crucial piece of evidence that was withheld by either SG's brother or the IT Consultant for 26 months. If SG didn't trust the police with it, and he has nothing to hide, why didn't he point his legal team in the direction of it's whereabouts ? Also, how does anyone know that the hard drive (finally) presented in court just last week, was actually 'the' hard drive removed from the ceiling anyway ? It could've been anyone's hard drive.

I want to know if, whoever had the hard drive in their possession for 26 months, has committed a crime. Accessory after the fact ? Pervert the course of justice ?

I also would be interested in knowing if or how much the IT Consultant was paid for 'looking' at the hard drive.

 

[bearbear]

after footage showed sg leaving the lift eye witnesses saw him standing back observing the body he then went forward and started poking lisas face and head and the attending witness/doctor had to tell him to stop
was he trying to account for the bruises lisa may have sustained pre death, to quieten her?
would the autopsy be able to determine if lisa was conscious or dead before the fall, it all happened within minutes of her being dragged back into the apartment so not sure if they could tell when the injuries were caused or how, apart from the fall?
the deranged screams were probably him raging out before he dropped her!

 

[Fuskier]

I love it! The spy spied himself! Karma happens.

I've never been involved in something like this BUT I've seen road accidents where the first thing I do is grab my phone to take with me to the injured to call 000 if needed. It was my instant reaction & no thought required! Wouldn't that be the first thing rather than get a shirt? Either way, if he knew Lisa would have died or was in a critical condition, wouldn't you be calling 000 on the way down in the lift? Who knows under the circumstances.

IMO this is what most people would most likely do, out of concern for their loved one, before they head for the lift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeJudy View Post
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-gitt...112-2xdjw.html

Someone help me out to understand this......But I am gobsmacked that SG apparently asked his brother to remove the hard drive from the ceiling, whilst he was in jail (August 2011 ?) and as recent as just last week (Nov 2013), SG testifies in court that he has "no idea" where the hard drive is now. Then the very next day, the IT Consultant (who has done previous work for the G family), brings it into court ! ... I want to know if, whoever had the hard drive in their possession for 26 months, has committed a crime. Accessory after the fact ? Pervert the course of justice ?
I also would be interested in knowing if or how much the IT Consultant was paid for 'looking' at the hard drive.

JJ I recall an earlier post informing that RL's older brother and SG are best friends. Her older brother worked in IT.

 

[Fuskier]

From my perspective (based on seeing many multi-traumas - including a woman who was attacked with a samurai sword before jumping off a second storey balcony to escape the attack) it's nearly impossible to seperate all the injuries from the fall to those that preceded it.

The obvious ones in that case could be extracted as defensive wounds to her arms due to the different mechanism of injury (the blade) but fractures that individual incurred would not be able to be definitively proven as being caused pre, or resulting from, the fall.

I guess if there had been a different gap of time between lisa being last seen alive (ie the video) and being found below it may be possible to show that injuries occurred, or even death occurred earlier. But 69 seconds isn't a great deal of time for differentiation, and so the theory that her neck was snapped as a result of the headlock and subsequently (with a theory of a C1/C2 fracture and cord severing) was deceased before she went over would be impossible to differentiate with the tight timeframe, and could be attributed to the fall.

Equally, coagulopathy and the rigior/livor mortis processes wouldn't be identifiable. Yes, typically bleeding would be minimal if there was no longer any cardiac output, but the sheer force of the impact so close in the timeline - well, it would be pretty much impossible to differentiate still.

I'm sorry for being so gruesome here. Edit me if you need to Marly!

I just think that the possibility of her having died earlier will always remain a theory without other video evidence emerging - as the time window is too small for all our CSI science to play a part.

Bearbear, this quote might help answer some questions. Hope it is helpful.

 

[JudgeJudy]

Hi Fuskier - Yes, the IT Consultant has had dealings with the G family previously, as was stated in court, which doesn't really make him an impartial witness. But whether it be a brother, sister, mother , father, neighbour, butcher, baker, candlestick maker, how can anyone argue that for the 26 months that they were in possession of a hard drive that was removed from the premises where a person fell to her death and the person who resided there has subsequently been charged with her murder, they weren't aware that it might form part of the evidence presented at the murder trial ?

:dunno: