GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

[LadyBird1]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-gittany-has-bail-revoked-20131112-2xdjw.html

Someone help me out to understand this......But I am gobsmacked that SG apparently asked his brother to remove the hard drive from the ceiling, whilst he was in jail (August 2011 ?) and as recent as just last week (Nov 2013), SG testifies in court that he has "no idea" where the hard drive is now. Then the very next day, the IT Consultant (who has done previous work for the G family), brings it into court !

So, for 26 months, the mystery hard drive is just simply 'missing' ? That is a crucial piece of evidence that was withheld by either SG's brother or the IT Consultant for 26 months. If SG didn't trust the police with it, and he has nothing to hide, why didn't he point his legal team in the direction of it's whereabouts ? Also, how does anyone know that the hard drive (finally) presented in court just last week, was actually 'the' hard drive removed from the ceiling anyway ? It could've been anyone's hard drive.

I want to know if, whoever had the hard drive in their possession for 26 months, has committed a crime. Accessory after the fact ? Pervert the course of justice ?

I also would be interested in knowing if or how much the IT Consultant was paid for 'looking' at the hard drive.

Judge Judy, Methinks you ask an impossible request. The only one can help you understand is SG himself. And thus far, it appears he is a proven liar.

Some excerpts from SMH 7 November 2013

"Because the man accused of her murder arranged to have it removed before police could view it." (Referring to external hard drive.)

Simon Gittany was in jail when he asked his brother to remove an external hard drive from the ceiling of a Sydney unit, his murder trial heard on Thursday.

He told the NSW Supreme Court he asked his brother to remove the hard drive because he did not trust the police.

“Part of me didn't believe that the police were telling the truth,” Mr Gittany said.

The 40-year-old said he wanted to check whether any footage was “deleted by the police”.

Senior Crown Prosecutor Mark Tedeschi, QC, established the accused believed there was a possibility something may have been recorded.

“If you thought that there was any image on that hard drive … that would completely exonerate you in relation to the death of Lisa Harnum, why didn't you notify the police?” Mr Tedeschi asked.

“I didn't think about it,” Mr Gittany replied.

The accused told the court he could not remember when he asked his brother to remove it. He said a man called Craig, who owned his own IT business, inspected the hard drive and found nothing on it.

Mr Tedeschi: “What happened to hard drive after that?”

Mr Gittany: “Not too sure what they did with it after that.”

Mr Tedeschi: “Do you know where it is now?”

Mr Gittany: “No, I don't.”

Mr Tedeschi: “You wanted to make sure that there was nothing there that might incriminate you.”

Mr Gittany: “Absolutely not.”

This is the same fellow who is pleading innocence.
Regarding INNOCENCE:
Innocent people co-operate with those trying to seek answers.
Innocent people do not destroy evidence.
Innocent people do not have incriminating evidence (that needs to be destroyed) in the first place.
Innocent people do not need Lies, Deceit and Coverups to prove their innocence.
Innocent people have feelings. They have an ability to show some empathy with the victim.
And innocent people do not place themselves above and beyond the victim.
Above all, "innocent" people actually are, genuinely innocent.

 

[BreakingNews]

All sounds too familiar. Best book I have ever read is Perfect Stranger:A true story of desire and obsession by Kay Schubach. It's about Simon Lowe (now in jail) and his controlling and manipulating of Kay and other women in Sydney.

 

[JudgeJudy]

Thanks for that - A bit ironic about the name of the main character in this book. I hadn't heard of it before, but it is now on my watch list on Ebay because sadly, I don't have any funds in my Paypal account at the moment.

:tears:

 

[bajas]

I think the fact that SG installed surveillance cameras and was monitoring Lisa's emails and web searches was because he knew he himself was untrustworthy and dishonest. It is not uncommon to project one's own on traits on to others. His claim that Lisa was withholding a secret from him is rubbish, IMO. It was more likely that that he is the one with a dodgy secret which perhaps Lisa discovered and he was monitoring her to see if she had divulged it to anyone. Another reason why he would never let her get away from him.....why did the counsellor take his threats of harm so seriously that she moved house? Why was Lisa so fearful of him that she had to plot and scheme to leave him? Just a thought and all MOO.....

 

[LadyBird1]

I think the fact that SG installed surveillance cameras and was monitoring Lisa's emails and web searches was because he knew he himself was untrustworthy and dishonest. It is not uncommon to project one's own on traits on to others. His claim that Lisa was withholding a secret from him is rubbish, IMO. It was more likely that that he is the one with a dodgy secret which perhaps Lisa discovered and he was monitoring her to see if she had divulged it to anyone. Another reason why he would never let her get away from him.....why did the counsellor take his threats of harm so seriously that she moved house? Why was Lisa so fearful of him that she had to plot and scheme to leave him? Just a thought and all MOO.....

I think the only way that Lisa could escape her prison, would have been to use some of his tactics. And very sleuthfully too.
Do NOT divulge her intentions, either to return home, or find a place of refuge in the meanwhile. Fake some form of illness that required a Doctor's attention. Some clever female wiles very necessary.
Be cunning. Be careful. She should NEVER have trusted him with anything, let alone her life, or anything.
Of course it's easy to be wise in retrospect.
Which brings us back to her counsellor. I suspect she holds quite a few cards.
Let's hope she is and was au fait with narcissism.

 

[bajas]

I'm thinking it's possible that Lisa found out something that he had either done in his past or something that he was involved in that gave her (and her counsellor for that matter) reason to be really fearful of him and to want to escape him/have nothing more to do with him.....They both realized that they were out of their depths dealing with the likes of him....IMO

 

[LadyBird1]

I'm thinking it's possible that Lisa found out something that he had either done in his past or something that he was involved in that gave her (and her counsellor for that matter) reason to be really fearful of him and to want to escape him/have nothing more to do with him.....They both realized that they were out of their depths dealing with the likes of him....IMO

Like having an affair with a model, come actress. come stripper, when he was allegedly engaged to Lisa?
BTW Is that a secret? Remembering that everything about a Narcissist gets twisted about. Twisted that the Narcissist is made the victim. Trying to think of more appropriate words than "Arse about face"
Everything said is topsy turvy, back to front, illogical.

 

[bearbear]

Bearbear, this quote might help answer some questions. Hope it is helpful.

thankyou! its really helpful, i skipped a few pages and missed that post.
so lisa may have been killed or knocked out beforehand and no one will ever know!

 

[MsAnais]

I'm thinking it's possible that Lisa found out something that he had either done in his past or something that he was involved in that gave her (and her counsellor for that matter) reason to be really fearful of him and to want to escape him/have nothing more to do with him.....They both realized that they were out of their depths dealing with the likes of him....IMO

I completely agree Bajas - I think a lot of it has to do with his connections and who he knows. All linked in with his 'job', I suspect........

For the counsellor to react so dramatically suggests that he posed a serious risk to her and she knew that. Therapists often get threatened by angry males who don't like seeing their partnerchange, but it is highly unusual to then actually move house because of it. The counsellor knew what - and who - SG was involved with, IMO.:scared:

 

[Makara]

I completely agree Bajas - I think a lot of it has to do with his connections and who he knows. All linked in with his 'job', I suspect........

For the counsellor to react so dramatically suggests that he posed a serious risk to her and she knew that. Therapists often get threatened by angry males who don't like seeing their partnerchange, but it is highly unusual to then actually move house because of it. The counsellor knew what - and who - SG was involved with, IMO.:scared:

BBM:

Thanks Isis and this begs the question. Why was SG initially granted bail? :banghead:

 

[bajas]

I agree, Makara. As I have stated earlier, the legal system certainly does seem to be pandering towards the accused. Out on bail on a murder charge, a judge only trial, the results in the case law articles in this case, the judge stressing that she had to revoke bail only due to the stage of the trial, nothing more; the lack of follow up of the removed hard drive that was tampered with, lost and then miraculously turned up, as if this is a complete non-event....all this in a horrific murder trial that has witnesses testifying in
court coupled with the accused's arrogance and contempt while in the dock...he seems so confident that he will be acquitted....all tells Me that there is more to SG than is apparent.....don't hold out for a guilty verdict!

 

[SouthAussie]

All I can think of is how Lisa’s family will feel if a Not Guilty decision is delivered …. and how the eyewitness will feel, and the next door neighbours, and the personal trainer, and psychologist, and police, and prosecutor (let alone the rest of Australia who badly want justice for Lisa).

They have all done all they can to get SG put away for a long, long time, and I believe the evidence is there and the case has been proved … video footage - screams of fear and terror - 69 seconds - no fingerprints of Lisa’s – eyewitness - handbag laying on the ground by Lisa. This is a Guilty verdict.

 

[Fuskier]

I agree, Makara. As I have stated earlier, the legal system certainly does seem to be pandering towards the accused. Out on bail on a murder charge, a judge only trial, the results in the case law articles in this case, the judge stressing that she had to revoke bail only due to the stage of the trial, nothing more; the lack of follow up of the removed hard drive that was tampered with, lost and then miraculously turned up, as if this is a complete non-event....all this in a horrific murder trial that has witnesses testifying in
court coupled with the accused's arrogance and contempt while in the dock...he seems so confident that he will be acquitted....all tells Me that there is more to SG than is apparent.....don't hold out for a guilty verdict!

The treats to the Cousellor were unacceptable - especially that she had to move house. How did SG find out where the Counsellor lived?
Is he or his associates capable of finding out where the female Judge lives?

From reading posts, speculation seems to be growing that there may be 'implied threat' and/or an implied 'culture of fear' around the alleged murderer and his associates/connections. What would such implications be for a female, Judge only trial?

IMO the community need to ask questions publically and demand that the DPP look into any deliberation we believe needs to be reexamined and re-tried.

Nobody should be 'above' The Law - Judge and citizen alike.

All in my honest opinion.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have read through this Ruling on Evidence by the court in its entirety (pretty laborious reading!) The judge was ruling on various texts/conversations/videos that the prosecutor and defence wanted ruled in or out of evidence.

It seems pretty fair and impartial to me. Some things were ruled in, some things were ruled out. The court’s decisions seem to be based on how recent the items were (hence, how relevant to the case) and precedence set by other judges in similar rulings.

The defence even tried to rule out a text sent by SG to Lisa that was actually in SG’s favour! The judge sort of said ‘ummm …. don’t think you meant to include this, dodo’ (obvious paraphrasing, on my part!), and didn’t rule on it either way in her decisions – just sort of let it hang in limbo (presumably, pending further submissions by the prosecutor or defence).

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/pjudg?jgmtid=168011

 

[jamie233]

I have read through this Ruling on Evidence by the court in its entirety (pretty laborious reading!) The judge was ruling on various texts/conversations/videos that the prosecutor and defence wanted ruled in or out of evidence.

It seems pretty fair and impartial to me. Some things were ruled in, some things were ruled out. The court’s decisions seem to be based on how recent the items were (hence, how relevant to the case) and precedence set by other judges in similar rulings.

The defence even tried to rule out a text sent by SG to Lisa that was actually in SG’s favour! The judge sort of said ‘ummm …. don’t think you meant to include this, dodo’ (obvious paraphrasing, on my part!), and didn’t rule on it either way in her decisions – just sort of let it hang in limbo (presumably, pending further submissions by the prosecutor or defence).

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action/pjudg?jgmtid=168011

When I read through the link I just felt really sorry for Lisa's mum. Some of the conversations she was trying to recall but without a date they were not admissible. I guess at the time you wouldn't think to note these things down because you would never in a million years expect to be in this situation.

 

[bearbear]

interesting article and references this case as an example....
Intimidating, violent, obsessive: the men who 'control' women
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...ho-control-women/story-fnet09p2-1226764275835

 

[JudgeJudy]

Thanks Bearbear - It's a very interesting article. The first pic is a bit misleading though. I'm pretty sure it's a pic of RL, but it sort of insinuates that it is LH. Did you notice that ?

 

[Fuskier]

interesting article and references this case as an example....
Intimidating, violent, obsessive: the men who 'control' women
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...ho-control-women/story-fnet09p2-1226764275835

Thank you Bearbear. IMO picture was RL. Here are a few key excerpts from the article:

Whether Supreme Court Judge Lucy McCallum convicts Mr Gittany of Ms Harnum's murder, or whether she believes his defence, their relationship is a textbook case of a controller and his victim, two domestic violence experts told news.com.au.

"The 'danger time' when she risks death is if she threatens to leave"
"When she wants to leave her risk of mortality rises sharply".

The charm phase
The obsession begins
The isolation phase
Denigration
Submission
Danger and punishment

Excellent read on this subject. Well worth a read IMO.

 

[MsAnais]

Thanks Bearbear - It's a very interesting article. The first pic is a bit misleading though. I'm pretty sure it's a pic of RL, but it sort of insinuates that it is LH. Did you notice that ?

That first photo in the article is definitely Lisa - it's from a photo shoot we discussed a little further back in the thread. She looks different to the smiling photos we usually see of her, doesn't she? But it's still her.

 

[Fuskier]

That first photo in the article is definitely Lisa - it's from a photo shoot we discussed a little further back in the thread. She looks different to the smiling photos we usually see of her, doesn't she? But it's still her.

Interesting. The newspaper has changed the photo. It is now Lisa Harnum. Previously it was a photo of Rachel Louise standing by a car, wearing a car t-shirt with her cleavage & abdomen exposed.