GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

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Do we know why the note in Lisa's pocket was torn?
 
Regarding Lisa's counsellor - I don't want to vilify her or blame her in any way. She may well have formulated a plan with Lisa in session to take practical steps to leave eg. give her belongings to different people in order to make a clean getaway etc.

It seems more likely that ole SG found out about Lisa's leaving plans by his constant, paranoid surveillance of her, rather than Lisa announcing it to him IMO. Lisa would have known from past experience that to tell him she was leaving would enrage him. :twocents:
 
sleepinoz said:
Do we know why the note in Lisa's pocket was torn?
Click to expand...

I've wondered about that too, sleep. I thought maybe that he found the note (why not? probably checked her pockets, her handbag, everything about her) and tore it up during an argument, or during THE (final) argument. Then Lisa stuffed it in her pocket when he wasn't looking. Not sure why she would do that, other than fear for her life and leaving a clue, just in case??
 
Wow ! Sleuth's minds think alike. I also was thinking about the note in the last day or so. IMO - It would have had to have been placed in her pocket within the previous days (if not that fateful morning) at least I would think, depending upon how often you change your clothes I guess, although it could've been written some time ago. You're either a person who doesn't mind wearing the same pants / jeans for a couple of days or longer, or someone who wears fresh clothes daily.

I wonder if the note was fingerprinted. Surely whoever tore it up would have left prints, but perhaps that wouldn't prove anything more than what we all now know about SG's 'control' (or lack of) issues.

IMO - It wouldn't surprise me that SG did find the note, either overnight or that morning, became enraged because he's losing control (ie. feels she is scheming behind his back, has done this without his permission). He questions her about who she has shown the note to.......rips it up, discards it somewhere.......they argue and it becomes heated and scary. She's had enough and is scared and thinks 'stuff my belongings, I'm outta here', grabs her handbag, goes to leave and then it all unfolds from the CCTV footage onwards. IMO.

:sick:
 
SouthAussie said:
I've wondered about that too, sleep. I thought maybe that he found the note (why not? probably checked her pockets, her handbag, everything about her) and tore it up during an argument, or during THE (final) argument. Then Lisa stuffed it in her pocket when he wasn't looking. Not sure why she would do that, other than fear for her life and leaving a clue, just in case??
Click to expand...
That's two clues that Lisa left in case anything bad happened. She must have suspected strongly he might kill her.
And she knew she might not be able to speak for herself.

A day before she was allegedly murdered by her "controlling and abusive" fiance, Canadian hairdresser Lisa Harnum called her mother in distress, asking "mummy, please come and get me," a court has heard.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lisa-harn...-court-told-20131022-2vy8u.html#ixzz2lEfwlyAD

Later that night, the young woman allegedly rang her mother back and said "mummy, remember that I love you ... if anything happens to me, call Michelle [her counsellor]."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lisa-harn...-court-told-20131022-2vy8u.html#ixzz2lEfAektL
 
SouthAussie said:
I've wondered about that too, sleep. I thought maybe that he found the note (why not? probably checked her pockets, her handbag, everything about her) and tore it up during an argument, or during THE (final) argument. Then Lisa stuffed it in her pocket when he wasn't looking. Not sure why she would do that, other than fear for her life and leaving a clue, just in case??
Click to expand...

GS may have noticed on his 'spy' footage that Lisa showed someone the note and then placed it in her pocket or concealed it elsewhere. I don't think she would've left it lying around for him to find. His curiousity as to what it was would have driven him crazy until he found it, by threats or otherwise. It wouldn't surprise me if GS ordered Lisa to tear it up, which she did and placed the pieces in her pocket. This indicates to me that this happened not long before Lisa died. Did anyone visit the unit in the days leading up to Lisa's death? Someone that she may have shown the note to?
 
Makara said:
GS may have noticed on his 'spy' footage that Lisa showed someone the note and then placed it in her pocket or concealed it elsewhere. I don't think she would've left it lying around for him to find. His curiousity as to what it was would have driven him crazy until he found it, by threats or otherwise. It wouldn't surprise me if GS ordered Lisa to tear it up, which she did and placed the pieces in her pocket. This indicates to me that this happened not long before Lisa died. Did anyone visit the unit in the days leading up to Lisa's death? Someone that she may have shown the note to?
Click to expand...

I wonder if Lisa had notes like that on her just in case someone called in - or someone was coming to visit her that day - but never made contact (because she was deceased).
I also think SG knew she had the note on her.

It has bothered me that when SG went downstairs after Lisa had fallen - that he stood back from where others were trying to help Lisa, just looking at her. I have wondered if his intention had been to try and remove something from her (the note) - or something from her handbag - but it was too late as there were too many people around and he would be seen doing 'something'.

Im dismayed that he even got close to her when she was on the pavement. He could have tried to remove something then. Poking her forehead was just plain wrong.

.
 
MAKARA - A cleaner was hired to clean the balcony area once a week. I wonder if anyone has spoken to the cleaner (about the note).
 
We see GS leave the unit. He then has an 'oh s**t' moment! Realises that what he'd just done to Lisa would have been captured on his computer, or more to the point on the external hard drive he had connected to his main computer. The external hard drive is nothing more than a small box attached to the main computer by a USB cable.

He races to his computer, yanks the USB and external hard drive out of his main computer, climbs up on the chair and or desk and conceals it in the manhole. He doesn't have time to check it or wipe whatever may have been recorded there. He grabs a t-shirt on the way out of the unit and is still putting it on when he enters the lift. All easily done in 32 seconds.

I'm amazed that the police didn't discover that the spy software was programmed to record to the external hard drive, whether it be D: drive, E, F or whatever drive the software was programmed to record to.

GS must have been breathing a sigh of relief when the police hadn't recovered the external hard drive in the roof. He couldn't do it himself because he no longer had access to the unit. It was now a crime scene. By the time GS was arrested, the unit was no longer cordoned off and GS was able to enlist his brother to get the hard drive, wipe whatever was on it, with or without the assistance of an IT mate and get rid of it. Yet another external hard drive was hooked up to GS's main computer (by person or persons unknown) and all that is recorded on that hard drive, the one that was evidenced in court by Craig McCoy, is a shot of the interior of the unit. Nothing more. If it wasn't hooked up to GS's computer (when did the police confiscate his comuter?), it could easily have been set up on another PC, laptop, ipad etc.

It's a shame that the camera outside the unit wasn't still in operation after the police has finished their investigation. It would have been very interesting to see the comings and goings there.

All speculation on my part.

Examples of external hard drives. They are similar for PC's and Macs.

EHD1.jpg

EHD2.jpg

GS's computer's etc.

MOR-computers-narrow-20131107170548940386-300x0.jpg
 
Makara, Who was the visitor, spy or traitor? Lisa wasn't allowed into the world, so who visited the unit & was BEING PAID by SG, personal trainer? Cleaner? Were these being watched by SG on camera. Was RL the traitor & gave to note to SG?
If he couldn't be at home he would be watching that personal trainer with Lisa on camera, Lisa would have to warn him not to get too close or touch her.
The paper was ripped from a notepad from Kikki.K stationery & because it was dark paper it needed the white pen, the notepad was not in her handbag so it was from the unit.

http://www.kikki-k.com/stationery?gclid=CPLI8Yn29LoCFYchpQodqzoAMw

http://www.news.com.au/national/wha...of-simon-gittany/story-fncynjr2-1226759925554

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/19632239/chilling-note-found-on-sydney-woman-thrown-from-balcony/
 
FigTree said:
I wonder if Lisa had notes like that on her just in case someone called in - or someone was coming to visit her that day - but never made contact (because she was deceased).
I also think SG knew she had the note on her.

It has bothered me that when SG went downstairs after Lisa had fallen - that he stood back from where others were trying to help Lisa, just looking at her. I have wondered if his intention had been to try and remove something from her (the note) - or something from her handbag - but it was too late as there were too many people around and he would be seen doing 'something'.

Im dismayed that he even got close to her when she was on the pavement. He could have tried to remove something then. Poking her forehead was just plain wrong.

.
Click to expand...

I agree FigTree. GS probably had another 'oh s**t' moment when he realised that the torn up note was still in Lisa's pocket. When he was poking Lisa's forehead with one hand what was he doing with the other?

JudgeJudy said:
MAKARA - A cleaner was hired to clean the balcony area once a week. I wonder if anyone has spoken to the cleaner (about the note).
Click to expand...

Good point JudgeJudy and we haven't heard anything about the cleaner being interviewed etc. I wonder why? Too scared perhaps?

they'll get you said:
Makara, Who was the visitor, spy or traitor? Lisa wasn't allowed into the world, so who visited the unit & was BEING PAID by SG, personal trainer? Cleaner? Were these being watched by SG on camera. Was RL the traitor & gave to note to SG?
If he couldn't be at home he would be watching that personal trainer with Lisa on camera, Lisa would have to warn him not to get too close or touch her.
The paper was ripped from a notepad from Kikki.K stationery & because it was dark paper it needed the white pen, the notepad was not in her handbag so it was from the unit.


http://www.kikki-k.com/stationery?gclid=CPLI8Yn29LoCFYchpQodqzoAMw

http://www.news.com.au/national/wha...of-simon-gittany/story-fncynjr2-1226759925554
Click to expand...

BBM:

Visitor, spy or traitor. Interesting TGY. I do believe that SG was paranoid and could have 'clued up' the cleaner, personal trainer or whoever to engage Lisa in conversation about personal stuff and her plans for the future. These people may have done this quite innocently, not realising that SG had another agenda. He may have simply told them that Lisa was feeling a bit lonely while he was at work. Whatever 'work' was!

From memory the notepad was found in the spare bedroom of the unit. I'm wondering if Lisa sat in there and wrote the note, thinking that room wasn't being monitored. Or did she take someone in there, wrote the note and showed it to them?
 
Makara - the attachments aren't working for me (they were before though).
Just letting you know :)
 
FigTree said:
...

It has bothered me that when SG went downstairs after Lisa had fallen - that he stood back from where others were trying to help Lisa, just looking at her. I have wondered if his intention had been to try and remove something from her (the note) - or something from her handbag - but it was too late as there were too many people around and he would be seen doing 'something'.

Im dismayed that he even got close to her when she was on the pavement. He could have tried to remove something then. Poking her forehead was just plain wrong.

.
Click to expand...

Agreed Fig Tree. That crossed my mind as well. Hypothetical: "Oops! ... her phone was in her handbag...get it quickly...you stupid idiot, why didn't you think of that beforehand!" Answer: Because of the enraged mental state captured within that 69 seconds time frame.
 
FigTree said:
Makara - the attachments aren't working for me (they were before though).
Just letting you know :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for letting me know FigTree. I don't know what happened there. I've just uploaded the pics again. I can see them now. Can you?
 
Fuskier said:
Agreed Fig Tree. That crossed my mind as well. Hypothetical: "Oops! ... her phone was in her handbag...get it quickly...you stupid idiot, why didn't you think of that beforehand!" Answer: Because of the enraged mental state captured within that 69 seconds time frame.
Click to expand...

Aahh, the phone! Of course! All of those weird and nasty text messages he didn't want anyone to see. ! This has got me thinking again about Allison Baden-Clay's phone and what happened to it. :banghead:
 
LadyBird1 said:
It's a long way to tip a Lisa. It's a long way to go.
Please don't drop me Simon, I'm a good girl, That you know.

All thoughts that 'go rolling around in my head" are accompanied by video type motion pictures. Sometimes with song. Apologies if these descriptions are too graphic.
I think ICU Nurse will verify that even with a broken neck, consciousness would still be in accord until she was knocked out with an appropriate head bump.
There isn't really a soft way of saying that she was well aware throughout.
And yes, I am seduced by the evidence such is available via MSM, together with my limited but real knowledge of how Narcissists operate.
Another way to put that: I can see clearly now the evidence is shown.

And yes, it makes me angry to see a softly softly, approach to these lying conniving seducers who care for none other but themselves.
All IMO.
Click to expand...

Keeping the information very general here until I go through the verified process as to abide by forum rules.

In terms of a broken neck, the location of the break and degree of cord involvement means a few different outcomes.

A break that results in cord severing at the C1/C2 vertebrae or junction could result in instantaneous loss of consciousness and a very fast death.

The same break with compression on the cord would depend on the level of the compression. If it was a complete occlusion, then death would be fast. If the cord was less involved, death would not be as rapid. The trouble is that with trauma of any kind, the body attempts to heal itself by sending all those fantastic little repair agents to the one spot. The trouble when all those agents start arriving at a site as sensitive as the spine is that the body's healing mechanism creates pressure, and without decompression the cord will eventually end up as damaged as if it was completely severed.

People can and do survive breaks at this height with the aid of respiratory support and decompression. But without speedy medical intervention the prognosis is not usually great.


A hypothetical C3/C4 scenario with compression could leave a person conscious but immobile for quite some time. The inspiration impulse would exist to breathe but diaphragmatic expansion to properly inflate the lungs would be limited. Eventually the shallow breaths that are not great for oxygenation would result in hypoxia.

This is why many quadruplegics/tetraplegics remain ventilator dependant and end up with a tracheostomy, even if they do manage to regain some control of their arms. Not for the initiation of a breath - but for PEEP and pressure support.

Marly - I hope I haven't overstepped the line here. I will get around to the verification process once this block of 8 shifts straight has ended!!!
 
It appears that the counsellor received threats in the days leading up to LH's death. Therefore, she must have moved house after LH's death, either whilst SG was in custody for a short period, or while he was released on bail.

:hills:
 
sleepinoz said:
Do we know why the note in Lisa's pocket was torn?
Click to expand...

I differ in my opinion from others here. I think Lisa wrote the note either in the presence of someone who came to the apartment when she was there alone -maybe even the personal trainer, or wrote it in preparation for someone/anyone she knew who called there - maybe someone assisting her to move her stuff to storage. She used the note then tore it up then or later to dispose of, say down the loo. I don't think SG ever knew of that note. Lisa was protecting herself by using the note. What dreadful fear she must have lived in during her final days there. Just so tragic that she did not fully forsee what SG was capable of.
 
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