GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

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KG1 said:
I differ in my opinion from others here. I think Lisa wrote the note either in the presence of someone who came to the apartment when she was there alone -maybe even the personal trainer, or wrote it in preparation for someone/anyone she knew who called there - maybe someone assisting her to move her stuff to storage. She used the note then tore it up then or later to dispose of, say down the loo. I don't think SG ever knew of that note. Lisa was protecting herself by using the note. What dreadful fear she must have lived in during her final days there. Just so tragic that she did not fully forsee what SG was capable of.
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Good point KG1. Lisa wasn't allowed to have friends, so I'd think it was likely it was the female personal trainer that the note was quickly written for and discretely shown to.

Lisa wouldn't have wanted to throw the note in the rubbish bin, he probably checked that too! Maybe she couldn't even go to the loo with the door closed - who knows what the 'rules' were?! So maybe she intended to smuggle the ripped up note out and dispose of it elsewhere, if he ever took her out, or after she escaped (which she didn't :( )

I cannot imagine how little privacy Lisa had, to have to resort to sneaking everything and anything she safely could. She probably sent text messages then deleted them, then couldn't work out how he knew about a message she had sent and deleted earlier.
 
Makara said:
We see GS leave the unit. He then has an 'oh s**t' moment! Realises that what he'd just done to Lisa would have been captured on his computer, or more to the point on the external hard drive he had connected to his main computer. The external hard drive is nothing more than a small box attached to the main computer by a USB cable.

He races to his computer, yanks the USB and external hard drive out of his main computer, climbs up on the chair and or desk and conceals it in the manhole. He doesn't have time to check it or wipe whatever may have been recorded there. He grabs a t-shirt on the way out of the unit and is still putting it on when he enters the lift. All easily done in 32 seconds.

I'm amazed that the police didn't discover that the spy software was programmed to record to the external hard drive, whether it be D: drive, E, F or whatever drive the software was programmed to record to.

GS must have been breathing a sigh of relief when the police hadn't recovered the external hard drive in the roof. He couldn't do it himself because he no longer had access to the unit. It was now a crime scene. By the time GS was arrested, the unit was no longer cordoned off and GS was able to enlist his brother to get the hard drive, wipe whatever was on it, with or without the assistance of an IT mate and get rid of it. Yet another external hard drive was hooked up to GS's main computer (by person or persons unknown) and all that is recorded on that hard drive, the one that was evidenced in court by Craig McCoy, is a shot of the interior of the unit. Nothing more. If it wasn't hooked up to GS's computer (when did the police confiscate his comuter?), it could easily have been set up on another PC, laptop, ipad etc.

It's a shame that the camera outside the unit wasn't still in operation after the police has finished their investigation. It would have been very interesting to see the comings and goings there.
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Someone told me that police can't just search wherever the heck they want. Their search warrants may say 'all living areas of residence, and cars, garages, and outbuildings' or something like that.

Apparently they have to specify where/what they are searching. This person said that if the ceiling crawlspace wasn't on the warrant, they wouldn't legally have been able to look there on a whim, as it is presumably 'open' space connected to other apartments.

Which leads me to another question ... do apartments usually have hatches to communal ceiling crawlspace? I didn't think they did .. or not in my experience anyway.

Would the hideyhole/access in the ceiling be something SG had 'created' himself to conceal spy-camera wiring and who-knows-what-else that he didn't want in 'searchable' areas. There could have been a lot more up there than the hard-drive that he was also concerned about IMO.
 
What strikes me as so tragic about this case is that Lisa seemed like such a kind, sensitive and forgiving person. In the photo of the contents of her handbag, there is a book that looks like Louise Hay 'Affirmations'. It looks as though she was working hard on improving herself: the personal trainer, counsellor, dealing with body issues AND she was waking up to the fact that SG was not good for her(or anyone!). One article quoted her as saying to someone 'I need to stop being the victim'. She would have been hardest on herself than anyone else. In reference to SG she said 'I love him, but there are parts of him I don't love'. She was holding out hope that SG would change, and had he done so I'm guessing she would have forgiven him for his abuse and continued loving him. These are the kinds of people the world needs more of, and yet she has had her life taken in the most violent and horrific way. I think the fact that she was so good-hearted is why she could not imagine or as KG1 said 'fully foresee what SG was capable of'.
 
montycooper said:
What strikes me as so tragic about this case is that Lisa seemed like such a kind, sensitive and forgiving person. In the photo of the contents of her handbag, there is a book that looks like Louise Hay 'Affirmations'. It looks as though she was working hard on improving herself: the personal trainer, counsellor, dealing with body issues AND she was waking up to the fact that SG was not good for her(or anyone!). One article quoted her as saying to someone 'I need to stop being the victim'. She would have been hardest on herself than anyone else. In reference to SG she said 'I love him, but there are parts of him I don't love'. She was holding out hope that SG would change, and had he done so I'm guessing she would have forgiven him for his abuse and continued loving him. These are the kinds of people the world needs more of, and yet she has had her life taken in the most violent and horrific way. I think the fact that she was so good-hearted is why she could not imagine or as KG1 said 'fully foresee what SG was capable of'.
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Beautifully said, Montycooper. You can tell from the little bits of footage we've seen that Lisa was indeed a gentle and lovely woman - and everything you've said resonates as likely, IMO.

She really was working consciously to turn her life around - so sad that he couldn't just let her go.

Hopefully this case acts as a catalyst/wake up call for other women caught in similar situations and it helps them decide to leave - that would be a beautiful gift from Lisa.
 
they'll get you said:
I agree SouthAussie that judges should be more involved. I've been a witness in court and the incident I saw was imprinted in my mind & nothing could sway me and it remains vivid to this day. Joshua Rathmell seemed a young, astute fellow who was adamant when speaking with the police in the park, I understand people can be rattled with nerves but it's surprising how people can be 'swung' so easily by these bombastic lawyers & then question themselves what they actually saw. That horrific sight would have a lasting effect on you Josh, thank you for coming forward as I'm sure there were others that day that didn't.

Could SG's attitude be a religious based fanaticism? He had issues with Lisa's hair being down & wanting her more covered, making her submit & trying to convert her or is it just his personality disorder. Due to firm religious beliefs, do judges bend a little? (Not for murder of course)

Something's not sitting right. Did the psychiatrist tell the police when she was threatened, if not, why not? I think she had a duty of care. Lisa could have stood by SG if the police were called in but she could be alive today with some support. Kind of a Stockholm syndrome?
I'm so saddened by all this violence!
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Something not sitting right with me too. Well many things not sitting right actually.
SG says Lisa jumped. An eye witness says otherwise.
SG says he tried to save her by holding on to her. The witness says he turned his back immediately after unloading her and went back inside.
He says he was making a coffee and submitted a picture of a jug.
There is no evidence he was taking photos during the loud argument. The photo of the jug should not be admissible, as evidence. That's ludicrous.
Some of Lisa's mothers evidence has been inadmissible because she can't provide proof of an exact date.
There is evidence he has lied.
There is evidence he has deliberately tampered with evidence.
There is evidence he was in a state of apocalyptic rage.
There is evidence was violent, and capable of draconian behaviour.
There is evidence he has a history of violence.
In March 1994, (SMH report) Simon Gittany bit off part of a Detective's ear during a violent struggle to arrest him.
He was Charged with one count of maliciously inflicting grievous bodily harm to avoid apprehension, two of assault and two of resisting arrest.
He faced another five charges, including break enter and steal.
(This man means business)
There is evidence Lisa feared for her life and wanted to escape her prison.
There is evidence that any attempts she made to escape were thwarted by SG himself.
Checkmate situation.
 
Should have added to above post:
There is evidence that SG instructed his Lawyers to establish that the victim was suicidal and had suicidal tendencies. She had "mental issues" he claims.
There is evidence he is willing and able to drag the deceased victim through the mud, so to speak. A full character assassination. No holds barred.
There is further evidence to suggest that is the precise behaviour of these sorts of murderers.
The malignant narcissist sociopath: appear to follow copycat behaviour. Common theme?
 
You may well be right LB1 ... but personally (and sadly) I think that SG treated Lisa in the way in which he believes women should be treated, according to whatever belief system he has acquired for himself in his 40 years. I bet that he doesn't treat the men in his life in this way. There are men out there like that ... and IMO he is one of them.
 
SouthAussie said:
You may well be right LB1 ... but personally (and sadly) I think that SG treated Lisa in the way in which he believes women should be treated, according to whatever belief system he has acquired for himself in his 40 years. I bet that he doesn't treat the men in his life in this way. There are men out there like that ... and IMO he is one of them.
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No, I think they are on to him......
http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/action...?jgmtid=168011
(Unless the Judge is female and fears for her life due to threats such as he made to the counsellor.)

Link doesn't want to work. Refer to your post 20 November at 08.52am
Try this link:
R v Gittany (No 2) [2013] NSWSC 1599

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/NSWSC/2013/1599.html
 
Interesting interview with Mark Tedeschi

http://www.thebottomlinetv.com.au/interview/mark-tedeschi/

As a barrister for 35 years Mark Tedeschi QC has lived and breathed some of this country’s most high profile cases. Just some of the milestones in his legal career include gaining a conviction for Ivan Milat, Neddy Smith and serial child killer Kathleen Folbigg. In this must see episode of the Bottom Line, Tedeschi talks openly about the emotional challenges of the law, how our system of government decision-making is in need of serious revamping and his great passion for photography.
 
LillyPilly said:
Hi everyone... :loveyou:

Just wanted to add that I went to primary and high school with three of the Gittany family members - Simon, Simon's brother (mentioned in MSM), Anthony, and a female cousin (with whom I was close friends).

For anyone interested, the family pronounce their surname "Jit-arny".

When I first saw Simon in the news, I immediately thought, "Yep, he killed her." The more I see of him, and the more I hear the evidence, the more I'm convinced. MOO.

My experience of the family was limited to school interactions, birthday parties and occasional weekend get togethers. However, even as a young person, it was clear to me that the Gittany men ruled, while the women quietly obeyed. The Gittany women I knew were strong, gorgeous and intelligent, but were also constantly brow-beaten and put down by some of their male relatives.

My thoughts and prayers go to Lisa and her family. RIP, beautiful lady. XX
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Just wanted to bring this post from LillyPilly forward ... IMO it provides useful insight.

I just keep thinking that beautiful Lisa, who was raised with all the freedoms that Canadian life has to offer to women, may have really struggled with bowing to SG's control and demands ... hence the spy-cameras and SMS monitoring .. he had to be assured that she was toeing the line, and monitoring her was the only way he could be 'sure'.

But, even then, Lisa had the last word - with the ripped up 'surveillance' note in her pocket. She left behind a clear message of what this 'person' was really like.
 
Something that crossed my mind recently - what time of morning did this incident happen? I'm assuming early morning, but how early exactly?

I pass the apartment block at least twice daily. There is a cafe in the area where Lisa would have landed. I assume that cafe was not there at the time. There's usually lots of people around, there are at least 2 pedestrian crossings facing towards the building, and many footpaths within eye shot. I'm really amazed nobody else on the street level heard / saw more of the fall that we've been aware of via MSM...
 
Lavelle72, I'm amazed that there weren't more witnesses too! Since you know the building /area, Iv'e been wondering, are there any other high rise apartments surrounding the Hyde? At nearly 10 am on a Saturday morning you would think quite a lot of residents would be at home and witnessed the event. Of course, only if they happened to have been looking in that direction. But the screams? And in the middle of Sydney? I really hope there aren't witnesses that have chosen to not come forward.
 
montycooper said:
Lavelle72, I'm amazed that there weren't more witnesses too! Since you know the building /area, Iv'e been wondering, are there any other high rise apartments surrounding the Hyde? At nearly 10 am on a Saturday morning you would think quite a lot of residents would be at home and witnessed the event. Of course, only if they happened to have been looking in that direction. But the screams? And in the middle of Sydney? I really hope there aren't witnesses that have chosen to not come forward.
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There is a large bus stop there & Josh Rathwell said his vision was obscured by buses so surely someone saw from a bus or waiting for a bus. There's lots of people in the city at that time.

I'm also wondering how long Lisa was in Australia & if she was penniless or did SG take her money/bank account. Also if Lisa's visa expired she would have been the PERFECT TARGET for fear. How safe would Mrs Harnum be if she did come for Lisa remembering his threats to anyone who'd intervene on his grand plan, he attacked and injured a policeman!
 
KG1 said:
I differ in my opinion from others here. I think Lisa wrote the note either in the presence of someone who came to the apartment when she was there alone -maybe even the personal trainer, or wrote it in preparation for someone/anyone she knew who called there - maybe someone assisting her to move her stuff to storage. She used the note then tore it up then or later to dispose of, say down the loo. I don't think SG ever knew of that note. Lisa was protecting herself by using the note. What dreadful fear she must have lived in during her final days there. Just so tragic that she did not fully forsee what SG was capable of.
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I agree with your views about the note KG1.

I don't believe Lucy McCallum would be in the least concerned about SG or his friends harming her if she did not find in his favour. The fact she is a woman does not make her more fearful than a male judge in criminal courts or family courts. Very few criminals or enraged family members are able to get close enough to judges to threaten them in this country. I can only think of one Family Court judge (Opit J) and the wife of a Family Court judge (Pearl Watson) who were murdered, apparently by people unhappy with these judge' decisions.
 
JudgeJudy said:
It was reported that the fall happened at 9.55am on Saturday 30th July 2011.
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Peak hour? Amazing.
She was dressed in black, and he was wearing pyjama pants.
Thanks for clarifying that time.
MSM reports do mention witnesses plural, lets hope that is right.
 
montycooper said:
Lavelle72, I'm amazed that there weren't more witnesses too! Since you know the building /area, Iv'e been wondering, are there any other high rise apartments surrounding the Hyde? At nearly 10 am on a Saturday morning you would think quite a lot of residents would be at home and witnessed the event. Of course, only if they happened to have been looking in that direction. But the screams? And in the middle of Sydney? I really hope there aren't witnesses that have chosen to not come forward.
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Wow that's much later in the morning that I anticipated!

Here's is a Google Street View of the exactly spot where the Hyde building now sits: http://goo.gl/maps/EPSvR

You'll notice there are buildings running parallel, but facing the same direction as The Hyde - anyone in any of those buildings wouldn't have had visibility.

Directly opposite you have the park, with a major bus stop servicing a dozen or so routes (including Bondi which is one of the busiest bus corridors in Sydney). I would assume, even in the middle of winter, that there would be a number of people at that stop at that time (I wonder what the weather was like that day?). However, if a few buses pulled up at once, as tends to happen, then anyone standing at the stop would've had their view obscured (which corroborates Mr Rathmell's testimony that he had his view of the opposite pavement obscured by buses). People sitting on the right side of those buses would not have been looking up, particularly assuming they wouldn't have heard any screaming.

There is a major intersection at the junction right near the apartment building where Liverpool meets Elizabeth St. The northern side of Liverpool Street would be quite busy I expect with pedestrians at that time. Anybody walking in an easterly direction would reach the junction of Elizabeth St and be met with a pedestrian crossing. I stand at that crossing myself frequently and it offers an excellent view of the full front facade of the Hyde. These traffic lights can take a few minutes to change so there's frequently a handful of people there waiting on the green man. The fall would've been pretty much directly in line of sight if there was anybody stood there at that time.

My final comment relates to the only building I can see which may had had a good angle to see anything unfolding. The building in question can be seen here: http://goo.gl/maps/ABHzX. It is the Regency apartment building, which is 23 stories high - http://regencyhydepark.com.au/index.php. . If you spin 180 degrees in that Google Street View image, you can see the Hyde building with the crane on top just opposite around the corner. This is the most likely building to have had potential witnesses IMO.
 
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