FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #22

[amicuscurie]

The phone location at the time of the drop off, has to be kept secret until DA’s trial. It was too important to reveal at CA’s trial.
She is in hot water if she left from the family home.
I’d think since Wendi admitted she went from Tallahassee to the family home, even though it was Friday, and her parents may have usually been at the S Beach Condo, they were at home before the $ drop. And if so, they would not be passing Charlies house by any stretch of the imagination!
Do a map search.

I don’t believe Wendi said she went to the family home in Coral Springs after the murder just that she went to the family home. I believe they lived in the apartment Charlie rented for them. Jeff said she was cleaning out her childhood room just before the murder. We have seen a lease signed by Harvey in May for a condo in the Continuum, which suggests that he either rented a second place for himself there (why?) or that he took over Charlie’s lease at that time.

Side Note: I’m assuming that when Wendi said Charlie “got them” an apartment, she meant that Charlie was the one who leased it for them. It is my belief that Charlie had rented a place in the Continuum before the murder that he shared with them. There was a text message shown at Charlie’s trial from Donna in June asking Charlie if he wanted to “use the apartment” that weekend. The May lease for Harvey is strange to me, because it doesn’t make sense to me that Harvey would need to lease a place in May if Charlie already had one they were sharing. I believe there could possibly be two apartments, the original one Charlie rented and a second one leased by Harvey in May. If this is the case, it could be suggestive, to me, of premeditation. I hope the state is looking into exactly who first rented in the Continuum, and, if Charlie was the one who originally rented a place for them there, whether the May lease is for a SECOND place? And which of these two places might Wendi have possibly lived in with the boys and her parents after the murder? (It is possible that when Wendi said Charlie “got them” an apartment, she just meant that he found it for them, not that he rented it himself, and that’s why Harvey’s name was on the May lease. It’s also possible Harvey simply took over the original lease from Charlie, and that’s why his name is on the May lease. Still, in my opinion, the timing of the May lease, whether for the same apartment or a second one, seems suspicious.)

Anyway, cell tower record evidence presented at Charlie’s trial places Donna near a tower close to Charlie’s house after the murder, at the time records also show she sent him a text that says “outside your house.” I think this is enough to show she was outside his house that evening after she had heard about the murder from Wendi and began driving to Tallahassee. While arguably it might be more damning if the state could show she left from Coral Springs and backtracked, I don’t think it’s necessary. In my opinion there is enough evidence that she stopped by Charlie’s house and waited for him there to suggest that she was possibly doing the money drop, because what other reason would she have to stop by?

 

[Knitpicker]

I don’t believe Wendi said she went to the family home in Coral Springs after the murder just that she went to the family home. I believe they lived in the apartment Charlie rented for them. Jeff said she was cleaning out her childhood room just before the murder. We have seen a lease signed by Harvey in May for a condo in the Continuum, which suggests that he either rented a second place for himself there (why?) or that he took over Charlie’s lease at that time.

Side Note: I’m assuming that when Wendi said Charlie “got them” an apartment, she meant that Charlie was the one who leased it for them. It is my belief that Charlie had rented a place in the Continuum before the murder that he shared with them. There was a text message shown at Charlie’s trial from Donna in June asking Charlie if he wanted to “use the apartment” that weekend. The May lease for Harvey is strange to me, because it doesn’t make sense to me that Harvey would need to lease a place in May if Charlie already had one they were sharing. I believe there could possibly be two apartments, the original one Charlie rented and a second one leased by Harvey in May. If this is the case, it could be suggestive, to me, of premeditation. I hope the state is looking into exactly who first rented in the Continuum, and, if Charlie was the one who originally rented a place for them there, whether the May lease is for a SECOND place? And which of these two places might Wendi have possibly lived in with the boys and her parents after the murder? (It is possible that when Wendi said Charlie “got them” an apartment, she just meant that he found it for them, not that he rented it himself, and that’s why Harvey’s name was on the May lease. It’s also possible Harvey simply took over the original lease from Charlie, and that’s why his name is on the May lease. Still, in my opinion, the timing of the May lease, whether for the same apartment or a second one, seems suspicious.)

Anyway, cell tower record evidence presented at Charlie’s trial places Donna near a tower close to Charlie’s house after the murder, at the time records also show she sent him a text that says “outside your house.” I think this is enough to show she was outside his house that evening after she had heard about the murder from Wendi and began driving to Tallahassee. While arguably it might be more damning if the state could show she left from Coral Springs and backtracked, I don’t think it’s necessary. In my opinion there is enough evidence that she stopped by Charlie’s house and waited for him there to suggest that she was possibly doing the money drop, because what other reason would she have to stop by?

She did say at trial that she went to Coral Springs. She also said that to Isom when he asked “where is your family at”.
I watched Corbitt several times and I never heard that there was a cell location for the text “Passing your house”. Can you direct me to it if you have it. I watched specifically for that. Can’t believe I missed it.

The point I was making was this. According to Charlie, she was just passing his place on her way up to Tallahassee.
If she were to have left front he family home, she would not be passing his house on the way.
That was my point. She would be going out of her way. Pretty much the opposite direction

 

[Knitpicker]

Couple of guesses/possibilities: The next door neighbor? Maybe they had to get gas for the long trip and their is a gasoline credit card charge documenting location? (Hawvey you gas up the car, I'll wash the money?) The condo has an electronic lock/monitoring system/gate for cars entering the underground parking area? Maybe the black Lexus (HA's) had a GPS computer system that can account for every mile, location and history of searches? (Wow, now that is a possibility since SigGar was arrested while using the vehicle and deep search done on it...I'm getting the feeling "data never really disappears" hmmm)
Any other forms of documenting location?

Good points but how would someone other than the state know?

 

[amicuscurie]

She did say at trial that she went to Coral Springs. She also said that to Isom when he asked “where is your family at”.
I watched Corbitt several times and I never heard that there was a cell location for the text “Passing your house”. Can you direct me to it if you have it. I watched specifically for that. Can’t believe I missed it.

The point I was making was this. According to Charlie, she was just passing his place on her way up to Tallahassee.
If she were to have left front he family home, she would not be passing his house on the way.
That was my point. She would be going out of her way. Pretty much the opposite direction

I know she said her family was from Coral Springs. But I thought she said to Isom that because it was Friday her family would be at the Miami Beach Condo that day instead. I recall hearing her say that.

I don’t know about Corbett- I thought he had phone records for where Donna was when she sent the “outside your house” text. Of course, as I recall, the records show only the nearest cell phone tower, not the exact location, but I recall the testimony being that the phone was pinging on a tower near Charlie’s house. My recollection is that Donna’s text said “outside your house, not “passing your house.” Charlie responded “10 minutes,” if I recall correctly from trial. It’s not believable to me that she would text him “outside your house” just because she was passing by on the turnpike, (especially since he seems to me to have indicated he would meet her there in 10 minutes,) and I don’t think it was believable to Charlie’s jury, either. I don’t think it will be believable to the jury in Donna’s eventual trial. That’s why I don’t think it’s so important where she left from, if it can be shown she was outside his house waiting for him. What was she doing stopping and waiting there, on her way to comfort her daughter, and already facing a very long drive which required an overnight stop?

I believe Corbett also could place Donna’s phone in Orlando that night. There was some dispute, if I recall, during Corbett’s cross as to whether there was enough time between when she sent the “outside your house” text and when the phone was pinging near Orlando, for them to have driven from Ft. Lauderdale to Orlando. I believe there was sufficient time, with some time to spare waiting for Charlie, but I also remember Corbett saying he was going to go back and confirm.

 

[Knitpicker]

I know she said her family was from Coral Springs. But I thought she said to Isom that because it was Friday her family would be at the Miami Beach Condo that day instead. I recall hearing her say that.

I don’t know about Corbett- I thought he had phone records for where Donna was when she sent the “outside your house” text. Of course, as I recall, the records show only the nearest cell phone tower, not the exact location, but I recall the testimony being that the phone was pinging on a tower near Charlie’s house. My recollection is that Donna’s text said “outside your house, not “passing your house.” Charlie responded “10 minutes,” if I recall correctly from trial. It’s not believable to me that she would text him “outside your house” just because she was passing by on the turnpike, (especially since he seems to me to have indicated he would meet her there in 10 minutes,) and I don’t think it was believable to Charlie’s jury, either. I don’t think it will be believable to the jury in Donna’s eventual trial. That’s why I don’t think it’s so important where she left from, if it can be shown she was outside his house waiting for him. What was she doing stopping and waiting there, on her way to comfort her daughter, and already facing a very long drive which required an overnight stop?

I believe Corbett also could place Donna’s phone in Orlando that night. There was some dispute, if I recall, during Corbett’s cross as to whether there was enough time between when she sent the “outside your house” text and when the phone was pinging near Orlando, for them to have driven from Ft. Lauderdale to Orlando. I believe there was sufficient time, with some time to spare waiting for Charlie, but I also remember Corbett saying he was going to go back and confirm.

Yes i know the location was by Charlie. I shouldn’t quote unless it’s correct. Yes she said outside your house. Charlie alluded that it was that she was passing by.
The point again is where she was leaving from.
About the Friday comment, wow I heard her interview in full over 6 times, I guess I have to listen again not sure how I missed the Friday mention.
But she did say at trial that she went to Coral Springs.
So maybe considering it was Charlie that said she didn’t come in and that she was just passing by, it’s really a “nothingburger” to even continue on with the issue.

 

[Zedzded]

Anyway, cell tower record evidence presented at Charlie’s trial places Donna near a tower close to Charlie’s house after the murder, at the time records also show she sent him a text that says “outside your house.” I think this is enough to show she was outside his house that evening after she had heard about the murder from Wendi and began driving to Tallahassee. While arguably it might be more damning if the state could show she left from Coral Springs and backtracked, I don’t think it’s necessary. In my opinion there is enough evidence that she stopped by Charlie’s house and waited for him there to suggest that she was possibly doing the money drop, because what other reason would she have to stop by?

When has DA said that CA told her about the extortion?

 

[Zedzded]

Yes i know the location was by Charlie. I shouldn’t quote unless it’s correct. Yes she said outside your house. Charlie alluded that it was that she was passing by.
The point again is where she was leaving from.
About the Friday comment, wow I heard her interview in full over 6 times, I guess I have to listen again not sure how I missed the Friday mention.
But she did say at trial that she went to Coral Springs.
So maybe considering it was Charlie that said she didn’t come in and that she was just passing by, it’s really a “nothingburger” to even continue on with the issue.

Sorry I'm confused.

DA texted CXA to say "I'm outside your house". Not I'm nearly at your house or I'm passing by your house. I'm at your house. That statement plus metadata from her phone showing she was within 2km of her house is sufficent evidence for the state to prove she was at CA's house. CA's subsequent statement that what DA meant was she was near his house is nonsensical and irrelevant. He's a pathological liar out to save his own neck.

 

[Knitpicker]

Sorry I'm confused.

DA texted CXA to say "I'm outside your house". Not I'm nearly at your house or I'm passing by your house. I'm at your house. That statement plus metadata from her phone showing she was within 2km of her house is sufficent evidence for the state to prove she was at CA's house. CA's subsequent statement that what DA meant was she was near his house is nonsensical and irrelevant. He's a pathological liar out to save his own neck.

OK somehow I am not being clear I guess.
We know what CHarlie said.
We know what the text said.

The issue is where did Donna leave from to go to CA’s house.

Wendi had said to Isom during the interview that her parents are in Coral Springs,
Wendi has said on the stand that the day of the murder her parents were in Coral Springs.
Isom was asked ByGeogia on the stand where they lived.
he also said Coral Springs.
I was just stating that I am not convinced that Donna left her condo at S Beach to either go to or “pass” Charlies house.
Maybe do a search on google maps so you can see what I’m trying to point out.

 

[Zedzded]

I was just stating that I am not convinced that Donna left her condo at S Beach to either go to or “pass” Charlies house.

I'm still confused. You're not convinced DA went to CA's house? She texted him to say she was outside?

 

[amicuscurie]

When has DA said that CA told her about the extortion?

She hasn’t. HE testified at trial that he has to tell her about the extortion a few months after the murder when he needed her to start writing checks to Katie.

 

[amicuscurie]

I'm still confused. You're not convinced DA went to CA's house? She texted him to say she was outside?

The question seems to be not whether she stopped at Charlie’s, but rather which house she left from, the one in Coral Springs or the rental in Miami Beach. I don’t think it matters, because stopping at Charlie’s to me is suspicious enough, but for what it’s worth, I think it was the one in Miami Beach.

I also think that the parties involved might know that it looks suspicious for Wendi to have moved to Miami Beach immediately after the murder, and into a place Harvey had rented just a couple of months prior to the murder, if that is indeed what happened. It might seem like a better idea hypothetically for Wendi to leave the impression she went to Coral Springs. But I am almost certain she told Isom that if it was a Friday, her parents would probably be in Miami Beach. I also remember hearing somewhere that the children were enrolled in school in Miami Beach by the end of August, 2014, only a month after the murder.

I am sure those school records can be obtained. I hope the state has looked into where she lived with her parents and the boys during the year after the murder.

 

[Zedzded]

The question seems to be which house she left, the one in Coral Springs or the rental in Miami Beach. I don’t think it matters, and I think it was the one in Miami Beach.

Yeah why would it matter? She could have come from DisneyLand, it's irrelevant.

 

[Zedzded]

I also remember hearing somewhere that the children were enrolled in school in Miami Beach by the end of August, 2014, only a month after the murder.

I wonder if any of the Adelson's phones or computers would have internet search history relating to schools in Miami. And those searches were before the murder.

 

[watergirl62]

I was curious about the search warrant wanting data as far back as June 2012. The nearest significant event I found near that date was from the divorce documents in July 2012 when Wendy raided the safety deposit box which contained the Holocaust ring.

Sorry the screenshot is low res but it's at 19:30 in the video.

 

[Knitpicker]

Yeah why would it matter? She could have come from DisneyLand, it's irrelevant.

Only because of Charlies testimony on the stand, He stated his mother was passing by on the way to Tallahassee.that indicates she was leaving from Miami. If they left from Coral Springs he is implicating her.
And lying for her. Because he denied a money drop off.

 

[Knitpicker]

Just as a FYI, i was listening to the trial for Hannah Gutierrez yesterday and they had a witness explaining Cellebrite. It is worth listening. It’s a bit over my head but was interesting.

 

[Knitpicker]

I was curious about the search warrant wanting data as far back as June 2012. The nearest significant event I found near that date was from the divorce documents in July 2012 when Wendy raided the safety deposit box which contained the Holocaust ring.

Sorry the screenshot is low res but it's at 19:30 in the video.

That is very confusing.
She got the ring prior to his proposal to her?
So the uncle gave him the ring in anticipation of proposal with it , yet he did not propose to her with it?
So how did she get the ring?

The whole thing is crazy because first off, how could WA’s parents INSIST that he propose to her with her grandmothers ring? How did they know when he would propose or that he would propose at all?
Sounds crazy.
IF this were true, and he knew her parents INSISTED she get proposed to (none of the business) with her grandmothers ring,(and he did—I understand thats the ring she wore to the wedding), the writing was already on the wall of what he was up against.

Still, I ask how did she have that ring in her posession?

 

[Knitpicker]

I wonder if any of the Adelson's phones or computers would have internet search history relating to schools in Miami. And those searches were before the murder.

My understanding is that she looked into Donna Klein private school in Boca after the murder. That is 20 minutes from her home in Coral Springs. She also had a job in Boca with Gary Cohen, an attorney that specializes in Personal injury. That is what I understood.
Also, if you remember, she was considering whether to hold Ben back a year and not start Kindergarten. So if Ben were still in preK, it would not have mattered whether he started end of August.
Charlie did say that Wendi met Dave on line to register Ben for school.
So it does point to Miami. But Charlie could by lying about that.

 

[Knitpicker]

The question seems to be not whether she stopped at Charlie’s, but rather which house she left from, the one in Coral Springs or the rental in Miami Beach. I don’t think it matters, because stopping at Charlie’s to me is suspicious enough, but for what it’s worth, I think it was the one in Miami Beach.

I also think that the parties involved might know that it looks suspicious for Wendi to have moved to Miami Beach immediately after the murder, and into a place Harvey had rented just a couple of months prior to the murder, if that is indeed what happened. It might seem like a better idea hypothetically for Wendi to leave the impression she went to Coral Springs. But I am almost certain she told Isom that if it was a Friday, her parents would probably be in Miami Beach. I also remember hearing somewhere that the children were enrolled in school in Miami Beach by the end of August, 2014, only a month after the murder.

I am sure those school records can be obtained. I hope the state has looked into where she lived with her parents and the boys during the year after the murder.

It could be Wendi spoke truthfully to Isom when he asked “where’s your family at”, and then later Wendi may have corrected herself, not because its the truth, but because she knows it was an unusual day, and even though her parents WOULD be in Miami on Friday, in this instance-the night before the murder, they weren’t.
Interesting we have not had info on handset location for Donna on the day of the murder,
I am suspecting it is because it is information for Donnas trial and wasn’t important for the other trials.

So it will be interesting to see the phone log of Donnas calls.
If they had Wendi’s they had Donnas.

As I said, wendi stated on the stand that she went to Coral Springs after the murder, when asked.
Why would she not say “Miami” if that were the case?

 

[Knitpicker]

I'm still confused. You're not convinced DA went to CA's house? She texted him to say she was outside?

Not sure what the confusion is.
Yes she went to his house. (Most believe this)
Charlie denied it and said she was just passing by his house on the way up North.
I am saying to be passing by would mean she was coming from s Beach.
I believe Charlie was trying to cover for her in 2 ways
1. Saying she was just passing by on the highway (didnt go to his house)
2. Inferring that they were coming from S Beach -(He would have to say this to make them pass by)
If they left from Coral Springs, they would not be passing by, they would be going out of their way.

Some people have said it’s been proven they left from S Beach.
I don’t think we have any evidence so maybe some people have some inside knowledge that hasn’t been made public.