Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

[layer]

100 yards of where the girls were found does not include the trails. It’s private property.

Correct, it doesn't include the bridge, the cemetery, the trails, the private road, or any structure. But... and I know it doesn't fit with anyone's theory of the case... it's not all private property. A section of Deer Creek would likely fall within the 100 yards.

Source

 

[layer]

A closeup on a satellite image from 2-2012 might give a better idea of the area involved.

 

[sunshineray]

Points 42 and 43 of Franks III state:
42. Additionally, the defense has reviewed all disvovery provided by the State of Indiana and has not yet found a single interview of any of the people whose phones, according to geofencing data, were found the afternoon of February 13 [sic] 2024. moving in or around the location where the bodies were ultinately found the following day at times when the murders would have taken place, according to law enforcement timelines.
43. The defense did locate very limited background information concerning one of the owners of one of the phones but did not locate any narrative reports, interviews, or notes concerning the owner of the phone.

And again, IMO, language is everything (especially where this defense is concerned). 42 states, has not yet found a single interview and then 43 kind of contradicts (but doesn't do it outright) by saying, it did find limited (again a possiblly subjective word in the context) background info concerning one person with a phone.

Now if there's 3 phones, the two others could be burners with no information but that they pinged the tower? Maybe.

The prosecution has said others were involved. I'm of the mind that then does not mean RA is not the killer of Libby and Abby. Could others involved somehow have been there within 100 yards with a phone too? Maybe. Does that mean RA is not the killer? No.
AJMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Correct, it doesn't include the bridge, the cemetery, the trails, the private road, or any structure. But... and I know it doesn't fit with anyone's theory of the case... it's not all private property. A section of Deer Creek would likely fall within the 100 yards.

Source

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

The two teen girls were last seen by family around 1 p.m. Monday when they dropped them off near theMononHigh Bridge, an abandoned railroad bridge.

www.wrtv.com

 

[layer]

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

The two teen girls were last seen by family around 1 p.m. Monday when they dropped them off near theMononHigh Bridge, an abandoned railroad bridge.

www.wrtv.com

See, I still have no idea where the exact location is. I wonder where they got the info for that map?

 

[snooptroop88]

You know what I haven't seen on here yet is about the bullet they found at the scene. I remember seeing someone interviewed regarding that bullet, and he noted that for a short period of time, the crime scene was unsecured. It was opened back up, and I think it was like a day or a day and a half before it was secured again. And if memory serves me correctly, the bullet (which was "sort of" buried) was recovered after the resecuring of the crime scene. Has anyone else seen or heard this? Because to me, that seems like it's going to be potentially problematic for the P, and that's why I'm hoping they have other significant evidence beyond that bullet. Based on what I'm seeing, I think they definitely do have a lot of other circumstantial evidence, a lot of it strong, but I'd feel a lot more confident in the case against RA if there were DNA. I've been trying to keep up with everything on this thread, it's such a busy thread, and I try to read through as much as I can to follow along to the extent that I can. Maybe this thing about the bullet's already in here somewhere.

 

[snooptroop88]

I disagree.

RA places himself on the trail, and provided his phone identifiers within a day or so of the crime - his unique identifier was recorded in the tip narrative and he said he had the phone with him and used it on the trails. If that phone wasn't found in the geofence warrant, in that 5 hour window the defence suggests, it is incriminating,

Totally agreed on this. I'm wondering if he had a handheld gps system with him and that's what the "stock ticker" was supposed to be. Whatever about the stock ticker, though, if his phone's not there, that speaks volumes. Am holding my breath for the cellular data at the trial.

 

[mrjitty]

100 yards of where the girls were found does not include the trails. It’s private property.

I don't believe the geofence warrant is only for within 100 yards of the victims - the defence is rather simply referring to 3 phones that were in that area according to someone who drew a map relating to the data

As LE knew the girls were abducted from the bridge, i am sure that have a geofence warrant for a much larger area taking in both crime scenes at least.

So basically if RA's phone was shown on the bridge, but not within 100m of the victims final location - that would be powerful evidence exonerating him. Instead I believe his phone is not shown on the trails at all.

 

[mrjitty]

See, I still have no idea where the exact location is. I wonder where they got the info for that map?

They got the data from the cellphone company pursuant to the warrant, and plotted phones that came close to where the victims were found. The defence does not say there were no other phones tracked.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm not following how his phone not being found is incriminating. Not trying to argue....I'm trying to understand your point.

MY phone wasn't found either....is that also incriminating?

You didn't say you were on the trails that day with your phone.

 

[mrjitty]

RA said he was looking at a stock ticker, so his phone number, linked to him via the DD interview, should have been on the trail at some point between noon and 4pm. If it wasn't, it would prove he's lying about being on his phone. Or, if it was on the trail but turned off during the murders, or was stationary the entire time, that would look suspicious. But I'm not convinced there even is any data from the trails at all, which is concerning. I think RA's phone data will be very significant, no matter if it was on or off. JMO. It could work for or against him, especially if the 3rd phone from the CS was a burner. JMO.

RSBM

Why would there not be data from the trails/bridge? That is part of the crime scene.

The defence say someone took data from the geofence warrant and plotted 3 phones on a map that were within 60-100 meters of the victims. I presume that didn't just have data for only 3 phones. Those were the only 3 that were mapped.

This is why we have to be careful about the incomplete picture the defence like to paint

 

[FrostedGlass]

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

The two teen girls were last seen by family around 1 p.m. Monday when they dropped them off near theMononHigh Bridge, an abandoned railroad bridge.

www.wrtv.com

Great post! I've had a version of that map for years but didn't save the link to it.

That location given on the map is the very reason we had so much conversation about the location of the bodies. Then, add to that the interview of the Robinson woman, where it was said the crime scene was about a football field away from her back door.

The information that was given us made absolutely no sense and it led to all kinds of theories.
MOO

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

The two teen girls were last seen by family around 1 p.m. Monday when they dropped them off near theMononHigh Bridge, an abandoned railroad bridge.

www.wrtv.com

Community shaken, saddened by bodies found in Delphi

A small Carroll County community is stunned by the discovery of two bodies, hours after two teenage girls were reported missing.

www.wthr.com

The crime scene is about the length of a football field from Robinson’s back door.

 

[TL4S]

Or it could flip and do a 360 degree, and IF it were in fact shown to be RA's phone within that 60-100 yards of the area in question.... the prosecution might be screaming, yes?

All MOO.

Exactly. The P has also not yet shown evidence that RA's phone was turned off, or not on the trails at any time that afternoon. They used that very evidence against Kohberger in Idaho, pointing out how the phone being off was itself incriminating behavior.

Imo, in this case, the geofence map not including RA's phone is neither here nor there without more data specific to RA's phone. Where was it, was it moving, was it on or off, was it where RA said he was using it, etc.

Neither the D or P are using RA's phone data so far in their motions, which makes it impossible to know what's significant, imo. Either side could be saving it for a later motion, or trial. Jmo.

For instance, the geofence seems to start at 12:39 (or was is 12:29?). RA said he was there at noon. So, was his phone on the trail before 12:39? Was it moving toward his home at 1:30? Or, was it on the trail at 1:45, then turned off? Was it off the entire afternoon, right when RA said he was using it on the trail? I think this will be important evidence at trial, either way.

 

[susane7]

RSBM

Why would there not be data from the trails/bridge? That is part of the crime scene.

The defence say someone took data from the geofence warrant and plotted 3 phones on a map that were within 60-100 meters of the victims. I presume that didn't just have data for only 3 phones. Those were the only 3 that were mapped.

This is why we have to be careful about the incomplete picture the defence like to paint

I agree. RA, apparently, first said he was wathcing fish and then in the 2022 interview change to "I was watching stock tickers on my phone". If they don't having info matching that phone, it means that he lied about being on his phone. So what else he did lie about in that interview?

Exculpatory it would be if he was telling the truth about being on his phone and the phone data show how he left the trails at 1:30 for example.

 

[FrostedGlass]

@twall I wonder what this is?

03/15/2024

Automated ENotice Issued to Parties Order Issued ---- 3/14/2024 : Andrew Joseph Baldwin;Bradley Anthony Rozzi;Nicholas Charles McLeland;James David Luttrull Order Issued ---- 3/14/2024 : Andrew Joseph Baldwin;Bradley Anthony Rozzi;Nicholas Charles McLeland;James David Luttrull

 

[TL4S]

I agree. RA, apparently, first said he was wathcing fish and then in the 2022 interview change to "I was watching stock tickers on my phone". If they don't having info matching that phone, it means that he lied about being on his phone. So what else he did lie about in that interview?

Exculpatory it would be if he was telling the truth about being on his phone and the phone data show how he left the trails at 1:30 for example.

One note, I believe he said he was on his stock ticker during his interview with DD in Feb 2017. The watching fish comment was his later interview. I've always wondered if LE told him they had someone who saw him on the platform of the bridge, which is why he then said that about the fish...

This is one of the key pieces of evidence, imo. To overlay it with RA's phone data could be significant, unless the phone data is strong the other way. Jmo.

 

[layer]

Great post! I've had a version of that map for years but didn't save the link to it.

That location given on the map is the very reason we had so much conversation about the location of the bodies. Then, add to that the interview of the Robinson woman, where it was said the crime scene was about a football field away from her back door.

The information that was given us made absolutely no sense and it led to all kinds of theories.
MOO

View attachment 490670

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

The two teen girls were last seen by family around 1 p.m. Monday when they dropped them off near theMononHigh Bridge, an abandoned railroad bridge.

www.wrtv.com

Community shaken, saddened by bodies found in Delphi

A small Carroll County community is stunned by the discovery of two bodies, hours after two teenage girls were reported missing.

www.wthr.com

The thing that puzzles me about that map is that it appears in an article from Feb 14, 2017 - last updated Oct 30, 2022, but the map has this in the data:

522,913 views
Published on October 7, 2023

It's just odd, all the way around...

 

[girlhasnoname]

The State has no obligation to share any of their evidence against RA with the public, especially phone data. They gave enough information for the PCA and the SW. They are not required to, nor should they, disclose more. Plus there is also a gag order in place that they've respected unlike the Defense who wants to get information out to help craft a narrative any way they can before the trial even begins.

Evil Odinists, sacrificial killings, targeted killings of LE personnel; conspiracies from high level LE (local, state and FBI) all colluding to frame some random innocent man 5+ years later??? It makes no sense to me.

It really is this simple, the State has guarded their case/theory just like any other Prosecutor does. Just because the behavior of this Defense is so off the walls doesn't mean the Prosecution doesn't have enough or more than circumstantial evidence to convict RA IMO. We don't know the extent of the State's evidence period.

Confessions are just one of the things that juries love and it appears there are quite a few made by RA, not counting that HE places himself at the very location at the time of the murders in almost exact clothing identified by the witnesses and Libby's video in Oct 2022. I mean, that's a lot to work with and far from circumstantial.

Always MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

The thing that puzzles me about that map is that it appears in an article from Feb 14, 2017 - last updated Oct 30, 2022, but the map has this in the data:

It's just odd, all the way around...

I don't know how to get that info from that map; I took the screen cap of a similar version of the map was on 04/04/2021. I wonder if the original version of the story can be found by the wayback app.

 

[FromGermany1]

You know what I haven't seen on here yet is about the bullet they found at the scene. I remember seeing someone interviewed regarding that bullet, and he noted that for a short period of time, the crime scene was unsecured. It was opened back up, and I think it was like a day or a day and a half before it was secured again. And if memory serves me correctly, the bullet (which was "sort of" buried) was recovered after the resecuring of the crime scene. Has anyone else seen or heard this? Because to me, that seems like it's going to be potentially problematic for the P, and that's why I'm hoping they have other significant evidence beyond that bullet. Based on what I'm seeing, I think they definitely do have a lot of other circumstantial evidence, a lot of it strong, but I'd feel a lot more confident in the case against RA if there were DNA. I've been trying to keep up with everything on this thread, it's such a busy thread, and I try to read through as much as I can to follow along to the extent that I can. Maybe this thing about the bullet's already in here somewhere.

RL would be the first one, I would think of, who may have gone to the CS, when it wasn't secured for a short time ..... Who else would have dared to go there except the owner of the property? MOO