Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[susiQ]

I'm wondering why people think RA suddenly began confessing to all these people after keeping it secret all those years. If it was a sudden attack of conscience, what brought that on? And where did it go?

I’m guessing it was a “sudden attack” of coercion and intimidation with a side of psychotropic drugs for good measure. As far as I’m concerned it all stinks right from recording over interviews of key figures in the week following the savage murders, to the drafting of the PCA. Then we have the prison riffraff, from the bottom up, Sgt Jones and Sgt Robinson (the Odinist guards) right up to Warden Galilpeau.

I find it strange that most are quite comfortable calling the D liars (two respected attorneys, at least outside of WS threads), but are so very willing to believe someone like Galipeau and his Odinist <modsswap - guards> Curious at best. All MOO.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I’m guessing it was a “sudden attack” of coercion and intimidation with a side of psychotropic drugs for good measure. As far as I’m concerned it all stinks right from recording over interviews of key figures in the week following the savage murders, to the drafting of the PCA. Then we have the prison riffraff, from the bottom up, Sgt Jones and Sgt Robinson (the Odinist guards) right up to Warden Galilpeau.

I find it strange that most are quite comfortable calling the D liars (two respected attorneys, at least outside of WS threads), but are so very willing to believe someone like Galipeau and his Odinist <modswap - guards>. Curious at best. All MOO.

Yeah, I'd say RA was lucky to leave Westville breathing. Thank goodness his attorney's kept his alleged abuse in the spotlight. If only Richard (Bucky) Canada had been given them in 2021.

 

[susiQ]

Yeah, I'd say RA was lucky to leave Westville breathing. Thank goodness his attorney's kept his alleged abuse in the spotlight. If only Richard (Bucky) Canada had been given them in 2021.

Agree 100%! I believe the guard’s goal was for him to give up and commit suicide given the abominable treatment he was receiving. I suspect they came close to accomplishing their goal. It also appears there are those that would see no problem with that because they have convicted him already. JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Totally agreed, but didn't they have two other people confess to this too? And they're not on trial, so even P and LE believe there can be false/erroneous confessions, or confessions that are lacking or misleading. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this two other people/parties, but I believe that's the case. Checking now here, too. EF was one, who's the other? I'm still unable to locate the name of that other person, but the idea would remain the same, LE gets false confessions on high profile cases often. And RA's in prison under massive stress, if the confessions alone were all P had, I doubt the case would have gone to trial at all. It'll be a cumulative effect on the evidence if they get a conviction.

Agree it will be the totality of the evidence that will do RA in. I could list them all again, but I've stated them ad nauseam on the threads since RA was arrested and the PCA was released.

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm wondering why people think RA suddenly began confessing to all these people after keeping it secret all those years. If it was a sudden attack of conscience, what brought that on? And where did it go?

Could be as simple as his wife asked him for the truth. “Rick, is that you in the picture on the bridge?”

Then his lawyers found out about this conversation and came up with a new version. Rick was out of his mind, living in POW conditions, and the scary Odinism guards put him up to it.

Complete with pics of a dazed RA, in chains and slobber on his shirt.

jmo

 

[susane7]

I agree, who knows for sure. Did TMS explain how they “investigated” the rumour? Both they and BM seem to have a connection to individuals feeding them info. Who has the better source?? Speaking for myself only, the fact that the PCA states it was found “between Abby and Libby” doesn’t carry a whole lot of weight IF Liggett lied about other things in the PCA which the Defense claim.

As you say, we will only know things for a certainty once the trial begins, or at least that’s our hope. JMHO

No but I guess Murder Sheet "investigated" the rumors through their source. I think if the bullet was found days later we would already know that through the defense filings.

 

[Salah11]

By his own admissions he was present that afternoon on that bridge moments before the girls arrived to walk across it.


We have an obese man dressed identical to RA walking across that bridge towards the girls in picture.

Coincidence I think not

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yeah, I'd say RA was lucky to leave Westville breathing. Thank goodness his attorney's kept his alleged abuse in the spotlight. If only Richard (Bucky) Canada had been given them in 2021.

If' someone involved in the IDOC/LE wanted RA gone, it would have happened. Plenty of time and obscure places where no video was running; ie shower, rec time, transport etc.

I do believe RA has stated he's unhappy and being mistreated now in Washburn as well, and filed another Transfer Motion through S&L.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

No but I guess Murder Sheet "investigated" the rumors through their source. I think if the bullet was found days later we would already know that through the defense filings.

Totally agreed, if the D has solid evidence of mishandling or misappropriate COC on that bullet, that in and of itself would have helped in the Motion for Franks. They definitely would have cited that as a reason to squash the SW.

It's been the so called SM pseudo journalists/book writers that have reported on that I believe, not even the D.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

No but I guess Murder Sheet "investigated" the rumors through their source. I think if the bullet was found days later we would already know that through the defense filings.

MOO, if the bullet was found AFTER the crime scene was first released, and there is no SOLID chain of custody for said bullet, it is a nothing burger. The “science” itself on an unspent bullet is not solid, IMO. As well, members are always commenting how the P has so much evidence on RA THEY are keeping to themselves, how do they know what the D is keeping to themselves?

Another concern I have now, is JG denying funds for any expert witnesses for the D. How does that give RA a robust defence? Regardless that he is indigent, he deserves that. It is not a level playing field AT ALL now. P gets 2.1 million to prosecute RA and has the CCS and ISP working for him out of their own budget too. No, this is not going to be a fair trial, not by a long shot. JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

No matter how one feels about Richard Allen, there's something that will come out that Prosecutor McLeland does not want the public to see. I'm stretching to imagine what that might be; G's stuff and the CO's things are already public knowledge and have been admitted to.
I really want to know what RA did to deserve to be tased twice.
I really want to know Item #5 in the list below.
MOO

State Motion for PO for DOC evidence.pdf

drive.google.com

STATE’S MOTION TO ENTER PROTECTIVE ORDER FOR EVIDENCE GATHERED

FROM THE INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION
Now comes the State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney, Nicholas C. McLeland, and
respectfully requests the Court to enter a protective order over all evidence and testimony
subpoenaed from the Indiana Department of Correction (the “IDOC”). The State asks the Court
to consider limiting the questioning of all IDOC staff to their direct interaction with the
Defendant. The State has an articulable interest to ensure the safety and security of its prison
system and the policies and procedures that govern this outside agency.

The Indiana Department of Correction and its employees are not a party to this case. The
IDOC was court ordered to house Richard Allen as a safekeeper. The IDOC received the
safekeeping order and immediately assisted the State by placing the Defendant at Westville
Correctional Facility. The time that Defendant spent at Westville Correctional Facility is not
relevant to this proceeding except in his own actions and statements while being housed in that
facility. Westville staff and the innerworkings of the Indiana Department of Correction are
outside the scope of this proceeding. The State would ask the Court to consider the following:
1. That the State of Indiana filed 2 Counts of Murder against the Defendant on
October 28th, 2023, under I.C. 35-42-1-1(2).
2. That the Defendant has been housed in the Indiana Department of Correction
during the pendency of this case for safekeeping.
3. That Trial Rule 26(C) permits the court to protect against oppression, undue
burden and expense by requiring that discovery be conducted “on specified terms
and conditions.”
4. That the Indiana Department of Correction has cooperated with this Court’s

Filed: 3/17/2024 10:59 AM
Carroll Circuit Court
Carroll County, Indiana

orders and has become an interested non-party in this proceeding.
5. That there are articulable concerns based on prior behavior that Defense counsel
will release information to the media that could publicly embarrass the IDOC or
further place its employees in danger or subject to ridicule or harassment.
6. That there are permissible ways to conduct depositions that allow the evidence to
be protected from the media, under Trial Rule 26(C).
7. That Trial Rule 26(B)(1) limits discovery to matters “relevant to the subject
matter involved in the pending action” including the claims and defenses of the
parties.
8. That Defense counsel has not made a record as to what evidence they plan to
elicit from the Indiana Department of Correction that would be admissible
evidence for the underlying charges.
9. That there is potential that any probative value that may be gained by unrestrained
subject matter depositions is outweighed by the prejudicial effect on the witnesses
and the State.
Wherefore, now comes the State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney, Nicholas C
McLeland, and files their request for a protective order and would ask the Court to consider the
same and for all other just and proper relief in the premises.

Nicholas C. McLeland

 

[layer]

No matter how one feels about Richard Allen, there's something that will come out that Prosecutor McLeland does not want the public to see. I'm stretching to imagine what that might be; G's stuff and the CO's things are already public knowledge and have been admitted to.
I really want to know what RA did to deserve to be tased twice.
I really want to know Item #5 in the list below.
MOO

State Motion for PO for DOC evidence.pdf

drive.google.com

STATE’S MOTION TO ENTER PROTECTIVE ORDER FOR EVIDENCE GATHERED

FROM THE INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION
Now comes the State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney, Nicholas C. McLeland, and
respectfully requests the Court to enter a protective order over all evidence and testimony
subpoenaed from the Indiana Department of Correction (the “IDOC”). The State asks the Court
to consider limiting the questioning of all IDOC staff to their direct interaction with the
Defendant. The State has an articulable interest to ensure the safety and security of its prison
system and the policies and procedures that govern this outside agency.

The Indiana Department of Correction and its employees are not a party to this case. The
IDOC was court ordered to house Richard Allen as a safekeeper. The IDOC received the
safekeeping order and immediately assisted the State by placing the Defendant at Westville
Correctional Facility. The time that Defendant spent at Westville Correctional Facility is not
relevant to this proceeding except in his own actions and statements while being housed in that
facility. Westville staff and the innerworkings of the Indiana Department of Correction are
outside the scope of this proceeding. The State would ask the Court to consider the following:
1. That the State of Indiana filed 2 Counts of Murder against the Defendant on
October 28th, 2023, under I.C. 35-42-1-1(2).
2. That the Defendant has been housed in the Indiana Department of Correction
during the pendency of this case for safekeeping.
3. That Trial Rule 26(C) permits the court to protect against oppression, undue
burden and expense by requiring that discovery be conducted “on specified terms
and conditions.”
4. That the Indiana Department of Correction has cooperated with this Court’s

Filed: 3/17/2024 10:59 AM
Carroll Circuit Court
Carroll County, Indiana

orders and has become an interested non-party in this proceeding.
5. That there are articulable concerns based on prior behavior that Defense counsel
will release information to the media that could publicly embarrass the IDOC or
further place its employees in danger or subject to ridicule or harassment.
6. That there are permissible ways to conduct depositions that allow the evidence to
be protected from the media, under Trial Rule 26(C).
7. That Trial Rule 26(B)(1) limits discovery to matters “relevant to the subject
matter involved in the pending action” including the claims and defenses of the
parties.
8. That Defense counsel has not made a record as to what evidence they plan to
elicit from the Indiana Department of Correction that would be admissible
evidence for the underlying charges.
9. That there is potential that any probative value that may be gained by unrestrained
subject matter depositions is outweighed by the prejudicial effect on the witnesses
and the State.
Wherefore, now comes the State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney, Nicholas C
McLeland, and files their request for a protective order and would ask the Court to consider the
same and for all other just and proper relief in the premises.

Nicholas C. McLeland

That there are articulable concerns based on prior behavior that Defense counsel
will release information to the media that could publicly embarrass the IDOC

Seriously???

 

[susiQ]

No matter how one feels about Richard Allen, there's something that will come out that Prosecutor McLeland does not want the public to see. I'm stretching to imagine what that might be; G's stuff and the CO's things are already public knowledge and have been admitted to.
I really want to know what RA did to deserve to be tased twice.
I really want to know Item #5 in the list below.
MOO

State Motion for PO for DOC evidence.pdf

drive.google.com

STATE’S MOTION TO ENTER PROTECTIVE ORDER FOR EVIDENCE GATHERED

FROM THE INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION
Now comes the State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney, Nicholas C. McLeland, and
respectfully requests the Court to enter a protective order over all evidence and testimony
subpoenaed from the Indiana Department of Correction (the “IDOC”). The State asks the Court
to consider limiting the questioning of all IDOC staff to their direct interaction with the
Defendant. The State has an articulable interest to ensure the safety and security of its prison
system and the policies and procedures that govern this outside agency.

The Indiana Department of Correction and its employees are not a party to this case. The
IDOC was court ordered to house Richard Allen as a safekeeper. The IDOC received the
safekeeping order and immediately assisted the State by placing the Defendant at Westville
Correctional Facility. The time that Defendant spent at Westville Correctional Facility is not
relevant to this proceeding except in his own actions and statements while being housed in that
facility. Westville staff and the innerworkings of the Indiana Department of Correction are
outside the scope of this proceeding. The State would ask the Court to consider the following:
1. That the State of Indiana filed 2 Counts of Murder against the Defendant on
October 28th, 2023, under I.C. 35-42-1-1(2).
2. That the Defendant has been housed in the Indiana Department of Correction
during the pendency of this case for safekeeping.
3. That Trial Rule 26(C) permits the court to protect against oppression, undue
burden and expense by requiring that discovery be conducted “on specified terms
and conditions.”
4. That the Indiana Department of Correction has cooperated with this Court’s

Filed: 3/17/2024 10:59 AM
Carroll Circuit Court
Carroll County, Indiana

orders and has become an interested non-party in this proceeding.
5. That there are articulable concerns based on prior behavior that Defense counsel
will release information to the media that could publicly embarrass the IDOC or
further place its employees in danger or subject to ridicule or harassment.
6. That there are permissible ways to conduct depositions that allow the evidence to
be protected from the media, under Trial Rule 26(C).
7. That Trial Rule 26(B)(1) limits discovery to matters “relevant to the subject
matter involved in the pending action” including the claims and defenses of the
parties.
8. That Defense counsel has not made a record as to what evidence they plan to
elicit from the Indiana Department of Correction that would be admissible
evidence for the underlying charges.
9. That there is potential that any probative value that may be gained by unrestrained
subject matter depositions is outweighed by the prejudicial effect on the witnesses
and the State.
Wherefore, now comes the State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney, Nicholas C
McLeland, and files their request for a protective order and would ask the Court to consider the
same and for all other just and proper relief in the premises.

Nicholas C. McLeland

After checking out @Caylee Advocate post mentioning Richard (Bucky) Canada, I dare say the IDOC has lots they don’t want made public. It’s not a stretch to believe these Odinist <modswap - guards> had it in for RA and why. The bigger question is “why would Nick want to protect them?”
All MOO.

 

[Jade]

I'm wondering why people think RA suddenly began confessing to all these people after keeping it secret all those years. If it was a sudden attack of conscience, what brought that on? And where did it go?

Why would he confess when he was still getting away with it?


The defense wants no confessions, too boring, they want to build up their resume for future paid appearances and so forth with RA and their lurid details and musings as the means, imo.





imo

 

[girlhasnoname]

WBIW just announced promotion of Sgt. Jerry Holeman to Lieutenant.

This helps confirm in my mind the fact that Holeman isn't some lying piece of dog doo that the Franks Memo portrays. I personally can't wait for him to take the stand against RA at trial. JMO

Indiana State Police announces promotion of F/Sgt. Jerry Holeman to lieutenant - WBIW

 

[susiQ]

I have a question for our verified legal members, @AugustWest @kae27 . If NM, TL, JH and BH belonged to the same “brotherhood” (not Odinism), would this be considered a conflict of interest? If this type of association is regarded as a conflict of interest, would NM and others be required to recuse themselves from RA’s case? Very curious about this.

 

[girlhasnoname]

No matter how one feels about Richard Allen, there's something that will come out that Prosecutor McLeland does not want the public to see. I'm stretching to imagine what that might be; G's stuff and the CO's things are already public knowledge and have been admitted to.
I really want to know what RA did to deserve to be tased twice.
I really want to know Item #5 in the list below.
MOO

State Motion for PO for DOC evidence.pdf

drive.google.com

STATE’S MOTION TO ENTER PROTECTIVE ORDER FOR EVIDENCE GATHERED

FROM THE INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION
Now comes the State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney, Nicholas C. McLeland, and
respectfully requests the Court to enter a protective order over all evidence and testimony
subpoenaed from the Indiana Department of Correction (the “IDOC”). The State asks the Court
to consider limiting the questioning of all IDOC staff to their direct interaction with the
Defendant. The State has an articulable interest to ensure the safety and security of its prison
system and the policies and procedures that govern this outside agency.

The Indiana Department of Correction and its employees are not a party to this case. The
IDOC was court ordered to house Richard Allen as a safekeeper. The IDOC received the
safekeeping order and immediately assisted the State by placing the Defendant at Westville
Correctional Facility. The time that Defendant spent at Westville Correctional Facility is not
relevant to this proceeding except in his own actions and statements while being housed in that
facility. Westville staff and the innerworkings of the Indiana Department of Correction are
outside the scope of this proceeding. The State would ask the Court to consider the following:
1. That the State of Indiana filed 2 Counts of Murder against the Defendant on
October 28th, 2023, under I.C. 35-42-1-1(2).
2. That the Defendant has been housed in the Indiana Department of Correction
during the pendency of this case for safekeeping.
3. That Trial Rule 26(C) permits the court to protect against oppression, undue
burden and expense by requiring that discovery be conducted “on specified terms
and conditions.”
4. That the Indiana Department of Correction has cooperated with this Court’s

Filed: 3/17/2024 10:59 AM
Carroll Circuit Court
Carroll County, Indiana

orders and has become an interested non-party in this proceeding.
5. That there are articulable concerns based on prior behavior that Defense counsel
will release information to the media that could publicly embarrass the IDOC or
further place its employees in danger or subject to ridicule or harassment.
6. That there are permissible ways to conduct depositions that allow the evidence to
be protected from the media, under Trial Rule 26(C).
7. That Trial Rule 26(B)(1) limits discovery to matters “relevant to the subject
matter involved in the pending action” including the claims and defenses of the
parties.
8. That Defense counsel has not made a record as to what evidence they plan to
elicit from the Indiana Department of Correction that would be admissible
evidence for the underlying charges.
9. That there is potential that any probative value that may be gained by unrestrained
subject matter depositions is outweighed by the prejudicial effect on the witnesses
and the State.
Wherefore, now comes the State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney, Nicholas C
McLeland, and files their request for a protective order and would ask the Court to consider the
same and for all other just and proper relief in the premises.

Nicholas C. McLeland

We will have those answers, if relevant, at trial. I agree the NMcL has every right to be concerned about the way the Defense handles confidential information looking at their track record. I would place everything under seal in this case going forward if he could.

Monday was a prime example of how some of the SM embarrassments associated with the Defense has been used to spread mistruths and who acted like complete unprofessionals in an effort to mislead public perception and to taint the jury pool IMO.

Depositions are not public information in an ongoing investigation as far as I know. Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

JMO

 

[susane7]

MOO, if the bullet was found AFTER the crime scene was first released, and there is no SOLID chain of custody for said bullet, it is a nothing burger. The “science” itself on an unspent bullet is not solid, IMO. As well, members are always commenting how the P has so much evidence on RA THEY are keeping to themselves, how do they know what the D is keeping to themselves?

Another concern I have now, is JG denying funds for any expert witnesses for the D. How does that give RA a robust defence? Regardless that he is indigent, he deserves that. It is not a level playing field AT ALL now. P gets 2.1 million to prosecute RA and has the CCS and ISP working for him out of their own budget too. No, this is not going to be a fair trial, not by a long shot. JMHO

In my opinion, because P seems really tight-lipped, unbombastic until now and are waiting for the trial and the defense seems bombastic and are trying to try the case on the media with exaggerations and things out of context. An example is how they filed the geofence motion and some people went crazy how it was good for RA but in their file for funds the defense tell that if they don't get the funds that they want, then the confessions, the bullet and geofence data shouldn't be admitted. Seems to me the geofence data isn't good for RA. I think they would have told us about the bullet because it will be one more thing to criticize the investigation (and in my opinion the investigation deserve criticism and has many flaws).

My system is very different (civil law), so for me it's very odd that the motions of both are public online before the trial.

 

[susiQ]

In my opinion, because P seems really tight-lipped, unbombastic until now and are waiting for the trial and the defense seems bombastic and are trying to try the case on the media with exaggerations and things out of context. An example is how they filed the geofence motion and some people went crazy how it was good for RA but in their file for funds the defense tell that if they don't get the funds that they want, then the confessions, the bullet and geofence data shouldn't be admitted. Seems to me the geofence data isn't good for RA. I think they would have told us about the bullet because it will be one more thing to criticize the investigation (and in my opinion the investigation deserve criticism and has many flaws).

My system is very different (civil law), so for me it's very odd that the motions of both are public online before the trial.

In my opinion, the D used the only option they had left, transparency, which the P doesn’t seem keen on.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

In my opinion, the D used the only option they had left, transparency, which the P doesn’t seem keen on.

It’s ineffictive. The public they are reaching won’t be sitting in the jury box. They are simply tainting the jury pool.
All their exaggerations and posturing to the public won’t make one lick of difference in the trial in front of a jury, where facts will be layed out and tested.