Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[susiQ]

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

Is this normal? To attempt blocking depositions? I have heard of certain evidence not being allowed to be presented in court, but depositions of correctional officers? Why would the state want these depositions blocked? One of the 3 mentioned is the Warden-is this the same warden who will be...

www.websleuths.com

@Gardenista
I understand NM is not “asking” her to deny depositions. But if she does, in my mind at least, she is reinforcing public opinion that she IS biased in favour of the P. Not a good look. JMHO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thanks to FG posting this link I just read, I understand now where the State's request is coming from #5, 6, 7. They're not trying to prevent the depositions, only asking that the information be limited in scope to RA and his stay at Westville and for the information gathered to be protected. The Defense doesn't have a strong record on that front.

Not unreasonable considering the level of animosity that derived from this case. It's been stated here often about how dangerous and high level this conspiracy coverup may be.

State Motion for PO for DOC evidence.pdf

MOO

 

[justtrish]

@AugustWest the other thread is closed so I'll respond here and @Ravenmoon summed up my thoughts better than I could have in post #943 in the previous thread. Thank you Ravenmoon for saying it so well.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I think it would be interesting or perhaps helpful for the Defense to depo the COs. Without considering or going into depth about the conspiracy, I still think it is possible that jurist may ask themselves, like they may ask in other cases way religious or spiritual beliefs are brought up as a potential factor, if the COs’ Odinists beliefs influence how they responded to RA or how RA responded.

Before the defense could even discuss the theory of Odinist being involved, RA said told them that Odinists had threatened him. I wonder why at that this time did he used that description to identify them rather than his COs? How often did the COs discuss Odinism openly in front of or with Allen and how does it impact their work? How, if at all, did it impact their respond to Libby’s and Abby’s murders and their attitudes and treatments towards the suspected perp? How, if at all, did their beliefs help them cope and how often did they perform practices in front of Allen or in the prison. For example, in many religions some may pray or meditate at work when experiencing emotional distress at work. Some Christians do the sign of the cross after witnessing or learning of a recent death. It could be something or anything along those lines.

As for RA, even without the guards meaning to or blaming or judging them, is it possible that RA was triggered by the patches or symbols because it reminded him of the ones he used to stage Libby’s and Abby’s crime scenes? Incidentally did the patches fill him with shame? Guilt? With the feelings of deserving of punishment or did he assume that the gig was up because people knew of the symbols he used and he thought the patches were worn to mock him?

Did he appropriate the symbols to throw the investigation off or to put scrutiny on the Odinist believers in town and now he thinks there mad? Did he once talk to and use information from another Odinist who may practice with the COs and he is afraid that person will somehow put two-and-two together if how they were used once the case goes public? Did he fear grow angry, hateful or violent towards his family in retaliation or that person could be the final link to absolutely prove to the jury he is guilty and should be found so and sentenced?

Speculation but perhaps learning about the COs faith in Odinism and how it impacts their interactions with Allen and vice versa may be yield helpful and enlightening data to both the defense and prosecutor. I wouldn’t even mind that the dep was sealed. I don’t need to read it but I do hope it is helpful in the trial to pursue of justice for Libby, Abby, their loved ones and communities.

 

[Emma Peel]

Order banning Richard Snay and David Noe from all State v RA Court proceedings.

 

[Emma Peel]

Order banning Richard Snay and David Noe from all State v RA Court proceedings.

View attachment 491843

Well earned, "gentlemen".

jmho

 

[AugustWest]

Well earned, "gentlemen".

jmho

I actually love this. There is no place for the behavior those two exhibited yesterday in a courtroom. I saw one of the "gentleman's" response yesterday; it sounded like a child's retelling of a primary school cafeteria fight. And he was proud of it. Really shameful behavior.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I think it would be interesting or perhaps helpful for the Defense to depo the COs. Without considering or going into depth about the conspiracy, I still think it is possible that jurist may ask themselves, like they may ask in other cases way religious or spiritual beliefs are brought up as a potential factor, if the COs’ Odinists beliefs influence how they responded to RA or how RA responded.

Before the defense could even discuss the theory of Odinist being involved, RA said told them that Odinists had threatened him. I wonder why at that this time did he used that description to identify them rather than his COs? How often did the COs discuss Odinism openly in front of or with Allen and how does it impact their work? How, if at all, did it impact their respond to Libby’s and Abby’s murders and their attitudes and treatments towards the suspected perp? How, if at all, did their beliefs help them cope and how often did they perform practices in front of Allen or in the prison. For example, in many religions some may pray or meditate at work when experiencing emotional distress at work. Some Christians do the sign of the cross after witnessing or learning of a recent death. It could be something or anything along those lines.

As for RA, even without the guards meaning to or blaming or judging them, is it possible that RA was triggered by the patches or symbols because it reminded him of the ones he used to stage Libby’s and Abby’s crime scenes? Incidentally did the patches fill him with shame? Guilt? With the feelings of deserving of punishment or did he assume that the gig was up because people knew of the symbols he used and he thought the patches were worn to mock him?

Did he appropriate the symbols to throw the investigation off or to put scrutiny on the Odinist believers in town and now he thinks there mad? Did he once talk to and use information from another Odinist who may practice with the COs and he is afraid that person will somehow put two-and-two together if how they were used once the case goes public? Did he fear grow angry, hateful or violent towards his family in retaliation or that person could be the final link to absolutely prove to the jury he is guilty and should be found so and sentenced?

Speculation but perhaps learning about the COs faith in Odinism and how it impacts their interactions with Allen and vice versa may be yield helpful and enlightening data to both the defense and prosecutor. I wouldn’t even mind that the dep was sealed. I don’t need to read it but I do hope it is helpful in the trial to pursue of justice for Libby, Abby, their loved ones and communities.

Edit for source:

What is Odinism, and is it connected to the Delphi murders?

Odinism is considered a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[justtrish]

Knowing exactly the type of person Snay is based on his history and what he posts and does online, why would he be on the witness list for this hearing anyway? So he shows up for court and gets in a fight, which isn't surprising and it actually predictable so again why was he on this list?

 

[Emma Peel]

I actually love this. There is no place for the behavior those two exhibited yesterday in a courtroom. I saw one of the "gentleman's" response yesterday; it sounded like a child's retelling of a primary school cafeteria fight. And he was proud of it. Really shameful behavior.

Me too.
And I'm hopeful this incident puts the youtubers as useful idiots issue to bed.
The entire Court needs to rise above such irrelevant distractions, move on, and move along.
(I expect today's Courts have at hand references/professional guidance re: managing and avoiding social media hiccups - especially for high profile cases.)

JMHO

 

[layer]

Me too.
And I'm hopeful this incident puts the youtubers as useful idiots issue to bed.

So the useful idiots weren't useful, just idiots.

 

[Emma Peel]

So the useful idiots weren't useful, just idiots.

I rest my case.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I think it would be interesting or perhaps helpful for the Defense to depo the COs. Without considering or going into depth about the conspiracy, I still think it is possible that jurist may ask themselves, like they may ask in other cases way religious or spiritual beliefs are brought up as a potential factor, if the COs’ Odinists beliefs influence how they responded to RA or how RA responded.

Before the defense could even discuss the theory of Odinist being involved, RA said told them that Odinists had threatened him. I wonder why at that this time did he used that description to identify them rather than his COs? How often did the COs discuss Odinism openly in front of or with Allen and how does it impact their work? How, if at all, did it impact their respond to Libby’s and Abby’s murders and their attitudes and treatments towards the suspected perp? How, if at all, did their beliefs help them cope and how often did they perform practices in front of Allen or in the prison. For example, in many religions some may pray or meditate at work when experiencing emotional distress at work. Some Christians do the sign of the cross after witnessing or learning of a recent death. It could be something or anything along those lines.

As for RA, even without the guards meaning to or blaming or judging them, is it possible that RA was triggered by the patches or symbols because it reminded him of the ones he used to stage Libby’s and Abby’s crime scenes? Incidentally did the patches fill him with shame? Guilt? With the feelings of deserving of punishment or did he assume that the gig was up because people knew of the symbols he used and he thought the patches were worn to mock him?

Did he appropriate the symbols to throw the investigation off or to put scrutiny on the Odinist believers in town and now he thinks there mad? Did he once talk to and use information from another Odinist who may practice with the COs and he is afraid that person will somehow put two-and-two together if how they were used once the case goes public? Did he fear grow angry, hateful or violent towards his family in retaliation or that person could be the final link to absolutely prove to the jury he is guilty and should be found so and sentenced?

Speculation but perhaps learning about the COs faith in Odinism and how it impacts their interactions with Allen and vice versa may be yield helpful and enlightening data to both the defense and prosecutor. I wouldn’t even mind that the dep was sealed. I don’t need to read it but I do hope it is helpful in the trial to pursue of justice for Libby, Abby, their loved ones and communities.

BBM
Just wanted to point out that the Franks didn’t make a clear statement that the RA said “the Odinists were threatening him”. They footnoted one statement then framed another as RA mumbling in somewhat incoherent fashion.
This doesn’t seem like fact. This would be a strong thing to state and it’s not stated strongly. It’s danced around. Page 22 of Franks Memo

I also want to remind that we have no evidence that there was any Odinist symbolism at the crime scene. We have people placing their opinions on sticks and blood splatter. Sticks could have been used to cover or even destroy the crime scene. IMO this just isn’t enough.

If Odinist symbols were at the crime scene then why didn’t we see any items regarding evidence of Odinism in any search warrants. Wouldn’t they be looking for runes in a search warrant if it tied to the crime scene? Why would RL even be looked at and other individuals without any Odinists ties?

The group named in the Franks are unsavory people practicing an uncommon religion. I think BH’s social media posts was what started the whole Odinist angle. Not necessarily the crime scene.
I haven’t seen any compelling evidence that any members of the investigated group have any ties to the crime.
AJMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Knowing exactly the type of person Snay is based on his history and what he posts and does online, why would he be on the witness list for this hearing anyway? So he shows up for court and gets in a fight, which isn't surprising and it actually predictable so again why was he on this list?

Water seeks its own level comes to mind. The fact that this is the caliber (no class middle age men acting like 8 yo bullies) of SM slogs involved to some extent or in part with the Defense in this case doesn't surprise me one bit.

Too bad the Court and the families of Abby & Libby have to be subjected to this kind of behavior. It's beyond repulsive, it's cruel, and disrespectful, but par for the course of the behaviors of many involved in this case.

I think we are seeing the Defense self imploding. They talk a big talk until it's time to produce evidence or results. We just might see some big changes coming.

JMO

EBM: corrected wording

 

[Tealgrove]

Water seeks its own level comes to mind. The fact that this is the caliber (no class middle age men acting like 8 yo bullies) of SM slogs involved to some extent or in part with the Defense in this case doesn't surprise me one bit.

Too bad the Court and the families of Abby & Libby have to be subjected to this kind of behavior. It's beyond repulsive, it's cruel, and disrespectful, but par for the course of the behaviors of many involved in this case.

I think we are seeing the Defense self imploding. They talk a big talk until it's time to produce evidence or results. We just might see some big changes coming.

JMO

EBM: corrected wording

One can only hope.

MOO