OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[CuriousCricket]

It is concerning because the standard for sealing court documents in Oklahoma is very high and this situation likely would not qualify. The only time entire cases are taken down from OSCN is during trial to prevent jurors from doing their own research. I am curious if these records are accessible in person at the courthouse. Even if they are, this is still concerning from government transparency and judicial authority standpoints.

What if the outcome is a double-homicide because of the custody battle? LE and the court system may be anticipating a very high profile crime and upcoming trial that may receive worldwide attention. With all these records posted all over the Internet, even a change of venue might not be enough to get 12 jurors who have not formed opinions on the case.

With these documents posted months/years in advance of a trial, would a fair trial be possible?

 

[bluevioletfour]

That's generally the reason guardians are appointed. When it is decided that the parents aren't able to properly care for them.

In cases I've seen and once when we fostered a teen, non-custodial parent(s) have to do the things the court has asked of them to earn? (probably not the correct word) "privileges" with their children. Once they meet certain conditions, then I've seen them have supervised visits of a couple of hours. Over time, I've seen them get unsupervised visits of a couple of hours. Then their hope is to get longer time periods to spend with them to overnights/ weekends. If they don't pass a ua or don't attend court mandated classes, they lose being able to visit children.

 

[charmingbetsy]

What if the outcome is a double-homicide because of the custody battle? LE and the court system may be anticipating a very high profile crime and upcoming trial that may receive worldwide attention. With all these records posted all over the Internet, even a change of venue might not be enough to get 12 jurors who have not formed opinions on the case.

With these documents posted months/years in advance of a trial, would a fair trial be possible?

The Oklahoma Open Records Act seems to specifically exclude the type of action you are describing ("Access to records which, under the Oklahoma Open Records Act, would otherwise be available for public inspection and copying, shall not be denied because a public body or public official is using or has taken possession of such records for investigatory purposes or has placed the records in a litigation or investigation file." 51 O.S. 24A.20)

I use OSCN every day and I'm pretty familiar with the process to shield documents from view on OSCN or seal them. This requires a motion and a court order finding specific reasons for sealing certain documents. The fact that an entire docket disappeared, without any order describing the reasons for removing the docket, is shocking.

I feel for the kids and their privacy. But there is a reason we have laws in place providing for the procedures and requirements for sealing documents. Not following them allows the government to operate in the shadows.

 

[Seattle1]

The Oklahoma Open Records Act seems to specifically exclude the type of action you are describing ("Access to records which, under the Oklahoma Open Records Act, would otherwise be available for public inspection and copying, shall not be denied because a public body or public official is using or has taken possession of such records for investigatory purposes or has placed the records in a litigation or investigation file." 51 O.S. 24A.20)

I use OSCN every day and I'm pretty familiar with the process to shield documents from view on OSCN or seal them. This requires a motion and a court order finding specific reasons for sealing certain documents. The fact that an entire docket disappeared, without any order describing the reasons for removing the docket, is shocking.

I feel for the kids and their privacy. But there is a reason we have laws in place providing for the procedures and requirements for sealing documents. Not following them allows the government to operate in the shadows.

I don't use OSCN every day but I'm a registered user. I was viewing this family court case when I received an event code (secured case docs), but the entire docket didn't disappear for me.

This document is secured and can not be viewed.
Please try again later. If the error persists, please contact the webmaster.

Case Number: FP-2019-00001
County/Court: CIMARRON
Event Code: 2100

 

[lesleyNOPE]

I can never wrap my head around how in the world people think they will get away with things like this

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD REQUEST:

We know that public court records previously linked here have since been removed from their source. If you happened to save, download, or otherwise capture any of them before they were removed, please send them to me via private message. We will review them and decide what, if anything will be allowed on the public thread. In the meantime, please refrain from discussing anything outside of what has been reported by the mainstream media.

Thanks so much!

 

[NewMommy09]

I have so many questions in this case but my first one is do we know the children are safe, where they are, and who they are with? I assume with Paternal Grandmother/Guardian, and is she accounted for?

Regrettably, I can't fathom any scenarios that make sense with what we know and lead to finding these 2 women alive, I hope I'm wrong. It seems like a lot of stress in all of these people's lives for many years and I find the possibility that with all of that, these women met with some random danger on the road that's totally unrelated to be far fetched I just hope those two little ones are safe. I can't imagine all the damage they have to sort through just to try to live their lives happily someday. It makes my stomach hurt.

 

[Hestia's Fire]

Have there been any large-scale searches in the area, either on foot or in the air? Normally in a case like this we hear about all the searches being done and see footage of dog handlers and helicopters and everything, but it seems like there's an infuriating lack of updates on the search for these two ladies.

I can only hope that means law enforcement has a good idea where they've gone and who is responsible for their disappearance, and they're working hard behind the scenes to close in on that person or those people.

 

[Gae]

Have there been any large-scale searches in the area, either on foot or in the air? Normally in a case like this we hear about all the searches being done and see footage of dog handlers and helicopters and everything, but it seems like there's an infuriating lack of updates on the search for these two ladies.

I can only hope that means law enforcement has a good idea where they've gone and who is responsible for their disappearance, and they're working hard behind the scenes to close in on that person or those people.

Unless I'm missing it somewhere, I'm not seeing a lot of press conferences with officials asking for tips, leads - anything that could help find them. They're acting aloof and saying things like, "This is suspicious." Well, I guess it is.

 

[Valhall]

Why would these women stop? Maybe someone pretended to be police?

Local news reports are stating they were less than 3 miles from their destination. With that in mind, it's very easy to determine where they were headed. I don't believe they would stop unless it was someone one of them knew (i.e. the ex's mother who has been alleged to be the person who had the kids). I don't believe they would have stopped for anyone else. And not knowing if the vehicle was damaged, the only other scenario reasonable in my head is an intentional running them off the road. The area this happened in doesn't even have a tree large enough to hide behind, so it would be real hard to stage a multi-person ambush when you can see forever in all directions with no obstructions,

 

[CrowsCaw]

Unless I'm missing it somewhere, I'm not seeing a lot of press conferences with officials asking for tips, leads - anything that could help find them. They're acting aloof and saying things like, "This is suspicious." Well, I guess it is.

The lack of info is infuriating. To know so little, almost 5 days out, almost smacks of incompetence. Why release so little info? Why no news conferences or family members pleading for help. No community ground searches, requests for videos? Why no time lines? So frustrated with LE and I don’t understand this approach.

 

[CuriousCricket]

The Oklahoma Open Records Act seems to specifically exclude the type of action you are describing ("Access to records which, under the Oklahoma Open Records Act, would otherwise be available for public inspection and copying, shall not be denied because a public body or public official is using or has taken possession of such records for investigatory purposes or has placed the records in a litigation or investigation file." 51 O.S. 24A.20)

I use OSCN every day and I'm pretty familiar with the process to shield documents from view on OSCN or seal them. This requires a motion and a court order finding specific reasons for sealing certain documents. The fact that an entire docket disappeared, without any order describing the reasons for removing the docket, is shocking.

I feel for the kids and their privacy. But there is a reason we have laws in place providing for the procedures and requirements for sealing documents. Not following them allows the government to operate in the shadows.

What if the records were getting so many hits, it was interfering with the court's computers and the servers couldn't handle the traffic? This high profile, worldwide interest and demand could not have been anticipated.

This might be an emergency measure with the walk-in public still able to obtain the files.

 

[grannygates]

The lack of info is infuriating. To know so little, almost 5 days out, almost smacks of incompetence. Why release so little info? Why no news conferences or family members pleading for help. No community ground searches, requests for videos? Why no time lines? So frustrated with LE and I don’t understand this approach.

I think LE already have the info they need. From just us snooping around, it seems fairly straight forward where to focus the investigation. I’m sure with being a small town, word is also getting around quickly.

 

[whitelilac]

It's possible that investigators know who did this and have to keep everything very quiet for now. There may also be a need for some very careful and sensitive action here, especially if there may be children involved.
When people are cornered, they can do horribly desperate things, and it's possible someone IS cornered at this point.

With the number of agencies involved, some of those from outside the area, I don't think this is a matter of incompetence. I think it's tactics.

 

[sassyblue]

Local news reports are stating they were less than 3 miles from their destination. With that in mind, it's very easy to determine where they were headed. I don't believe they would stop unless it was someone one of them knew (i.e. the ex's mother who has been alleged to be the person who had the kids). I don't believe they would have stopped for anyone else. And not knowing if the vehicle was damaged, the only other scenario reasonable in my head is an intentional running them off the road. The area this happened in doesn't even have a tree large enough to hide behind, so it would be real hard to stage a multi-person ambush when you can see forever in all directions with no obstructions,

It's so very good to see you posting again!!

 

[Cryptic]

I can never wrap my head around how in the world people think they will get away with things like this

Objectively, your question makes perfect sense.

But.... when humans go violently criminal, they can do so with alot of subjectivity. Rage can lead to alot of impulsive violence that as you pointed out, raises the automatic question of: Did you really think that....?

 

[Hestia's Fire]

I can never wrap my head around how in the world people think they will get away with things like this

I believe, deep down, nearly all violent criminals believe that they are smarter than the police and smarter than all of those other dumb criminals who were foolish enough to get caught.

The scary thing is, sometimes they do get away with it.

 

[Knox]

The lack of info is infuriating. To know so little, almost 5 days out, almost smacks of incompetence. Why release so little info? Why no news conferences or family members pleading for help. No community ground searches, requests for videos? Why no time lines? So frustrated with LE and I don’t understand this approach.

LE may have a lot of undisclosed evidence and they are tracking it all down. They don’t need the public’s help at this point, they a suspect(s) in the cross hair. Family may have been asked not to speak to media. None of this is uncommon in an active investigation, JMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 2, 2024

'Suspicious disappearance' of 2 women prompts an investigation in Oklahoma

Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, were traveling together to pick up children. “They never made it to the pickup location,” according to an endangered missing persons advisory.

www.nbcnews.com

"Agents are still working around the clock on this to try to find where these women are, what may have occurred," McKee said, adding there are no suspects in the investigation, and no threats against the women have been reported.

Missing moms’ car found abandoned in Oklahoma

Authorities say there are “suspicious” circumstances regarding Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley’s disappearance.

www.newsnationnow.com

“As of right now, as the investigation continues and we were requested, we’re unsure where these women are or what happened to them,” said Hunter Mckee, OSBI public information manager. “That unknown is what has created it suspicious for us at this time.”

Search continues for missing women

HUGOTON, Kan. -- Two women from Hugoton, Kansas, identified as 27-year-old Veronica Butler and 39-year-old Jilian Kelley, have gone missing, prompting an expanded search effort. The Texas County Sheriff's Department has enlisted the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation to look into their...

www.mccookgazette.com

An endangered missing person alert has been activated, with the search focused on a rural home in Eva, Oklahoma.

 

[branmuffin]

I haven't gotten beyond page 3 yet but is it possible that the two women were advised they were not to come to the actual home where the children live but would be met by someone, whether that's her ex or someone who lives with her ex's mother and taken to a location they wouldn't be able to identify.

Sounds crazy but lots of crazy things happen during custody battles. If the children's current living location is less than stellar then maybe it could be used as fodder to change custody. It seems so barren out there. If the Google images taken April 2023 of hwy 95 is indicative of what the environment is like at this time of the year it would be very difficult to hide bodies since it's flat as a pancake as far as the eye can see. No ditches or culverts. Do we know if their phones are pinging? Has LE gotten in touch with the grandmother who allegedly has custody of the children?