OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[shefner]

If LE can get someone to talk, they will get what they’re seeking.

I find it impossible to believe there was only one perp in this case and that person hasn’t had help or told someone close to them what went down.

Divide and conquer.

 

[NDreu]

Moo...yea this is cold and well planned. With knowledge of approximate time, type and color of car known to perp. The environment is so empty and flat, you could probably see and recognize car at distance. If there is no electronics to track think police are going to have a hard time with this one...moo

I would think that if it is VB KIA SUV that it looked to be a newer model (assuming the vehicle Gray Hughes posted is the same one that was used that day which was posted earlier in this thread) that perhaps might yield some electronic data.

Issue is that the download of that data based on what I've seen in other cases takes time unless perhaps the FBI can step in and handle it quickly as not all states so far as I know have the capability to unlock vehicle data. We don't know what OSBI electronic capabilities might be.

We also don't know if one/both of the women had apple watches or other other electronic watches that might capture some data that could assist with the process of tracing the path of activities.
MOO

 

[Hestia's Fire]

I would think that if it is VB KIA SUV that it looked to be a newer model (assuming the vehicle Gray Hughes posted is the same one that was used that day which was posted earlier in this thread) that perhaps might yield some electronic data.

Issue is that the download of that data based on what I've seen in other cases takes time unless perhaps the FBI can step in and handle it quickly as not all states so far as I know have the capability to unlock vehicle data. We don't know what OSBI electronic capabilities might be.

We also don't know if one/both of the women had apple watches or other other electronic watches that might capture some data that could assist with the process of tracing the path of activities.
MOO

On Jilian's Facebook, you can see several photos where she is wearing what appears to be some kind of smartwatch on her left wrist. I'm not sure if it's an Apple watch or another brand, but I hope she was wearing it that day, and that it can be of some use to law enforcement.

Jilian's FB: Log into Facebook

 

[NDreu]

I get the impression they are really far ahead of where most people think they are. If this was some small local agency, I’d be bothered by how quiet this is. Because it’s a state agency with the ball though, I take it as a very good sign.

If there was no obvious motive, and this was likely some sort of random event, then I think this investigation would be unbelievably difficult.

Here though, a motive exists, and there’s a firm starting point. The women’s electronics may not prove fruitful, but the electronics of people within Veronica’s orbit likely will.

I believe this is a conspiracy, which increases the likelihood of a major break that unravels everything.

I'm with you on this but the way this is playing out is very much unlike a typical 'missing' case based on many other cases we have followed imo.

Based on what has played out in terms of the virtual 'radio silence' from OSBI along with the locking down of commentary from friends and family, this appears as if OSBI knows what happened and they clearly aren't looking for assistance. Perhaps it was a kidnapping/abduction or execution and based on the crime scene they could determine which of these it might have been? IDK.

Locals have reported that OSBI and other LE have been actively interviewing people in the area and given the population density perhaps that is why there was never a public call for assistance or any reward offered or Crime Stoppers etc. or any of the other things typically seen with a ''missing case"?

No vehicle pictures, no public requests for dash cam, no public requests for assistance other than a pro form imo mention of a 'tips line'. Its odd though about the no requests for dash cam footage as apparently the truck traffic in the area from the pig/cattle operations is fairly consistent but perhaps it was less that day due to being Saturday before Easter? But, perhaps the truck traffic was so limited that the companies were able to provide all the contact information for the trucks without having to go public?

Its a puzzler....

MOO

 

[CamilleBSP]

Devices such as Airtags being misused to track and stalk targets have been in the news, though as I understand their range is limited. Still, I hope LE reviews any available video of the SUV in the days before the disappearance, in case someone appeared on video hiding a device on it. It might have been used by the perp to keep track of the vehicle in its travel and then intercept it. Of course it was very likely removed after the intercept, but does anyone know if those things "ping" their locations like cell phones?

This case brings to mind the 2005, local-to-me Dr. Moonda murder case. It involved what initially seemed to be a highway robbery of two travelers who had pulled over to switch drivers, but the technical forensics on (circa 2005) cell phones and towers proved vital in the prosecution. I am in no way suggesting either of the women was complicit in this case (unlike the Moonda case, where the unharmed party was found to have arranged the staged robbery) but it's a good read on how the case was solved.

AFAIK most of the stalkware available also uses cell towers, so that’d be spotty too.

 

[MadMcGoo]

^^^ AS A REMINDER ^^^

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The currently available court documents pertaining to VB are easily accessible to the public and allowed to be linked and discussed here (as several members have been doing). Court documents no longer accessible to the public via the government site or other approved sources are off limits.

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[Songbird1973]

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>

Maybe courts allow designated pick up locations to be more conveniently located for those with custody (or temp custody), idk.

I do think that Four Corners was a very poor choice (by whoever chose it) as the designated regular pick up location due to it’s relative desolation and lack of public services. Elkhart would have made much more sense imo. Both parties could have made the trip on St. Rte. 56

All jmo

VB is originally from the panhandle, having graduated from Yarbrough school. (Many previous MSM quotes.)

The avaliable court documents state that during the custody battle, VB moved from OK to KS, back to OK, then to CO, and on to KS again.

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetDocument.aspx?ct=appellate&bc=1051378994&cn=DF-119621&fmt=pdf

Very likely, when Four Corners was designated as the meetup place, VB lived in the area and it was a logical, centralized location between her home and WR's home.

 

[Ksfarmer8]

VB is originally from the panhandle, having graduated from Yarbrough school. (Many previous MSM quotes.)

The avaliable court documents state that during the custody battle, VB moved from OK to KS, back to OK, then to CO, and on to KS again.
https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetDocument.aspx?ct=appellate&bc=1051378994&cn=DF-119621&fmt=pdf
Very likely, when Four Corners was designated as the meetup place, VB lived in the area and it was a logical, centralized location between her home and WR's home.

WOW!!!

 

[LaylaD]

WOW!!!

I believe this section of the country is very close to OK, KS, and CO - so she’s not necessarily moving that far from where she grew up. And it is possible VB moves to larger communities where there were better employment opportunities.

 

[poppyquiche]

Been watching this one since it started. I really hope these women can be returned in some way to their families, ideally alive.

If this ends up in a way the general consensus isn't leaning, I'll be astonished. But also HOW stupid would someone have to be to pull something like this WITH this kind of background information? Don't get me wrong; anyone who follows true crime in any capacity knows that often logic is not remotely at the heart of the actions of those involved in situations like this, but good grief...

 

[Ksfarmer8]

I believe this section of the country is very close to OK, KS, and CO - so she’s not necessarily moving that far from where she grew up. And it is possible VB moves to larger communities where there were better employment opportunities.

The moving around is not an issue but I was shocked at all the other allegations. JMO

 

[Chimera]

LE saying very little to the public doesn't indicate they're concerned about something as much as it (usually) means they are busy with their investigation, have the information they need without the public's input, and are waiting to address the public when they have something more substantial to say, other than "it's an ongoing investigation". Although they do often hold pressers that say exactly that, but that's usually a political decision made by someone to keep the public happy.

jmo

Bolding mine.
Hopefully that's the case.

 

[Chimera]

Been watching this one since it started. I really hope these women can be returned in some way to their families, ideally alive.

If this ends up in a way the general consensus isn't leaning, I'll be astonished. But also HOW stupid would someone have to be to pull something like this WITH this kind of background information? Don't get me wrong; anyone who follows true crime in any capacity knows that often logic is not remotely at the heart of the actions of those involved in situations like this, but good grief...

If it wasn't already bad enough to abduct/harm one person, adding another woman to this crime is sloppy to say the least.
Although we don't know for sure, I think VB was the target.
Of course those who care and are worried about her will be desperately searching !

But now you have two families looking.
I'd have expected this to be wrapped up sooner than this; but hopefully not much longer.
Omo.

 

[Valhall]

If it wasn't already bad enough to abduct/harm one person, adding another woman to this crime is sloppy to say the least.
Although we don't know for sure, I think VB was the target.
Of course those who care and are worried about her will be desperately searching !

But now you have two families looking.
I'd have expected this to be wrapped up sooner than this; but hopefully not much longer.
Omo.

Do to the way the orders were written there HAD to be a third party present. The interesting part is that the other times it was GMA's third party supervisor present. Most likely someone she is friends with, or at least has some connection with since she selected her. This time it was one of VB's supervisors, so no connection to GMA. I feel like that is a BIG deal in this. The collateral damage was someone with no connection.

 

[nao]

If it wasn't already bad enough to abduct/harm one person, adding another woman to this crime is sloppy to say the least.
Although we don't know for sure, I think VB was the target.
Of course those who care and are worried about her will be desperately searching !

But now you have two families looking.
I'd have expected this to be wrapped up sooner than this; but hopefully not much longer.
Omo.

Moo...they knew there were 2 people, this is basically an assassination . Even if police know who did what, still gotta prove it. The children will not get taken, they are safe.
Police knowing probable cause for missing women, and then proving it, are far apart. There is a whole lot of land out there, guess they will be alot churning up the ground to plant seeds.

 

[Vegasgrl]

VB is originally from the panhandle, having graduated from Yarbrough school. (Many previous MSM quotes.)

The avaliable court documents state that during the custody battle, VB moved from OK to KS, back to OK, then to CO, and on to KS again.

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetDocument.aspx?ct=appellate&bc=1051378994&cn=DF-119621&fmt=pdf

Very likely, when Four Corners was designated as the meetup place, VB lived in the area and it was a logical, centralized location between her home and WR's home.

This court document is interesting. Without the actual transcription from the trial, we're only reading one side of the story though. Attorneys cherry-pick testimony and embellish "stories" to help their clients win. There's a reason dad wasn't given physical custody, IMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

Outside the @OSBI_OK HQ in #Oklahoma City where the investigation into the disappearance of two missing moms is being handled. There are no updates from the #OSBI as of Sunday, but that could change in a second. The search for answers in the case of #VeronicaButler & #JillianKelley is ongoing, but the rumors here on the ground are swirling. We’ll bring you more tomorrow on @NewsNation

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777166900654395886

 

[Songbird1973]

This court document is interesting. Without the actual transcription from the trial, we're only reading one side of the story though. Attorneys cherry-pick testimony and embellish "stories" to help their clients win. There's a reason dad wasn't given physical custody, IMO.

Yes you are so right about the page I linked being one sided. It was the best I could do, not having access to the now blocked original court order regarding the 4 Corners meet up place.

 

[Trino]

Has anyone considered asking Equusearch/Tim Miller if they can assist ?
Omo.

Asking Equusearch would take a family member, which sure seems to be JK's husband. Has anyone heard of relatives of VB?

 

[Trino]

I wasn't confused on the agency you meant, but I'm unclear why you'd expect them to remove the kids?
From what I've read here, the grandmother has custody of them. (I've not read any of the court docs posted, just what's been discussed here).
Since there have been zero charges against her or anyone else, it doesn't make sense for a state agency to come in and remove the children from their home.

jmo

Grandmother does not have legal custody. Her son does, and he left the kids off at her house. She calls herself a guardian.