OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[nhmemorymaker]

I think this is why I hope FBI is active behind the scenes as given their presence in OK they could make short order of a lot of the testing if OK State lab doesn’t have resources. Also KBI is now involved and has been photographed by media as being local in OK and their labs could add capacity as well and ditto for CO.

Just hope LE is working together and not bickering over jurisdiction.

Moo

omg, I do to. Since I keep leaning to this being a hit, AND there are the two and possible 4 states that could be a search area..... I just hope the FBI was brought in very very early.
But we should know THAT.
We learned, right away, when FBI set up shop in Rexburg ID,for the Vallow /Daybell case.

 

[NDreu]

JMO, it’s a little concerning that OSBI doesn’t have much presence out there. One would expect they would have at least one agent assigned to the area this early in the investigation.

ETA, their Wikipedia page shows there are only 99 OSBI agents to cover the entire state.

Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They probably rely on local LE to help with investigations and do the best they can.
JMO

The news reporter on news nation said that Kansas bureau of investigation / KBI and Colorado Bureau have been seen in area and also the Oklahoma state police and their special tactical unit are all local. I wish they said they saw the FBI but didn’t hear that mentioned. Just pray they are helping.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Yes, totally agree. But still wonder if LE did it or the perps?

Timing seems pretty tight between event and when vehicle was reported to 911. Would the perps have had the time or taken the time -- esp in broad daylight?

 

[NDreu]

Timing seems pretty tight between event and when vehicle was reported to 911. Would the perps have had the time or taken the time -- esp in broad daylight?

I always thought it was LE that put it down but fact is we just don’t know. Some have speculated that it was put down by perps to hide the blood and make the ground look undisturbed. Just have to add it to the question list I guess!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

If the car was dumped there -- it indicates more than one assailant. MOO

That's a definite possibility, but another possibility is that it was a planned attack, and the attacker had been following the car for some time and perhaps became aggressive (cutting them off, bumping them, etc.) Maybe the women tried to get away--turning on the back road without thinking they would be isolating themselves from other traffic.

LE doesn't tell us what the evidence is that there was foul play, but it could have been something like a tire or a window shot out.

All speculation on my part. MOO

I keep thinking that whatever happened was super quick. Perps didn't want the victims communication anything by phone before the attack/

 

[NDreu]

Kitty litter soaks up liquid substances, like oil or blood. IMO

ETA: I see this has been covered!

Yes, we use it where I am for snow! Does the trick and it’s light to carry and never goes bad. Miracle product for sure!

 

[Trino]

This is my number one scenario for this case. IMO, it wasn't the bio father making a quick break from rehab to do it. It wasn't a couple of sloppy cousins/uncles running out there to do it - leaving a trail of evidence. IMO, it was most likely a very well planned out hit and it will take a very long time to solve - if ever.

Agree this is going to take a lot of footwork if the case is ever solved. Agree it was well-planned. No witnesses. LIttle to no technology unless prints. Best bets are someone with too much to drink, someone arrested for another crime, or a long shot, someone with a conscience.

 

[GRT]

I keep thinking that whatever happened was super quick. Perps didn't want the victims communication anything by phone before the attack/

That's a really good point and it brings up the question of what the cell service was like out there.

The last time I was in Oklahoma (two years ago) there were several spots without service. I wasn't in that area, but that seems even more remote than the route I took so I wouldn't be surprised to find they were in a dead zone, service-wise. If the attack was premeditated, the attacker may have been aware of that.

All MOO...

 

[Trino]

That's a really good point and it brings up the question of what the cell service was like out there.

The last time I was in Oklahoma (two years ago) there were several spots without service. I wasn't in that area, but that seems even more remote than the route I took so I wouldn't be surprised to find they were in a dead zone, service-wise. If the attack was premeditated, the attacker may have been aware of that.

All MOO...

Check out the panhandle on this map. Service is iffy, if at all, by major carriers. Guessing cell phones will not solve the case. AT&T, Verizon or T-Mobile? Maps show which is best in Oklahoma

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[mst]

Would there be one main route coming in to the area? A road that would be obvious to take for a bit until you get closer to town? What if this was 2 people? A spotter. One up the road a bit that communicated that the car was coming and another to somehow make it stop?

 

[sony12]

Is it known who VB was currently dating or who had dated in the past? Those people should probably be looked into as well. She clearly didn't have a very stable life if her kids were taken away from her and a lot of times the men these women choose to get involved with plays a big part in that.

 

[charmingbetsy]

Would there be one main route coming in to the area? A road that would be obvious to take for a bit until you get closer to town? What if this was 2 people? A spotter. One up the road a bit that communicated that the car was coming and another to somehow make it stop?

Seems like a good use for walkie talkies. Aren't they used a lot on farms and ranches? Not sure of the technology, but I think this would also eliminate possible cell tower ping evidence.

ETA: Pretty sure there was only one main road to take to 4 Corners from where they started.

 

[NDreu]

That was my initial theory, that they made it to the destination and the car was later dumped.

That makes a lot more sense than some sort of roadside ambush, at least in terms of feasibility.

My opinion changed once we heard a bit about the crime scene, but we just don’t know what’s true or not. Broken glass there means it happened there, but a broken window by itself does not.

Yes, but in support of the theory that the car location is the primary crime scene it looks like there could have been a good amt of blood or liquid evidence present at the site as the close up shots of the scene from News Nation video yesterday of the site seemed to indicate at least 3 potholes were dug up; presumably to remove soil for testing if done by OSBI or taken by perps to remove evidence. Just don't know right now I guess.
MOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

Yes, but in support of the theory that the car location is the primary crime scene it looks like there was a good amt of blood evidence as the close up shots of the scene from News Nation video yesterday of the site seemed to indicate at least 3 potholes were dug up; presumably to remove soil for testing if done by OSBI or taken by perps to remove evidence.
MOO

Might that signal LE found tire tracks?

 

[NDreu]

Seems like a good use for walkie talkies. Aren't they used a lot on farms and ranches? Not sure of the technology, but I think this would also eliminate possible cell tower ping evidence.

ETA: Pretty sure there was only one main road to take to 4 Corners from where they started.

The walkie talkie idea you suggest could be spot on imo, particularly if you have local folks that don't want to be subject to the tracking of cell networks etc. I do bet that folks that work on ranches that have vast distances and possibly no or limited cell might make active use of walkie talkies.

There is also supposedly an Apple watch walkie talkie app that exists but IDK how it works or what its range is.

I've been to some remote places where satellite phones are routinely used. They can be pricey but if no other option exists then at least it can keep you safe and they are more accessible cost wise these days than they used to be.

IDK how LE might capture possible civilian satellite transmissions as I haven't seen such data used in a trial but I would guess that there is clearly some US agency (NSA perhaps?) that could capture this data for use by LE.

Found some interesting walkie talkie info from someone that sells them below:

Radios, Range and Frequency

What is the range of walkie-talkies? How much distance will they cover? What is the difference between VHF and UHF radios? We try to give simple answers.

www.walkie-talkie-radio.co.uk

Here is the info:

Walkie Talkie Radios & Range​

Walkie Talkie Radios, range & frequency​

Normal walkie-talkies just transmit directly from one radio to another. The likely range that can be expected from walkie-talkies can vary from a few hundred metres to a couple of miles or more.

The range is drastically reduced when walkie-talkies are used within buildings, or in a town or city with densely-packed streets of big houses, office blocks and other buildings.

A radio that might have a range of 2 or 3 miles in open, fairly flat countryside may only work over 500m in city streets.

All brands of walkie-talkie have basically the same power output, and therefore approximately the same range. You won't find that one brand of radio has a range twice as good than another, because they are all subject to the same basic laws of physics.

Mobile Data Network Walkie-Talkies - Potentially Unlimited Range​

We now sell and hire a totally new type of "radio" that contains a SIM card like a mobile phone, and that transmits its signal via the mobile phone data networks. These radios get around the point-to-point range limitation of conventional walkie-talkies, and can transmit over any distance at all, provided that both ends are positioned somewhere that has a mobile phone signal. They are best suited for events in towns and cities where there is good mobile network coverage, and where "normal" walkie-talkies range is badly affected by lots of big buildings between one radio and another.

VHF and UHF Radios Compared - Which Is Best?​

VHF (136 - 174MHz) signals generally work best outdoors, giving a somewhat longer range for the same power output than UHF (400 - 470MHz).

However, VHF signals really do not work well when there are obstructions like buildings around.

For most users who want their radios to be "good all-rounders", UHF is the best choice.

But if you plan to use your radios only in open countryside (or at sea - maritime radio is VHF) then VHF is better for absolute range.

 

[NDreu]

Might that signal LE found tire tracks?

IDK. The video we saw yesterday on News Nation that showed the ground clearly made the ground look bone dry and very disturbed as no doubt it was driven over many times since the time of the event imo.

I wish a local could tell us whether those gravel cut offs get much traffic or turn around activity from trucks or farmers.

I found a pic (sorry for poor resolution of video capture) from when the OSBI was on site with its remote forensic lab and you can clearly see how many vehicles were driving around on the location.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

I hope this gentleman is correct, and that LE being so tight lipped, and instructing the women's families to be as well, means they are close to an arrest and do not want to tip their hands.

 

[doublestop]

The thing is though that VB had been a local for a period of time as she and bio dad lived with TA and she grew up in the area and attended the local school we saw on video the other day. She was local and so imo would have known the gravel road and connection road curves well.

VB and her dad lived with TA? I haven't seen that before, what is the source of that? That give a little different view of potential relationships in the case.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I hope this gentleman is correct, and that LE are being so tight lipped, and instructing the women's families to be as well, means they are close to an arrest and do not want to tip their hands.

I think so too. I know a lots been said about the scarcity of info let out about this case. It’s not because we’re a bunch of dumb red dirt road hicks on horses with outhouses. Our state motto is ‘Hard Work Conquers All’ and we’re called the Sooner State because we’re a little sneaky. I know OSBI has got this!