GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

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IDK said:
Totally agree! And now the members of the mob will feel vindicated for their actions and continue to behave the same way in similar situations.

No winners here and society just keeps taking little backward steps…. IMO.
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you are right there....although some smart ones may back off faster knowing the result here.
 
I think that it is interesting that this group of jurors, applied the law, as they interpreted it. It always has to go back to the law. And, I am not sure about the laws regarding this situation in all states, but there may have been a different outcome in another state depending on how the law is written.
 
My opinion is the younger group most likely learned from this experience -- hard lesson to learn - at least Isaac's group of friends. Most of them who got on the stand said he was their best friend. They will have guilt for the rest of their lives. Maybe health issues, from the stress? They know the mistakes were made, but killing someone was not one of them. I believe if any of them choose to have children, they will teach their kids to do much better.

Not giving these guys a free pass, but they were high school kids, not even old even to fight in a war. Not as wise as a 52 year old, supposedly, ought to have been.

moo
 
arielilane said:
@PaulBlume_FOX9

APPLE RIVER STABBING TRIAL: Nicolae Miu back on stand. His atty asked him about this moment where Isaac Schuman has his hands at Miu's neck, "I feared for my life.. I reached out & stabbed him. Were you trying to kill somebody? Absolutely not, I was just trying to defend myself."

View attachment 496126
2:17 PM · Apr 9, 2024
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This photo quote is from thread page 24. I see Miu's face is blank, in shock - IMO it is a far stretch to see anger or rage, no red face, he wasn't even yelling and cursing at them. His mouth is in grimace, neck is stiff, and his whole spine and neck are tensed backward away from the assaulting Schuman. Miu's arm with the knife in hand remains stiffly in front of him. From my chair, it appears that Schuman impaled himself on Miu's knife, Schuman's own body weight adding the force whereby a 3-inch blade results in a greater than 4-inch wound. Additionally Schuman's .219 BAC plus his physical actions indicates his comfort and experience level with alcohol, eg an alcohol 'virgin' would be passed out, not even standing.
 
mzmarymac said:
I am having a very difficult time with this verdict. I accept it of course but wow one day to send a man to prison for likely the rest of his life after being provoked, surrounded and attacked by multiple people and simply defended himself. Yes. He lied. Yes. He should have told the truth. But I feel this verdict is because of his lies, which is unfortunate, because I believe MANY people will see this result the way I do. You have no right to protect yourself in America any longer. People can surround an old mans car banging and kicking and climbing on it but if you dare try to defend yourself, you can go to prison. People can surround you screaming at you and getting in your face and personal space and pushing them away allows an angry mob to violently attack you and you are supposed to just take it.

I am sorry. Maybe I'm just old. But the way these people acted was despicable. And this right here illustrates EXACTLY why this man chose to lie and try to get away from it. Because he knew in his high functioning analytical engineer's mind that society is a hot mess.JMO
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This was not about people jumping on an old man's car, this was not a mob. This was not a mob rushing into stores to steal. This was not self defense, IMO.

Kyle's case was self defense.

I am old woman, with family in Lake Geneva, Wis, and visited many times, especially to visit those Kenosha bars that in my youth had lower age for drinking. And as an adult to fish and party there. I know Wisconsin.

Some young adults are less respectable now days, but I only saw young teens that were afraid of this man, they stuck together and started screaming at him to WALK AWAY. They could not understand what little he was saying. He lied to Maddie that the kids TOOK his mask.

Personally, I think this was intentional homicide. Intent can happen in a second. He hid the knife and struck for a kill. He knew exactly where the knife was going, heart and vital organs....then walked away....if he was scared maybe he should have run. And hid the knife....then lied and lied and lied.
 
turaj said:
Miu himself said everyone including himself were drunk on the river...then says "kids will be kids" and yet he slashed five of them. Miu thought he was the smartest guy on the river, then smartest guy in courtroom. He deserves any long sentence he gets. Something snapped in him that day...angry does not even begin to describe his mindset and he went too far. I think he was fully aware of that knife and had he not had it he would have just walked away. If he had a gun (big gun guy from facebook posts) he would have done even more damage.
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Absolutely, you saw it. He really thought he was the smartest in the room. He probably was around his friends. What really angered him was two woman cussing at him and telling him to GO>>>>
 
mzmarymac said:
I am a 56 year old woman and my husband is 62. So of course, I see things clearly from NM's POV. I also understand why he lied about everything. The problem is that he was scared and in shock. Yes. He behaved rationally. And I also don't believe he doesn't remember. I wish he'd just admitted he lied because he thought no one would believe him.

Let's talk about the things that regardless of people jumping up and down about that NM is NOT required to do after what he declares as self-defense. Not saying doing these things wouldn't be helpful in one's defense, but not "required by law."

1.) "just leave" - anyone could have "just left" and no one has the right to dictate who needs to "just leave"
2.) to assist in medical aid or contact 911
3.) to stick around the scene after it happened
4.) to volunteer any information implicating yourself

I wish he hadn't lied and I wish he didn't lie about not remembering. He may have perjured himself on the stand, which is an issue. But to me, the bottom line is the video, which CLEARLY shows a group of loud, drunk, healthy, young, capable people surrounding, threatening, screaming at, namecalling, touching him, and putting this man into what anyone his age and of reasonable mind can see as self-defense.

Again, as the attorney said - if you think it "might be self-defense the verdict is not guilty. If you think it is possibly not self defense the verdict is not guilty. They must prove it was not self-defense beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt in order to find guilty.

A fair jury will find him not guilty on all counts. I don't know if there are counts against him for lying after the fact? Not sure if there are any laws about that? But for everything that happened in the video, this is clearly a not guilty verdict. IMO
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Your post is very eloquent and you have captured the sentiments of many just beautifully. You have received so many Likes. I agree with you and Thank You.
 
mickey2942 said:
I think that it is interesting that this group of jurors, applied the law, as they interpreted it. It always has to go back to the law. And, I am not sure about the laws regarding this situation in all states, but there may have been a different outcome in another state depending on how the law is written.
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Miu thought "stand my ground" was a license to start slashing anyone in his way. I liked how the state noted that Wisc. is not a "stand your ground" state.
 
Interested in the jurors thoughts and reasoning on this, and hoping for interviews.
Tragic all the way around. This isn't a "win". There is no winning in a case like this, considering there was bad behavior and mistruths from all sides. Hopefully lessons were learned - do better, folks.
I don't agree with the battery conviction WRT Maddie.
NM taking the stand wasn't the best decision.
IMO
 
Leilei said:
Interested in the jurors thoughts and reasoning on this, and hoping for interviews.
Tragic all the way around. This isn't a "win". There is no winning in a case like this, considering there was bad behavior and mistruths from all sides. Hopefully lessons were learned - do better, folks.
I don't agree with the battery conviction WRT Maddie.
NM taking the stand wasn't the best decision.
IMO
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Agree wholeheartedly. Everyone made mistakes and it was indeed tragic from every angle. The worst of human nature was shown multiple times from multiple individuals.

While I find most fault in NM, he was not the catalyst, nor do I feel that the rest of his life should be spent in prison. Jmo
 
Accepting what the jury said as legal fact*, here's where I land:
  • Isaac's group should not have said anything to NM. They should not have heckled him and verbally attacked him.
  • NM should not have engaged with Isaac's group. He should have ignored them and continued his search. He should not have walked over to them and lunged at their tubes.
  • Isaac's group should not have continued to heckle NM after he came over. IMO they still sounded like they were joking and making fun of him, and not seriously trying to end the situation. They should have given it a "WTF bro" and moved away.
  • Madison should not have come over and started yelling at NM. If she wanted to diffuse the situation, she could have spoken to both parties rather than immediately taking a side. The rest of the Carlson group should also not have come over unless they were trying to cool things down.
  • NM, Isaac's group, and the Carlson group should not have continued yelling at each other and crowd around. Any one of them could have been the bigger person, backed down, and "taken the L", but they all thought they were in the right.
  • NM should not have pulled out his knife. He could have said "I'm going to leave now," and grabbed his knife only if he wasn't allowed to.
  • Madison and Rhyley should not have gotten in NM's face and touched him.
  • NM should not have battered Madison.
  • Dante and then AJ should not have repeatedly punched/shoved/etc. NM. I can get shoving him once to get off of Madison, but at the point he was in the water, the goal should have been trying to stop any violence, not continue it. If NM had not changed the course of things by stabbing people, was the plan to just keep hitting him?
  • NM should not have continued to stab people, especially once Tony got between him and the others. I actually understand why he stabbed AJ, just as I understand why Dante and AJ shoved NM, but it could have stopped after both of those moments.
At every single point, all parties failed. It's very disappointing, and very sad.

*for example, I still have doubts that NM punched Madison, but he has been found legally guilty of doing so
 
Sad about this verdict. Sad for NM.

I wish the drunk child mob could get some kind of punishment for starting it all! <modsnip - unnecessary> (IMO)
 
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KSwizzle said:
People are way more unhinged nowadays, especially after covid. It sucks. I tell my kid, you have to be careful about any situation you go into you never know who is just going to fly off the handle don't assume.
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Good advice. I always say dont put yourself in a situation, which will lead to others making decisions for you.
 
I think in stand your ground states this would have been a different verdict. 38 states are stand your ground states. Wisconsin is not one of them. Mine is also one of the ones that is NOT.

Here is a list...

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www.findlaw.com
 
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TTF14 said:
Sad about this verdict. Sad for NM.

I wish the drunk child mob could get some kind of punishment for starting it all! <modsnip - unnecessary> (IMO)
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Well, one of them received an end of life punishment and 5 received punishments via being stabbed. Hopefully they all learned to be better humans, walk away from trouble, and to not be inebriated to the point they make life changing decisions that have unfortunate consequences.
 
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SandyQLS said:
This photo quote is from thread page 24. I see Miu's face is blank, in shock - IMO it is a far stretch to see anger or rage, no red face, he wasn't even yelling and cursing at them. His mouth is in grimace, neck is stiff, and his whole spine and neck are tensed backward away from the assaulting Schuman. Miu's arm with the knife in hand remains stiffly in front of him. From my chair, it appears that Schuman impaled himself on Miu's knife, Schuman's own body weight adding the force whereby a 3-inch blade results in a greater than 4-inch wound. Additionally Schuman's .219 BAC plus his physical actions indicates his comfort and experience level with alcohol, eg an alcohol 'virgin' would be passed out, not even standing.
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It's too bad NM felt inclined to bring out the knife. Sad.
 
Justice101 said:
I think in stand your ground states this would have been a different verdict. 38 states ARE stand your ground states. Wisconsin is not
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Yes. And I think that jurors from Texas or Montana, for example, may have viewed the interchange far differently. Definitely, no one backs down, or leaves a confrontation. There is no, "Well, he should have just left when they told him to leave.". People here, don't think that way.
 
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