Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[PommyMommy]

@PommyMommy

Found it!

APR 16, 2024 / 05:08 PM CDT

(NewsNation) — Police Tuesday towed a white trailer belonging to one of four people charged in the death and disappearance of Kansas moms Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley.

Police on Tuesday towed a trailer from a property with ties to Cullum. Witnesses said they saw the white trailer in the area where the women were killed.

Video @ link: ‘God’s Misfits’ group at center of Kansas missing moms case

Thanks so much for tracking this down, @Artis. I would've never found it because I was searching for cattle hauler, cattle truck, etc. when it was a trailer! MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

You mean the killer crew are hypocrites?! Gee, I am gobsmacked. <Not!>

They fit the same mold of hateful, selfish, greedy, entitled people who will go to any length to get and do what they want. They will lie, cheat, threaten, steal, and kill and use anything they can twist to their purposes. Truly the scum of the Earth (and that's insulting scum).

MOO.

Yup.....

Adams and Cullum were described in the new affidavit as having "a history of violent interactions, including death threats and intimidation against individuals who disagree with their ideas."

At the time of his arrest, Cullum had a rifle, ammunition, body armor and a go-bag prepared at his residence, according to the affidavit.

"Both Cole Twombly who was openly armed, and Cora Twombly confronted law enforcement officials in the State of Texas in an attempt to interfere and intimidate witnesses cooperating with law enforcement," according to the affidavit.

MSN

 

[Cedars]

You mean the killer crew are hypocrites?! Gee, I am gobsmacked. <Not!>

I agree, a sense of proportion frequently gets lost in the aftermath of these kinds of arrests.

IMO, the world is not made up of people (us) who are completely pure, angelic beings who have no narcissistic tendencies, have never acted even remotely hypocritocally, etc, and then those others (them) who are evil incarnate through and through in every aspect of their nature.

IMO, those are exactly the kind of ideas that the killers used to justify committing these murders. And I can see how easy it is for people to generate these convictions.

The facts are, these are people who apparently managed not to kill people, until their 40's and 50's.

They liked children, and dogs, and other people, and got along pretty well: otherwise they'd have been locked up decades ago

I think it's much more realistic to try to understand how people can somehow get to such extremes of thinking and action, not only to get a group of people to agree to kill two mothers, but to somehow fail to consider the consequences for themselves if they got caught.

I haven't been posting, but I noticed way back, when I wrote that TA may have confessed out of remorse, people misunderstood that as feeling empathy for her victims.

That's not what I meant. Very few people feel that about someone they hate. Remorse is feeling sorry that you did something very stupid, and are now going to suffer the consequences.

JMO

 

[LetsSolvIt]

DBM: could not get C&P from last thread to work.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Thanks so much for tracking this down, @Artis. I would've never found it because I was searching for cattle hauler, cattle truck, etc. when it was a trailer! MOO

Is that believed to be an enclosed trailer? Such as for moving horses or the like? And one wonders whether that was for simply blocking a road or perhaps also a backup to haul….. I won’t include the thought. ETA….. from the NN video link I see that it is a long mostly enclosed trailer likely for either livestock such as cattle, swine, etc. or horses.

Have any pictures of the supposed ‘flatbed’ ever surfaced? MOO

 

[Howl]

when I wrote that TA may have confessed out of remorse, people misunderstood that as feeling empathy for her victims.

That's not what I meant. Very few people feel that about someone they hate. Remorse is feeling sorry that you did something very stupid, and are now going to suffer the consequences.

Such a good point. It occurred to me that TA's pathological level of seething hatred of VB is such that she'd rather spend the rest of her life in prison rather than allow VB to mother her own children.

At least that's right now. When the cell door slams shut in whichever women's prison she's sent to, she may feel differently.

 

[Artis]

You mean the killer crew are hypocrites?! Gee, I am gobsmacked. <Not!>

They fit the same mold of hateful, selfish, greedy, entitled people who will go to any length to get and do what they want. They will lie, cheat, threaten, steal, and kill and use anything they can twist to their purposes. Truly the scum of the Earth (and that's insulting scum).

MOO.

Put that way, they should have all been in government, rather than opposed to it.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Several days ago, someone posted a photo with Tifany in her high school yearbook. She was voted Most Likely to Succeed. What was her maiden name used in the yearbook? tia

 

[Artis]

Thanks so much for tracking this down, @Artis. I would've never found it because I was searching for cattle hauler, cattle truck, etc. when it was a trailer! MOO

You're very welcome and it was bugging me, too, because I knew I'd seen it on TV. I misremembered it as one of those cattle trucks. It's this trailer that I could easily see as having been parked across the road to block it.

 

[JulesinOz]

Thanks for this, too.

This is kind of an eye-opener. TA was certainly dead serious about this child custody stuff, willing to spend money on a very famous defense lawyer in Oklahoma for a pretty low-level child custody case.

I'm assuming you've never been involved in a custody case. I can assure you--when you're in the middle of fighting for you and your child, there isn't anything about it that feels low-level.

It's so easy to lose perspective.

Many times the family court system is used by people to punish and bully a parent.

Having social workers probe every aspect of your life, people making assumptions based on nothing but someones accusation and having to defending yourself against outright lies and half-truths while being dismissed by people who have all the authority but very few facts can drive you to the brink of total breakdown.

It's clear to me that VB was a strong and devoted mother. It takes a lot out of you to keep fighting when you feel the deck is stacked against you. Everything about this case is so very tragic.

 

[legomonster]

Bringing over Error505's post from the previous thread:

"Tifany’s attorney who handled the custody case regarding the grchildren was Stephen Jones, infamous for having represented Timothy McVeigh, OKC bomber. What chance does a young country girl, with limited finances, stand when it comes to fighting a custody battle with an attorney of his notoriety? Very slim chances of prevailing, and expensive even pursuing. I’ve got to really hand it to that young mom, she tried hard and didn’t give up. I’m sure TA thought she would give up! Here’s an interview Chris Cuomo did with Stephen Jones on Wednesday of this week."

I was browsing HBO last night and a new documentary about the OKC bombing was suggested to me that I ended up watching. It's "An American Bombing: The Road to April 19th."

TA's custody attorney, Stephen Jones, was interviewed at length about McVeigh. The documentary covered the roots of McVeigh's beliefs and his possible connection to a rural Arkansas extremist group. Lots of parallels between the beliefs and motivations of those featured in the documentary and God's Misfits, IMO. If you have HBO/Hulu, I highly recommend it.

Here's the trailer on YouTube:

I'm confused because Tifany purposely never filed for custody of the grandchildren until all her methods/ploys of keeping the children away from Veronica and even Wrangler ran out, (i.e. Wrangler getting arrested and the decision to give joint custody in 2022 to Wrangler and Veronica, and unlike Wrangler, Veronica didn't give in to Tifany and continued to show up for time with her children no matter how many times Tifany made this difficult for her, cancelations, being late, accusations, Tifany's attempts to negatively influence everyone about Veronica and even her son, Wrangler and still Veronica complied completely until she could and did file for sole custody) so is this the lawyer Tifany hired when she did eventually file for custody years later because I thought that was sealed? Did they unseal this? I guess I don't see significance of him being her attorney for custody other than a last ditch effort by Tifany to pay top price at that time for his famous name on the custody paperwork because the custody battle all these years was between Veronica and Wrangler's seperate attorneys? Excuse my lack of sleep and ignorance if I'm wrong, still trying to save this pupper. Thank you everyone. I'm excited to catch up, I've missed all the updates. I'll delete this if I'm completely wrong, thank you.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for this, too.

This is kind of an eye-opener. TA was certainly dead serious about this child custody stuff, willing to spend money on a very famous defense lawyer in Oklahoma for a pretty low-level child custody case.

Low level?

Who has custody of small children is high level in custody cases. This is the main thing.

 

[Error505]

Bringing over Error505's post from the previous thread:

"Tifany’s attorney who handled the custody case regarding the grchildren was Stephen Jones, infamous for having represented Timothy McVeigh, OKC bomber. What chance does a young country girl, with limited finances, stand when it comes to fighting a custody battle with an attorney of his notoriety? Very slim chances of prevailing, and expensive even pursuing. I’ve got to really hand it to that young mom, she tried hard and didn’t give up. I’m sure TA thought she would give up! Here’s an interview Chris Cuomo did with Stephen Jones on Wednesday of this week."

I was browsing HBO last night and a new documentary about the OKC bombing was suggested to me that I ended up watching. It's "An American Bombing: The Road to April 19th."

TA's custody attorney, Stephen Jones, was interviewed at length about McVeigh. The documentary covered the roots of McVeigh's beliefs and his possible connection to a rural Arkansas extremist group. Lots of parallels between the beliefs and motivations of those featured in the documentary and God's Misfits, IMO. If you have HBO/Hulu, I highly recommend it.

Here's the trailer on YouTube:

BBM
Thank you for bringing this post over! I agree with you on the similarities of the extremist groups. I’ll watch the documentary too. Thx for the link! MOO

 

[Cedars]

I'm assuming you've never been involved in a custody case. I can assure you--when you're in the middle of fighting for you and your child, there isn't anything about it that feels low-level.

It's so easy to lose perspective.

Many times the family court system is used by people to punish and bully a parent.

Having social workers probe every aspect of your life, people making assumptions based on nothing but someones accusation and having to defending yourself against outright lies and half-truths while being dismissed by people who have all the authority but very few facts can drive you to the brink of total breakdown.

It's clear to me that VB was a strong and devoted mother. It takes a lot out of you to keep fighting when you feel the deck is stacked against you. Everything about this case is so very tragic.

Thanks for your post. IMO, custody often brings out our fierce animal instinct to protect our young.

It reminds me of that story of Solomon - he said he would cut the baby in half so both mothers would get a share...and gave the baby to the woman who would rather the baby be cared for by another, as long as still alive.

JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

Is that believed to be an enclosed trailer? Such as for moving horses or the like? And one wonders whether that was for simply blocking a road or perhaps also a backup to haul….. I won’t include the thought. ETA….. from the NN video link I see that it is a long mostly enclosed trailer likely for either livestock such as cattle, swine, etc. or horses.

Have any pictures of the supposed ‘flatbed’ ever surfaced? MOO

Yes, the white trailer is enclosed. Here is a photo of it being towed, from video at the link below.

‘God’s Misfits’ group at center of Kansas missing moms case

The women, last seen March 30, were involved in a contentious custody dispute.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[Error505]

Yup.....

Adams and Cullum were described in the new affidavit as having "a history of violent interactions, including death threats and intimidation against individuals who disagree with their ideas."

At the time of his arrest, Cullum had a rifle, ammunition, body armor and a go-bag prepared at his residence, according to the affidavit.

"Both Cole Twombly who was openly armed, and Cora Twombly confronted law enforcement officials in the State of Texas in an attempt to interfere and intimidate witnesses cooperating with law enforcement," according to the affidavit.

MSN

Tad Cullum had his bug out bag ready to run! I wonder if his judge friend helped convince him otherwise? MOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

At the time of his arrest, Cullum had a rifle, ammunition, body armor and a go-bag prepared at his residence, according to the affidavit.

MSN

These 4 sat and waited to be arrested for two weeks/14 days knowing they were being "looked at". Cullum was prepared to run.

So, with three of them appearing to have the funds for a sudden, large vacation, why did they all sit and wait?

 

[Cedars]

I'm confused because Tifany purposely never filed for custody of the grandchildren until all her methods/ploys of keeping the children away from Veronica and even Wrangler ran out, (i.e. Wrangler getting arrested and the decision to give joint custody in 2022 to Wrangler and Veronica, and unlike Wrangler, Veronica didn't give in to Tifany and continued to show up for time with her children no matter how many times Tifany made this difficult for her, cancelations, being late, accusations, Tifany's attempts to negatively influence everyone about Veronica and even her son, Wrangler and still Veronica complied completely until she could and did file for sole custody) so is this the lawyer Tifany hired when she did eventually file for custody years later because I thought that was sealed? Did they unseal this? I guess I don't see significance of him being her attorney for custody other than a last ditch effort by Tifany to pay top price at that time for his famous name on the custody paperwork because the custody battle all these years was between Veronica and Wrangler's seperate attorneys? Excuse my lack of sleep and ignorance if I'm wrong, still trying to save this pupper. Thank you everyone. I'm excited to catch up, I've missed all the updates. I'll delete this if I'm completely wrong, thank you.

I think you're correct. I'm not clear about it, but normally custody issues are between parents...
JMO

 

[Artis]

I agree, a sense of proportion frequently gets lost in the aftermath of these kinds of arrests.

IMO, the world is not made up of people (us) who are completely pure, angelic beings who have no narcissistic tendencies, have never acted even remotely hypocritocally, etc, and then those others (them) who are evil incarnate through and through in every aspect of their nature.

IMO, those are exactly the kind of ideas that the killers used to justify committing these murders. And I can see how easy it is for people to generate these convictions.

The facts are, these are people who apparently managed not to kill people, until their 40's and 50's.

They liked children, and dogs, and other people, and got along pretty well: otherwise they'd have been locked up decades ago

I think it's much more realistic to try to understand how people can somehow get to such extremes of thinking and action, not only to get a group of people to agree to kill two mothers, but to somehow fail to consider the consequences for themselves if they got caught.

I haven't been posting, but I noticed way back, when I wrote that TA may have confessed out of remorse, people misunderstood that as feeling empathy for her victims.

That's not what I meant. Very few people feel that about someone they hate. Remorse is feeling sorry that you did something very stupid, and are now going to suffer the consequences.

JMO

That's a very thoughtful post, Cedars. If seemingly ordinary people didn't do these kinds of things, this forum wouldn't exist. These people are just the little fish in a world run by similar types who are more successful and more powerful. Those at the top kill, too, but don't get their own hands dirty.

How much they like dogs or kids or whatever is relative, though. Their occupations treat sentient beings as products, which is significant to me and tells me a lot about someone. We have people here who openly discussed murdering other people with their children. I'm sure they claim to "love" those children but, like I say, it's relative and limited to whatever "love" means in their dark realities.

Also, when thinking gets strange, it's like corrupted files in a computer and the errors become exponential. Without self introspection and basic understanding of something as profound as "Go and sin more", one corrupt thought or act turns into a hundred and a hundred into a thousand. Whatever level of bad actor we're talking about, they all have their shields and justifications. With this crew they used Jesus, with the big fish it's their position in the establishment. These four (?) probably bashed the victims heads in with hammers and others drop bombs. My point being that it's really all much worse than people realize or recognize.

 

[Megnut]

Re-asking the obvious-- why didn't they just drive the KIA to their intended burial site? 8.5 miles..... cameras to bypass?

Just what exactly was their plan, regarding the vehicle?