Cal-Sag Channel Search

***Gory Alert***
**Stacy's Family and Friends Do Not READ***

I've put off for a long time posting what I know about pool chlorine and what it does. It's not pleasant and would actually create more of a mess. First I've been around pools all my life and my daughter was a lifeguard for many years at several municipal pools.

Most municipal pools use a preloaded chlorine cartdridge in their filter systems. The pools my daughter worked at had 10lb buckets of powdered chlorine to add if there was human waste such as vomit or poop. And at that, they only used about two cups of it. My daughter says no way no how does a private party have a need for 30 gallons of chlorine. She actually was surprised to hear you can just walk in off the street and buy that much.

You know when you walk into an indoor pool and you smell what you think is chlorine and it burns your eyes? It's actually an amonia byproduct created when chlorine breaks down human waste. The reaction is very gaseous. A dead body would be considered human waste. So you can imagine what the smell would be like and what kind of matter would be left behind. Then there is a gaseous situation that would be developed from a body sealed inside a barrel or container with chlorine in it. Which BTW, my daughter said would only take a small amount, and not 30 gallons. My daughter said it wouldn't explode, but rather eventually break open the container. And she said god help the person who opens the container if it's still sealed.

So her and I went back and forth as to the benefits of disposing of a body this way and it just wouldn't be effective. Drew would literally be creating a hazmat hazard. It would take too long to do it's job. It would leave behind a dangerous smelly, slimy mess. And the container would eventually break open exposing the contents.

What neither of us can figure out is why Drew bought 30 gallons of chlorine. A better use would be to clean up machinery or whatever method was really used to dispose of Stacy. Are we sure Drew bought chlorine?

I thought that is what the pool man said DP ordered.. not sure where I read that tho.

lionheart said:

Well isnt that something.. DP attorney said that DP financial records show he did not purchase any pool chemicals.. Did the pool man not go to police and say that DP bought one??????????? gesh somebody tellin a story LOL

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So his client doesn't have the ability to spend cash? What, is Drew alergic to paper money?

I was thinking maybe it wasn't chlorine. IIRC, The search warrant mentions pool chemicals. So I did some research and found hydrochloric acid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

(snip)
pH Control and neutralization
A very common application of hydrochloric acid is to regulate the basicity (pH) of solutions.
OH− + HCl → H2O + Cl− In industry demanding purity (food, pharmaceutical, drinking water), high-quality hydrochloric acid is used to control the pH of process water streams. In less-demanding industry, technical-quality hydrochloric acid suffices for neutralizing waste streams and swimming pool treatment.

I also remembered that pools drain and clean the walls with a chemical to remove calcium, stains and other matter that collect on the walls. Not sure what they use for a pool. A lye type product? Below is what I found at Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide

Tissue Digestion
This is a process that was used with farm animals at one time. This process involves the placing of a carcass into a sealed chamber, which then puts the carcass in a mixture of lye and water, which breaks chemical bonds keeping the body intact. This eventually turns the body into a coffee-like liquid, and the only solid remains are bone hulls, which could be crushed between one's fingertips. It is also of note that sodium hydroxide is frequently used in the process of decomposing roadkill dumped in landfills by animal disposal contractors[citation needed].
Sodium hydroxide has also been used by criminals and serial killers to dispose of their victims' bodies.[citation needed]

ETA: Sodium Hydroxide creates heat when mixed with water. It is used for water treatment and can be bought in 55 gallon drums.

http://tridonchemical.com/water_treatment.htm

SuziQ: Back during the Peterson case, there was speculation that Scott had done the same thing to Laci's body, but he did not. The only reason to think that Drew may have is the mention of "pool chemicals" and the possible Haz-Mat truck that might be involved at the truckstop.

However, I think the simplest answer is best and that he used to barrel/box to transport the body to the water.

Greybeard said:

Well boys and girls, guess what? I just got a note from the
Very best searcher to ever drag a sonar rig.
If you live in Lockport; He is coming
To a Canal near you! Check out the following email:

Subject: How are you?>

I just read a post by Greybeard! I was alerted by several
> hits from WS on our webpage! You are right on track!
>
> I leave for Chicago Friday morning. We are part of a huge
> effort scheduled for next week. Feel free to post that I
> have been requested.
>
> Good to "see" you! BTW, we are planning a training session
> in Waukegan, IL next march and hope to incorporate a trip to
> Lake Mendota to resume the search for a missing man there.
> We have already scheduled a return to Nova Scotia to search
> for two men from separate incidents. We have driven more
> than 30,000 miles already this year on searches from
> California to Alaska to Maine and Newfoundland. It seems the
> need never goes away. Oh, we also searched for Alicia Minton
> in Arkansas - did not find her - we had to quite because our
> outboard motor gear box crashed!
>
> Anyway, good to talk to you!

Greybeard

See here for SideScan Sonar Info: http://gralston1.home.mindspring.com/Sidescan.html

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:dance: That's wonderful - I like the mention of a "huge effort." And that might be why they are hauling old cars out of the canal - to make way for more divers and the sonar people. :woohoo:

Thoughtfox, I thought the same thing until LE put it in a search warrant.

SuziQ said:

***Gory Alert***
**Stacy's Family and Friends Do Not READ***

I've put off for a long time posting what I know about pool chlorine and what it does. It's not pleasant and would actually create more of a mess. First I've been around pools all my life and my daughter was a lifeguard for many years at several municipal pools.

Click to expand...

That is the conclusion that I came to when I looked up chlorine. I also concluded that it wouldn't be practical for use in acceleration of decomp. With your explanation, I would wonder about the gas buildup and putting the barrel in water. With the gas buildup, that barrel would soon overcome the extra weight given to the barrel from the diving weights and pop to the surface.
The info about the other chemicals is interesting though. It would be interesting to find the source for the pool cleaning guy. I wonder if he said "chlorine" or if he said "pool cleaning supplies?" The fact that Cassandra said it was chlorine came from Stacy, and that is probably what Drew P told her it was.

The other theory I came to was that Drew P maybe did buy the barrel of chlorine with the sole purpose of an explanation for having a barrel on the property and handy. But if that was the case, where did he put the chlorine that had been inside? Dumped in the pool, there should be a really strong chlorine odor or flushed down the drain, again a strong odor of chlorine in the house.

On the Kathleen Savio thread, weekender posted this great site:

http://www.acandyrose.com/stacy_peterson_mysteries.htm

On the first page there is a list of people who have also disappeared in connection with Drew's family or friends. There are just too many coincidences there.

A Candy Rose is an incredible person for digging up accurate information.

How far will the investigation go to drag up solutions for the lengthy list of poor people who knew DP.


IF IF the trucker who is not being called a liar, like the other fellow, actually had a given location for transporting a 'package' AND AND AND

IF IF IF Morphey was involved more than WE currently know, BUT that LE has more specifics of location for Stacy, Morphey just may be in protective custody SOMEWHERE.

THEN THEN this just might bring two pieces of the puzzle together that brought this intensive sonar search into play.

.

Camper said:

IF IF the trucker who is not being called a liar, like the other fellow, actually had a given location for transporting a 'package' AND AND AND IF IF IF Morphey was involved more than WE currently know, BUT that LE has more specifics of location for Stacy, Morphey just may be in protective custody SOMEWHERE. THEN THEN this just might bring two pieces of the puzzle together that brought this intensive sonar search into play.

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I think we're down to one trucker who lied.

mysteriew said:

That is the conclusion that I came to when I looked up chlorine. I also concluded that it wouldn't be practical for use in acceleration of decomp. With your explanation, I would wonder about the gas buildup and putting the barrel in water. With the gas buildup, that barrel would soon overcome the extra weight given to the barrel from the diving weights and pop to the surface.
The info about the other chemicals is interesting though. It would be interesting to find the source for the pool cleaning guy. I wonder if he said "chlorine" or if he said "pool cleaning supplies?" The fact that Cassandra said it was chlorine came from Stacy, and that is probably what Drew P told her it was.

The other theory I came to was that Drew P maybe did buy the barrel of chlorine with the sole purpose of an explanation for having a barrel on the property and handy. But if that was the case, where did he put the chlorine that had been inside? Dumped in the pool, there should be a really strong chlorine odor or flushed down the drain, again a strong odor of chlorine in the house.

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I think the barrel never contained chlorine, but Drew lied to Stacy. Stacy unaware told Cassandra it was chlorine when it could have been plain water inside of it.

Trino said:

I think we're down to one trucker who lied.

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Yes...we only know they debunked ONE of the truckers' stories at this point. No mention of the other two.

So what's going on with the search? I thought there were cars that had to be pulled out etc etc. Maybe I missed something between all these threads!

LOCKPORT -- A police source slammed the state police orchestrated search for Stacy Peterson in the Chicago Ship and Sanitary Canal Wednesday.

"Yesterday was a complete waste of time," the source said Thursday.

The source said the seven-hour effort ended with zero cars moved away or hauled out of the water.

"They thought they would be able to hook onto these cars and pull them out," the source said.

But the cars came apart under their own weight and fell back into the water.

"The only thing they moved out of that canal was part of a T-top and the skin off one of the doors," the source said.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/685458,4_1_JO07_PETERSON_S2.article

A police source, as in BBPD? I've seen cars pulled out of the water after years and it's worked fine. How were these searchers supposed to know the cars wouldn't hold up?!

If that's coming from BBPD (the "source") then I suspect there might be more in the canal than we think....

From the sounds of it, it looks as though this clean up might be long overdue. Hard to tell what (or who) they might find in there.

Also from the link above:

State police had approached the Army Corps of Engineers about removing debris for them. The source said the Corps has its disposal a special barge that effectively complete the job, but will not dispatch it unless the state police or another government agency agrees to pay for the work.

The source said this is slated to happen next week, and the state police have asked other agencies to kick into a collection to pay off the Army Corps of Engineers.

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So it isn't like they plan to just stop here- they tried and it didn't work so they plan to go another way.

mysteriew said:

From the sounds of it, it looks as though this clean up might be long overdue. Hard to tell what (or who) they might find in there.

Also from the link above:


So it isn't like they plan to just stop here- they tried and it didn't work so they plan to go another way.

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My Gosh, that is what I was thinking, too! How MANY bodies or missing vehicles are really in that canal?! They need to drain it while they are at it and clear that entire channel. Sheesh! They can do it...we watched them do it when the bridge collapsed.

SeriouslySearching said:

My Gosh, that is what I was thinking, too! How MANY bodies or missing vehicles are really in that canal?! They need to drain it while they are at it and clear that entire channel. Sheesh! They can do it...we watched them do it when the bridge collapsed.

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They're all bickering as to who is going to pay for it!
They can do it like you said SS.

Because of the cost, I don't blame them for trying it the way they did first. But since it didn't work, they do need to go the route with the army.