2010.04.23 Vacuum Cleaner Forensics

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I think Cindy dumped the Vacuum cleaner as soon as she realized what it contained, and bought another from JC Penney.
She was very evasive when directly asked ( and never would agree) to produce the receipts for her purchases there. LE were not just interested in her shopping habits out of idle curiosity.
She was replacing something in her home that would reveal the truth about KC that much was obvious. WE shall find out eventually.

I thought the exact same thing about the receipts she lied about!! I think that is something LE hopefully checked out. They must have done that and if not, they should be slammed for not! It will all come out , if they even have a trial? UGH!!!:woohoo::woohoo:
 
Okay, thank you. Dr Vass did not state that he found human decomp on the napkins. He stated that he found an adipocere like substance on the napkin. Could be a lot of things. Thanks

Just curious... what things could it be? TIA
 
Okay, thank you. Dr Vass did not state that he found human decomp on the napkins. He stated that he found an adipocere like substance on the napkin. Could be a lot of things. Thanks

Your welcome. He does say that the fatty ratios detected on the paper towels are quite consistent with those identified in human and pig decomposition - and that the reason for testing the towels in the first place was because of fly pupae. I realize that this is just one study, but along with the finding of the one hair indicating decomp, the smell, the air sample tests, and the stain - it all kind of comes together in making one believe that Caylee was in that trunk dead - Casey being the last person who ever saw her.

Just curious... what things could it be? TIA

Okay, folks. With much deference to Sleutherontheside, I'm going to use one of her tactics here:

Let's all pause for a brief sanity check and thread topic refresher.
While the paper towels relate to the trunk, and the trunk may or may not relate to the vacuums, there's all sorts of discussion about the paper towels on a more appropriate thread, and I'm pretty sure everyone, regardless of intelligence quotient :angel: can find it...heck, ya'll maybe even posted over there ;)

Shortly put, let's not bite that worm...I think there's a sharp hook involved and my cheek is still sore from last time...

Thank you for your time
 
Hello WS :)

I am just throwing out something here to be picked apart. I just saw(in one of the many threads I read today, I plan to find the link later)that the body farm found decomp "in the air."

What if Caylee was bagged in the garbage bag and the canvas bag right away. With Caylee being in the trunk of the Pontiac for two days(only :rolleyes: ) maybe there was not much "liquid" as decomp evidence but measured by "air." I do not understand the technicalities of what I am suggesting here.

Meaning, any vacuuming that may have been done, would not yield the sucking up of anything tangible in that sense. So, the vacuum cleaners would not have any of this type of evidence(decomp.)

Now, why there were "no hairs" found on or in any of these devices? Even if Casey never put a dead or live Caylee in the trunk of her car: I would think there would/should be transfer hairs from stuff being moved from the back seat to the trunk, clothes or swimwear for a day of play...normal living would/should put Casey and Caylee's hair all over the car and everything they own. Unless it was just washed but even then, I do not see regular cleaning getting every single hair.

I makes me think "detailing." Lee told LE, how much his dad loved to detail their cars, that he even detailed the cars of relatives who had come to visit.(IIRC). I did say above that I remembered that George went back to work after he and Cindy brought the Pontiac home from the tow yard, so...

I admit I am confused right now. I think I might just be babbling. :waitasec:

...JS...

-------------------
Chiquita your not babbling. Shades of Scott P..remember their house? You are on track.:dance:
 
Okay, folks. With much deference to Sleutherontheside, I'm going to use one of her tactics here:

Let's all pause for a brief sanity check and thread topic refresher.
While the paper towels relate to the trunk, and the trunk may or may not relate to the vacuums, there's all sorts of discussion about the paper towels on a more appropriate thread, and I'm pretty sure everyone, regardless of intelligence quotient :angel: can find it...heck, ya'll maybe even posted over there ;)

Shortly put, let's not bite that worm...I think there's a sharp hook involved and my cheek is still sore from last time...

Thank you for your time

Sorry Flourish. I think I'm the one who started us to go off topic. I will take full blame. :blushing:
 
You know, seriously, I wonder how much decomp really was on those pants? Was it a bit of splashing, or did they reek because they had been in the car for a month, or was it a bit of both. If it was both, and a splash of decomp, I don't think that would ruin a washer and dryer forever do you?

Just the thought of that is :sick: - sorry!
Anything in that smelly car would have reeked to the high heavens, just like anything sitting inside or near a hockey equipment bag will assume the smell terrible smell.

I bet she couldn't get the decomp smell out of the pants if they were only washed once. If she put them in the drier, the smell would become overwhelming. The smell would have been in the hose, tub and lint trap. Cadaver dogs would have hit on it.
 
It is my understanding that hairs, fibres etc were found by LE, as well as Dr Henry Lee when he came to look at the vehicle. The trunk was not completely free of forensic evidence at all. I am of course tempted to carry on all the O/T posts, but I am trying to never get in trouble! LOL :innocent:
 
No - not confused - just like to know for sure what a poster means, especially in this case.
I don't think I would actually use a vacuum cleaner in the trunk of my car if it stunk and had the look of things spilled - I guess because I don't think it would do any good.

Not to sound disrespectful in any way, but what you and/or I would do is not really relevant to this case. What is relevant, in this thread in particular, is that there is no evidence that the As vacuums and/or steam cleaners were used to clean the trunk. I was trying to get a feel for where you stood on this subject, and thought upon my clarifying, as per your request, that you would enlighten me with your response.
jmho
 
Anything in that smelly car would have reeked to the high heavens, just like anything sitting inside or near a hockey equipment bag will assume the smell terrible smell.

I bet she couldn't get the decomp smell out of the pants if they were only washed once. If she put them in the drier, the smell would become overwhelming. The smell would have been in the hose, tub and lint trap. Cadaver dogs would have hit on it.

RBBM
LOL great comparison there :) You've obviously done your share of hockey-stink smelling ;)

Was Dr. Lee the guy who left for lunch and never came back...or the one who will accept oranges for payment...both? :waitasec:
 
Not to sound disrespectful in any way, but what you and/or I would do is not really relevant to this case. What is relevant, in this thread in particular, is that there is no evidence that the As vacuums and/or steam cleaners were used to clean the trunk. I was trying to get a feel for where you stood on this subject, and thought upon my clarifying, as per your request, that you would enlighten me with your response.
jmho

No evidence in the vacs doesn't benefit the pros or the defense in my opinion. The trunk may not have been vacuumed at all. Or vacuumed elsewhere like a car wash, someone elses vacuum may have been used. No hairs in the vacuum prove nothing. It doesn't suggest that Casey is innocent or guilty. IMO.
 
RBBM
LOL great comparison there :) You've obviously done your share of hockey-stink smelling ;)

Was Dr. Lee the guy who left for lunch and never came back...or the one who will accept oranges for payment...both? :waitasec:

I think BOTH!
 
GA and CA must really be cleaning their homes and cars all the time and cleaning those vacuum cleaners and steam cleaners too for there to be no hair in them. Do Yorkie dogs shed? Since they have 2 dogs, 1 cat, and CA is going through perimenopause or menopause(she's mentioned hot flashes if I recall when she was talking to the police), I would think that she would be shedding more than the usual amount of hair due to fluctuating hormones.

Doesn't GA like to detail his car a lot? And CA cleans her home a lot too? They must be vacuuming all the time but who takes the time to clean out the vacuum all the time too? I wonder if GA and CA replaced the vacuums, steam cleaner, and shop vacs that were taken from their home?

CA can come over and clean my house anytime! I have a shedding dog, a shedding cat, and my long hair falls out and gets caught in the vacuum wheels and the vacuum's agitator bar. Like others I've had to take scissors and cut the hair off the agitator bar because it would clog up and the rubber belt that rotated the bar would overheat and break.
 
The documents show that the As vacuums/steam cleaners were free of any forensic evidence related to this case . If I am correct after perusing everyones responses:

Some people seem to think that they DID clean the car, and that: a) they replaced the equipment b) they cleaned the equipment c) the car was cleaned elsewhere

If any of these are true, then how would that support the decomposition evidence that was found in the trunk?

And if they did not clean the car at all, then why so little decomposition evidence found?

I am thinking this evidence, or non evidence rather, leans more in the favour of the Defense though. I say this because I dont think the As are going to be known so intimately by the jurors as they are here at WS. If anything they will be seen as grieving Grandparents whose Daughter is at risk of death. Because of this, I just dont think the jury will believe that the car was cleaned.

This is of course is just my opinion, and I do wonder if this evidence will even become applicable at trial.
IMO I think that the GA tried to clean the car. Regarding the trunk.....it would take a team with biological cleaning agents to thoroughly clean that trunk to completely remove the decomp odor and stains... and that's just my opinion.
 
KC was well acquainted with the car wash. When she picked up TonE at the airport KC told him she had brought the Jeep through the carwash earlier. Anyone think she could have taken the hose and washed out the trunk the day she showered at JG's. JG may not have been able to smell anything but KC would have because that smell would get into your nose and you'd be smelling it for hours unless you could shower. jmo
 
It is my understanding that hairs, fibres etc were found by LE, as well as Dr Henry Lee when he came to look at the vehicle. The trunk was not completely free of forensic evidence at all. I am of course tempted to carry on all the O/T posts, but I am trying to never get in trouble! LOL :innocent:

FYI, FWIW,...there was some very good posting re: Dr. Lee & CSI's recovery of additional hair earlier. My ISP is still running slow, so I'm search-challenged @ the moment, but, IIRC, Dr. Lee may have found one or two hairs, then, CSI went back through items in the garage - not necessarily the trunk - and came up w/ the add'l hairs.
 
I don't doubt for a moment that they really did use a commercial car wash facility. I was reading these threads periodically while at work & was thrilled that someone brought this up (because I couldn't post it myself).

You make a VERY excellant point: while would anyone be willing to use their own vacuums on a smell like that? I wonder how long these places keep their survellance videos? It would be interesting to view the places closest to the A residence within the time frame starting with them retrieving the car from the impound lot to the point that LE took the car away.

FWIW, the EPass and cell phone records don't support that there was much time at all for the Pontiac to be taken by a car wash, etc.

There was speculation 'bout this early in the case when the pics of the Pontiac in the CSI garage made the Pontiac look awfully clean after having been in Johnson's Tow yard for weeks, IYKWIM.

IIRC, in a few different threads...prolly 7/15 Ping thread included...we worked out the timeline of the Pontiac coming home from the towyard via EPass & cell phone records...George & Cindy's leaving the house that afternoon, etc. specifically to determine how much time either G or C would've had to do any trunk cleaning. Some thought that dumping water from a steam cleaner might've been the source for the K9 alerts in the backyard. IIRC, JWG created a stellar, multi-colored, timeline in the ping thread making this very easy to follow. In short, there wasn't a tremendous amount of time for G or C to clean the Pontiac before LE arrived.

Also...the "Events post 911..." thread referenced above, and the "Sealing Pontiac..."threads were worked out to focus on cleaning after LE left and before the car was sealed. The "Events..."thread being relatively short and coming last is a decent summary. But, in short, IMHO, there were a few very brief opportunities for some cleaning on the morning of 7/16...but, not much to support that it happened.

HTH.

ETA: Link to the timeline JWG put together :thumb: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3771249&postcount=84"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Ping Map for July 15, 2008 - Discuss that day only[/ame]
 
I dont think Caylee was ever in the trunk alive or before she was bagged (sorry) I would not expect to find much in the way of hair. I would expect them to find what they did the smells, the stains but not so much hair.
 
Last post for awhile. I promise.

New thread to document/reference the alleged replacement of the washing machine here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5109366#post5109366"]G&C allegedly replaced their washing machine - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


HTH.
 
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