CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

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..Maybe they also get "uneasy" at Xmas break...
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/308374--who-was-audrey-gleave
just looking over some old links and wondering about Al G's brother and whom he may have inadvertently given AG's email to- and about the "disappearance" of AG's Mother..

"The retired teacher was the only child to eastern European parents. Her father died and her mother “disappeared,” Allan said.

Gleave was “paranoid” because she lived alone, he said. In fact, she did not want many people to know her e-mail address and had stopped communicating with his brother after he might have disclosed it, he said."
 
PK (If I may be so bold as to shorten your screen name)--I do not want to pepper you with questions but there are four that I have pondered for months. If are are willing:

1) Did Ms. Gleave mention anything about her distant past/childhood that could be a concern ie. her father's work or her mother's odd disappearance?

2) Did she ever experience problems with the cemetery adjacent to her property ie. night time visitors or dabblers in the occult?

3) Was the sending of the "Amazing Grace" tune for the holidays typical of her or do you find that odd?

4) Did you also notice a strange disconnect between Ms. Gleave's privateness and quirkiness (which has been stated again and again in the press) and the fact that she was beloved by so many of her students? There's something discordant to me about a vibrant physics teacher in red high heels and the woman described by her friends after her death.

I appreciate any info you can share and totally respect your restrictions.

Ooops. One more....where in heckola was the bench???

Hey Missizzy,

1) It's so hard to say... AG never really talked about her past. Whenever I asked about family she would simply say that she had none and move on. Even with me, she was rarely open about her past. The only time I really remember discussing her past with her was when we went through some old McMaster yearbooks together... but she never shared anything with me about her family. It was only after her death that I learned anything about her parents myself.

2) No. I know it is a touch hard to see from the map but there was actually a decent separation between AG's house and the cemetery. There is a property and some dense forestry in between. It was virtually impossible to see what was happening in the cemetery from the house.

3) This has indeed been the subject of tonnes of interest. It honestly didn't strike me as surprising when she sent it. Although we all know that AG wasn't religious, she could definitely appreciate art in religion. For anyone who hasn't seen it, here is the link to the video she sent:
[video=youtube;TY8J35OXVxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY8J35OXVxg&feature=related[/video]

4) I suppose there is a bit of a disconnect here, but it's so hard to say because I never pictured AG as "private" just because she was so open and outgoing around me. By spending time with her I could easily see how it would be that her students would adore her... I think as she got older she just didn't feel the need to extend her "social network" but I suppose I never really felt that there was anything that catalyzed that.

5) The bench was where it always lived :)... right behind the Camaro in the garage.

Cheers,
PK
 
Quoted from PK:

5) The bench was where it always lived ... right behind the Camaro in the garage.

I'm dumbfounded - you mean AG 'entertained' friends/visitors in the garage. Perhaps the perp was someone who knew of the bench in the garage???????

QUESTION for PK:

Did AG leave the garage door open or was it closed/locked when the Camaro wasn't needed?

Thanks......
 
Quoted from PK:

5) The bench was where it always lived ... right behind the Camaro in the garage.

I'm dumbfounded - you mean AG 'entertained' friends/visitors in the garage. Perhaps the perp was someone who knew of the bench in the garage???????

QUESTION for PK:

Did AG leave the garage door open or was it closed/locked when the Camaro wasn't needed?

Thanks......
:blowkiss: Thanks so much PK for all your help. So that's where the bench was, no wonder we couldn't see it in any of the pictures.

I'll like to add a question about the bench as well: Did AG use to sit on the bench to smoke a cigarette, with the lights on, and garage door open?

I noticed in one of the screenshots from the videos, that the garage has a window. If it was dark outside, and the garage lights were "on", AG wouldn't even notice if someone was peeking through it to make sure she was alone (no dogs) and distracted. :waitasec: Problem is in that case, the perp would have arrived with no car, so that might not have been the case.
 
3) This has indeed been the subject of tonnes of interest. It honestly didn't strike me as surprising when she sent it. Although we all know that AG wasn't religious, she could definitely appreciate art in religion. For anyone who hasn't seen it, here is the link to the video she sent:
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

:( The video in question has been pulled by the Belgians.

found this other forum, where that same video had been posted Dec. 25, 2010 .... perhaps AG had been reading that forum .... here is the link:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=69367
.

Found this other video that could be the complete version (too much static though): [video=youtube;oyQkRrb-RLU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyQkRrb-RLU[/video]
 
Hey all,

Just some clarifications re: the bench. It spent most of its time sitting behind the Camaro in the entranceway to the garage. AG would spend lots of time sitting on the bench having a smoke or watching the dogs run or just surveying the property. AG virtually never allowed anyone in her home. From what I've heard, I'm actually the only one who spent extensive social time inside. Yes, LE took the bench.

It is certainly possible that AG would have sat out on the bench having a smoke with the garage door open and the light on, however, AG rarely spent time outside by herself. If she wasn't expecting a visitor she almost certainly would have let the dogs out for a run if she was sitting outside. If AG was inside and not intending to go out, the garage door would be closed.
 
PK ... Can you please tell us who provided you the exact link that AG used to send the Amazing Grace email? Which leads me to ...

Do you know why AG had 4 computers?

Were the dogs always confined in another room when you visited with AG inside the home?

And finally (for now ;)), do you have any idea why you were allowed extensive time in her home, compared to LV, who was hardly ever in the home in the 30 some-odd years she and AG were friends?
 
PK ... Can you please tell us who provided you the exact link that AG used to send the Amazing Grace email? Which leads me to ...

Do you know why AG had 4 computers?

Were the dogs always confined in another room when you visited with AG inside the home?

And finally (for now ;)), do you have any idea why you were allowed extensive time in her home, compared to LV, who was hardly ever in the home in the 30 some-odd years she and AG were friends?

Thanks to sillybilly for typing up all of my questions!!

To PK: I especially am curious about why you think no one was allowed into AG's house with the exception of yourself. It seems odd to me that AG would keep female friends out whilst letting a male friend in. (No offense to our male freinds here; it's just a thought I'm having!).:innocent:
 
I would guess that some people are more "fussy' about smoke/dogs/mess and sitting in a garage than others - and those less judgemental would be the invited guests.
 
Looking around, I happened upon this unsolved murder which reminded me of AG's case -actually made my hair stand on end somehow...
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1204444&archive=true

DRUMBO - Investigators believe new DNA evidence can identify the suspect who brutally killed an elderly woman in her Innerkip-area home 20 years ago.

Thera Dieleman, an 80-year-old widower, was beaten and strangled to death on Sept. 16, 1988. A neighbour discovered her body lying near her front door.

A $50,000 reward is being offered for information leading to an arrest in the case.

"This was a rapid and brutal attack," Ontario Provincial Police Det".
"

Reinhart's eyes reddened, recalling the day Dieleman was murdered.

"My heart dropped out," he said.

He often ran errands with Dieleman and helped her around the house after her husband's death two years before the murder.


"After 20 years you kind of put in the back of your mind, but now that it's back to life it's bringing back some sad memories," said a teary Don Downing, whose wife is Dieleman's niece.

Before settling here as a Dutch immigrant in the 1950s, Dieleman lived in Indonesia and survived three years in a death camp.

"She was a very feisty woman," Reinhart said."
"
 
Okay, finally finished catching up on these two threads. I have a few (ok, more than a few) thoughts and questions between and below.

Interests
AG was said to own 4 computers. Not surprising in this day and age. Also, what is known from a page written by a friend ( link ), she took a few web design courses (i.e., dreamweaver, photo elements, flash, etc), so she may have started out with a clunker, and moved up. Either way, I do wonder, outside of providing scripting advice for his site, if she had a private blog or web site. After all, to provide such, she'd have to understand how scripts work... have played around with them, tried different things within the context of a web page. While she may have set something up on her local computer, you can't really test stuff unless you throw it out on a server somewhere. Or host your own. I don't see her doing the latter. That would take setting up and managing a full-blown web server (i.e., installing apache, etcetera).

Notably, she seemed pleasantly surprised the man knew what baryon was, which indicates she appreciated intelligence. From the friend's post, it also sounds like she had a great sense of humor... regularly sending him jokes and Maxines. ( link ) I would argue she identified with the latter. Moreover, it seems clear she appreciated beauty as well. For example the link she sent her friend of the since removed youtube vid of Andre Rieu's rendition of Amazing Grace. ( link, h/t Hazel ) The political and computer article links she sent indicate she was very much interested in the world in which she lived.

This same friend characterized her as "so private" noting she avidly followed his late brother-in-law's blog but did not comment. I admittedly do not see that as necessarily private or reclusive for that matter. In fact, if anything, it tells us that she recognized inherent internet dynamics. For example, once it's out there, you have no control of where it goes, who reads it, and/or what they choose to do with it. This woman lived alone. To refrain from making statements on someone's personal blog is prudent. Esp if that someone is discussing an illness, providing all sorts of clues wrt not only who they are but where they live, as well as their daily routine. While there are plenty of wonderful people who surf the net, there are predators in search of their next victim as well.

Oh and, btw. The email bit the friend mentions is old school golden rule netiquette. Always bcc and always ask permission to forward email!

Regardless, all this together, indicates she was an avid internet user. Which leads me to wonder if she actively followed any online communities? For example, social networks, web forums, usenet, on-line virtual worlds? Even if she did not publicly engage, she could have privately reached out to anyone in those communities.

Social life
AG regularly engaged with her community... the coffee klatches ( link ), weekly "boxing day" rendezvous ( link ), golf ( link ), tennis ( link ), a computer club ( link ). This is hardly someone who was a recluse or hermit. Still, she also valued her privacy and therefore spent most of her social activities out. Also, if she was the hoarder some claimed ( link, h/t LilyMacBloom ), she could have been embarrassed to have visitors to her home. One thing that is interesting is that PK (btw, welcome, PK) notes they recently "spent time together tidying various rooms in her home, clearing old books, removing garbage, etc." ( link ), which would arguably support his visitor theory. But we'll get to that in a bit.

Some seem to think it's strange that her friends did not know who her other friends were. I would proffer that she loathed gossip, and likely viewed talking about other friends as that. Also, people who value their privacy, as she seemed to, will generally value their friends privacy as well. To do otherwise would seem hypocritical. And, as her friend so noted, she loathed shallow and hypocritical people. Which again, from her friend's report, and from her pov, seemed to be in abundance.

All things considered, she does not really seem to be kaczynski-like hermit material. Even though, from reports, she clearly had her quirks (i.e., the hoarding).

Body location
Reports indicate AG was found in her garage. ( link ) The dogs were inside her home. PK indicates that it would be uncharacteristic for her to be in the garage without the dogs. ( link ) I'm guessing the garage door was open. After all, there would arguably be no reason to bring them with her if it were closed. That is, unless she heard a sound in the middle of the night and went to check it out. In any event, I am also guessing that is why he thinks she knew and/or expected a visit from her attacker. After all, why leave the dogs in the house? Answer? So you don't have to hassle with them when your visitor comes by.

Body disposition
Hrab repeatedly characterizes this crime as vicious, the worst he's seen in a decade, and importantly, with a "sexual component." And this was from day one ( link ) and well before there was time for an autopsy. We know that she was stabbed multiple times. But, he never comes out and says what the "sexual component" is.

Imho, there are a numerous reasons the detective might make such a statement so early in the case. Which could involve everything from whether she was found completely nude, specific pieces of clothing had been removed and/or used to murder her, to posing, to genital mutilation, to rape/sodomy with a foreign object left in the body, to seminal discharge, etcetera. In other words, for him to so quickly characterize her murder as having a "sexual component" there had to be unmistakable signs. After all, sexual assaults, in general, are simply not definitively detectable without a pathology exam.

Considerations
This was a woman who arguably deviated from her routine. That is, she was in her garage, without her dogs, when she met her attacker. Imho, this strongly supports PK's theory that she was expecting someone. But who? A secret paramour? Someone in her immediate circle of friends? Someone she met online? Otoh, perhaps she was awakened by a noise and in her groggy state went out to the garage and was blitz attacked before she could think to bring the dogs with her.

I am admittedly skeptical of the latter, simply bc, imho, if there were someone in the garage the dogs would be pushing their way through the door ahead of her.

Either way, imho, her electronic records could provide important clues. So, I hope, at the very least, LE has computer forensic analyst looking at the computers as well as pulling her phone records. I also hope they re-question everyone, friends, neighbors... try to find out if she complained about disturbances. And, of course, dig deeper into her friends and neighbors lives to ensure they did not overlook anything in the process of "ruling them out." And this would involve everything from running full background checks, verifying how/when they met, verifying their alibis (to include pulling cell phone records for ping activity), etc. You know, thorough police investigation stuff.

Loose ends (aka, the questions)
PK, can you possibly enlighten us wrt why LE immediately noted the "sexual component"? That is, what, in your opinion, about the crime scene led them to that conclusion? Also, do you know if there were any sites she frequented? If she said anything about them. Particularly, if she ever pointed out posts/web sites she liked or sent links that were not your normal news, research articles, youtube pages? And finally, what reason did she give for the tidying bit? Or did she? That is, did you get the impression she was preparing for company? Even if she did not actually coming out and say something? Bc, the tidying bit seems like it was also a deviation in her routine.

That said, thanks in advance for providing whatever you're comfortable with and/or at liberty to disclose!
Whew! Okay, that was long winded!
 
http://johnhartig.info/12-headlines.html
This is a link that tells a great deal about AG's many skills.....probably posted in earlier thread, but worth reading about AG's computer work again..
Yeah, this is a great site and the guy is a great writer. That, and imho, it gives us a peek into more than her skills. It gives us a peek into her personality. And yes, it was posted earlier, though, I think the post was deleted. As the link showed up in the google machine but not on the thread. No matter. I hope they let us keep it this time, bc imho, it has a cornucopia of info wrt this woman as a person.
 
Perhaps AG had settled in for the night and then remembered she had not closed her garage door. When she went to close it, she encountered one or more persons attempting to steal her car and a physical altercation ensued, which led to the murder. Is there any way to know if the sexual component of the crime was carried out post mortem?

Was SL also found in her garage, which had been renovated into a photo studio?

Another theory is that AG possibly opened her door to someone whom she felt was an authority figure.

If this wasn't random, i.e. prowler, AG, I believe, definitely knew her attacker.

The above comments are jimo only.:twocents:
 
Due to xmas/new year season, prowlers are scoping out homes to break into, where they believe owners could be away for the holidays.

Apparently, this road is somewhat hidden, thus it provided a potential thief with ample obscurity. Was anything taken from the home?

imo
 
Was the murderer trying to get AG"s body into the car, drive away and dispose of her much like SV? Were her dogs going berserk and the neighbours dogs too?
The neighbours may have switched lights on and the perp might have run away not risking to drive the car down the driveway.
 
Success, I have been trying to post for a while. I have a nagging feeling all these attacks are by the same person . Forgetting age and appearance, these women AG, SV, SL have things in common. They have habits which include pets, are alone at certain times and seem to have been stalked and ambushed. they were surrounded by woods and trees.
I get this nagging feeling that the perp was trying to get AG to her car. Was it about 2. 30 in the morning? not really a time to be out and about.
 
I also have been feeling that SV, SL and AG were killed/attacked by the same person. LE did say that the SV killer would likely move.:twocents:
 
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